Class T

sntnsupermen131

havent heard hardly anything about these?
Can someone tell me pros/cons...etc?
-Cody

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class T is the refined version of class D....

class T has these improvments over class

- much lower distortion (0.05 instead of 1.0 - 1.5 ... higher / lower depending on the actual amp but htats ballpark).

- much higher damping (as a result of lower thd)

- full frequency range response. where class d amps only put out sound between 0 (or 20) and 200 (some as high as 400) hertz... class T will do the entire freq range from 0 (or 20) to infinity (usually 20,000 hertz - 30,000 hertz).

This is then coupled with the already known advantages of class D which include:

- higher efficiency ( 100 amps of current will put out 1,200 + watts, where as 100 amps of class AB power may only do 900 - 1,000 watts - depending on quality of amp).

- low prices... class D amps are cheap, in comparision to their class AB counterparts.... 1000 watts class D is a lot cheaper than 1000 watts class AB bridged.

- low impedance loads... mono D amps can handle very low impedance loads easily, while a similarly priced AB could not do that job.

- running cool ... as a functin of higher efficiency, class D amps dont let out as much heat... thus they dont overheat as quickly/often.

class T is what class D should have been from teh start. it is the "finished" product as class D was the "prototype" if u want to look at it that way. T's cost more than D's, but they're worth it.

sntnsupermen131

anything bad about it besides higher price?
do all the major brands carry them now?
whats a comparison on prices between t and d
how long have they been out?
-Cody

PoweredByDodge

bad besides the price? --- not that i know of .... yet... its new... give it 2 yrs and i'm sure someone will find something to complain about them in general, but overall.. nothing difft than any other amp.

all major brands carry them? --- no. not all major brands carry D's either... US Amps just finally started carrying a class D this year! Most better brands have strayed from class D as they didn't want to build amps with what they saw as poor quality. But the newer cleaner T's will probably entice more major brands to build these big mono amps... case inpoints -- Zapco C2k 9.0 ... 2200 x 1 at 2 ohms with like 0.0007 or some **** distortion. damping over 700. thats not bad for a class D ( T ) amp. Zapco has 3 i believe class T's. RF / MTX / JBL / Autotek / your mainstream brands wont pick them up for a little while me thinks... as the damn things are not as cheap to make as D's. look for maybe alpine to be the first "mainstream" brand to come out with a T... it seem like their style... clean... and then can get away with making it lower power due to clarity and quality and no one will **** or complain, so the price doesn't have to be that high.

prices between t and d --- well that's hard... because like i said... higher end companies are making T's right now... mainstream is making D's... so in addition to the price difference of the classes, you're also going to have the price difference between a brand like zapco / tru technology and mtx / RF. keep in mind there are also expensive D's -- xtant 1000 watter is like 700 ebay.... so prolly somethin like 1100 retail? (i could be off on that). usamps 1100de is like 1300 msrp. and that zapco 9.0 doing 2k watts is only 1600 msrp... so there's only a 300 dollar price difference there... considering that USAmps is in the ballpark of Zapco, 300 / 1600 = almost a 20% price difference, give or take. in time i'm guessing D's will be phased out of upper end mainstream gear... and we'll see T's in thier places for the same prices we see now.

how long out -- the first T i ever saw was the Zapco... but i do not know if that was the actual 1st. that came out i think last summer. tru tech has had one out for a couple months. that 1100de usamps was supposed to be a T, but i dont know what happened... some dude told me they went and subcontracted it out (i dont know how much truth to give to this story) because they weren't resting their reputation on it, they were just building a mono amp to make a cheap amp that they could sell easily in stores to get people ineterested in US amps and then later entice them to buy the "real" USamps 2 channel AB's or High Currents ... which is funny cuz they make an amp that is 2000 x 1 at 1 ohm and another thats 1000 x 1 at 1 ohm / 1000 x 1 at 4 ohms... but the 16 yr olds wont buy them because they retail for too much money and they dont understand the concept of AB amps nor even resistance.

If i had a good class T amp, and I had money to spend, I'd get two... one for the left, one for the right... pick and choose the impedance of my particular speakers so as to allow for me to get a certain amount of power to each speaker while still running mono to each side... rig up the proper crossovers, and i'd run a 1000 watt sub from 0 to 65 hertz, and two 250 watt mid-woofers from 60 - 65 up to 200 hertz all off one amp.. then do the same on the other side.... now somebody's readin this goin "but class D goes up to 200 hertz!" ... well sure it does... but it sounds like junk... over 150 it starts to get funny... and the quality of sound steadily drops up to 200... where some just peter out slowly over the next few octaves, or others just cut right out.

in theory... with the right xovers, and the proper choice of coils, a person could run an entire system off two class T mono amps... each side having a sub / mid-subwoofer / component woofer / component tweeter / rear optional.

