Completely NEW Polk Audio Enthusiast needs help with Rear Speaker Placement, Pics inc

Nightsbane

I was an owner of a sony all in one 5.1 set for years, and recently was blessed enough to be able to purchase a nice stand alone 7.1 HD receiver and be able to replace my speakers.

I ended up settling on the CS1 for center, Monitor 50s for the fronts, and monitor 40s for the real. My existing surround speakers will stay for limited 7.1 use (since it isn't used very much on blu ray)

Here are some pictures of my setup. This first one shows the layout of my room and furniture, and the placement of my existing surrounds (I never knew that in 5.1 surrounds weren't supposed to go behind):
http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k144/moonlightfilms/audiosetup.jpg

The next two are my best guesses at where I should put the Polk 40s. I am limited because the walkway on the left side of the furniture L shape is narrow, and so they must be a little behind, but I am unsure of