i'd like to see that. i really really would like to see that.

sntnsupermen131

i see...
thanks
im in awe in your seemingly infinite amount of knowledge
lol
shoot if rf starts making them and they look like the type rf's ill be waiting in line
lol
well
waiting in line for some money...
but then waiting in like for the amps
lol
im broke
and i cant find the radio i want anywhere for cheaper that has the full warranty(ie not ebay)
no one carries pioneer premier
well i havent looked that hard yet
cuz i dont have the money
i got $115
then whenever my income tax check comes in
but its only like a $100
just a summer job
but thats if nothing goes wrong with my truck
im low on oil
i need to see the last time i changed my oil
cuz it looked kind of ugly
but i dont think it was that long ago
i need washer fluid too
and maybe a new motor for the wipers
chevy has a problem with that
they quit working on me yesterday
they did it one time driving behind an 18 wheeler pouring down raining
i was driving by his tail lights
not good
-Cody

sntnsupermen131

well after i said that i couldnt find the radio for less i got myself interested and looked around
$630 @ onlinecarstereo and 1-computerdesks.com
$600 @ carmedia1.com
i wonder if onlinecarstereo or 1-computerdesks will beat it...hmm
carstereotime would if they carried it...damn
-Cody

PoweredByDodge

dude if u ever wanna drump a load of money on an amp... check out tru tech....

www.trutechnology.com

the copper C7 looks liek one of the cleanest amps god i ever put on the earth...

and the Sledge Hammer does a sick 4000 x 1 and like 0.005% thd with a damping factor of near 1,000 if not better, these amps are severely UNDER-rated (gotta love high power class AB mono amps) ... John Fairchild signature no less. (I'm assuming that's the same Fairchild of Fairchild Semi-Conductors).

i was told a price on the sledge hammer once... i laughed... thought the guy was kidding me... and then he told me that was "at cost"... and i puked. Put it this way Zapco is "economically priced" in comparison.

600 bucks on a deck seems pretty harsh tho man... i thought u had a good deck already?

i'd say try caling pioneer and schmooze one fo their reps / techs into letting u get one cheap, but they're nto very persionable there... see RF / MTX / Polk, if you call up, and you schmooze, and ****, they may cut u a deal straight from the factory or the re-furb stack.... but these huge **** companies like pioneer / JBL dont want to have anything to do with you... getting a tech on the phone is like trying to charm a snake out of a basket...its difficult to do, and when u finally do get it to come out, you end up regretting u ever put in the effort in the first place and just want it to go away before it friggin bites u and gives u the "stupid" virus.

i keep wanting to get that new alpine but i'm not paying these sick prices.... they want 280 at circuit city on "concessions" that theysell to the employees at. damn thing retails like 500, u'd think cost woudl be less than that. i think cost actually is less, but they've started to hepp up concessions prices cuz they're losin money -- they fired all their commission employees and went to hourley pay across the country.


i paid 175 for my 7863/4 --- was 449 retail... if i cant get this 9815 for 200, i'll wage war until i do.

CPHILHOWER

PBD, I put my RF Punch 800.2 on Ebay yesterday. I have one bid for $150 + 15 UPS shipping. Hopefully it will hit $200. Sound Domain has yet to ship the Power 550X. Ordered it on Friday. When I finally see that amp would be nice. Then I will place the Punch 600.4 on Ebay as well. Today, I was bored. So I took some leftover 4 gauge wire and ran it from the fuse distribution block to the cap on the Punch 600.4. Did both power and ground leads. In anticipation of the Power 550X. Before I had 8 gauge wire. Also replaced the 2, 8 gauge power and ground wires on the BD500. When I replace the Punch 800.2, I just reused the existing wires. Now I have 4 gauge from the distribution block to the cap and the BD500. Before, I just had 4 gauge to the cap and 2, 8 gauge Power and Ground leads from the cap to the 800.2.
Chris

PoweredByDodge

you're too nice Chris -- i would have started that auction at 2 or 225.


if u want a busted amp to play with - u can have hte JBL for 25...lol... notice how the price is going down ... down... down... slowlly...lolol.


4 gauge lines help --- 8 guage is for preschoolers or to be used as speaker wire... lol

actualy if u read the manual on the 500bd, i think u'll find in there it actually states that it "demands" 4 gauge wire.

u gotta get me some pics of u're car man... i like know the thing by heart now --- would like to see some good pics when u get around to it.

cody bare-ed all...now its ure turn...haha...

(and they wonder when it wil be my turn... soon.... soon... i need a camera.. and two days of good weather and a jig saw).

CPHILHOWER

PBD, Check Crutchfields website. Mine is under Road Tests. Chris Philhowers Escape. Those are old photos. They dont show the San Jose, Dayton DSQ 12.4 subs or the BD500. I dont have the 6*9's anymore. I can send you photos. However I have a 56k PCI modem. My camera takes JPEG photos. Would take all day just to transmit. I also have some mods under the hood.
Basically, I just used the wiring from the old amp. Just replaced the wire from the cap to theBD500. And just changed the wiring from the fuse box to the cap on the stereo amp along with the ground lead.
Chris

PoweredByDodge

oooh yyaaaa... i remember this car... we ragged on u for the 6x9 boxes... hehehe (which is kinda dumbof me since i actually did a sorta similar ghetto-trick).

good lookin little suv man. i love the sub box.

CPHILHOWER

I still have the box. Its not in use at the moment. I have the 2 12" Dayton in now. Actually have more trunk space now. Just need to find grills that will work with the 19mm X-Max. The pair I have got launched. It was kinda funny when it happened. Was demonstrating the stereo problem to a local shop when it happened. They are press-on fine mesh grills.
The other thing they got wrong in the article is that I used 2 gauge wire from the battery. And that I have the Orange Optima battery. Punch Bass knob is in the "Cubby hole" in the dash. In front of the center console. Aside from my "Gremlin" I cant complain. Did it all myself. I am not an Electrical wizard. Just know enough to not get in trouble.
Chris

PoweredByDodge

well the fact that u knew enough to use 2 gauge from the battery to the cabin instead of 4 gauge for those large amps is enough to make u an electrical genius in comparison to the other 93.7% of people in car audio.

CPHILHOWER

PBD, I just got two 12" grills from a local stereo shop today. A pair of AudioBahn press on in black. Didnt have time to check if the cone will hit. They said it wouldnt. Hopefully not.
Chris

PoweredByDodge

press on like double sided tape kinda press on? i didn't know they made grills like that.

Jstas

Originally posted by CPHILHOWER
PBD, I just got two 12" grills from a local stereo shop today. A pair of AudioBahn press on in black. Didnt have time to check if the cone will hit. They said it wouldnt. Hopefully not.
Chris

You will find out soon enough with press-on grills. Most likely they will fly across the car if the sub hits them.

CPHILHOWER

These have a mounting ring that sits under the speaker. And I just pushed the grill on. Sorry for the confusion.
Chris

PoweredByDodge

Originally posted by CPHILHOWER
These have a mounting ring that sits under the speaker. And I just pushed the grill on

thats kinda nifty... i need a grille for a 10" but its gotta be one that screws on ... cant get under the lip of the sub (too lazy to pull it out and i dont think i could get the box to reseal properly anway).

so i'm left hunging for an "el cheapo" that'll fit somewhere.

CPHILHOWER

The place is called Audio Depot by Boomer McCloud. Only charged me $45 for the grills. Cheaper than most places for these High X-Max grills. I asked them about my "Gremlin". They think maybe the amp is cutting out when it hits a certain freq. Said something about Ohm's changing with Freq. Maybe its dropping too low on the certain notes. And that is causing the amp to cut out for a moment. RF are supposed to have a fast reset according to them. Whenever Sound Domain decides to ship would be nice. I am about ready to call them them and ask "Whats up?.
Chris

CPHILHOWER

PBD, Guess what I just found out today. The Power 550X is Back Ordered. Now I need to find another source. Any ideas? I just have Bad Luck anymore.
Thanks.
Chris

sntnsupermen131

www.carmedia1.com
www.onlinecarstereo.com
www.carstereotime.com
all with full warranty and i believe all have free shipping
car stereo time will beat any price
-Cody

CPHILHOWER

Sntnsupermen131. Thanks. I found a couple on Ebay. All of them about $210 to $215 + shipping. I just bid on the one. Hopefully I can get one cheap. Any ideas about my "Gremlin"? The only one I heard that could make any sense is what AudioDepot told me. They think the amp is momentarily shutting off when the tweeter ohms drop too low. They also said that RF amps have a quick reset. Which sounds plausible. I seriously doubt I have a short. Because of the infrequency of the problem.
Chris

CPHILHOWER

Well all, I finally got the Power 550X yesterday. Had to order it from Etronics.com. Only took a day since they are in NY city. Changed it over this morning. Would you belive the amp makes the same power as the old Punch 600.4. But it sounds a little louder. Total cost with shipping $245. I did notice that my voltmeter was dropping a little faster. or maybe just because I drove to the back of the apartment complex to make the gain adjustments. Now I am running about 1000 watts rms total. 674 subs, 360 to stereo speakers.
Chris

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and in 10 days if the stars are aligned, u will notice the damned gremlin has been expelled from the vehicle...

if not -- *straps on gun belt and string of bullets* -- gremlin busters...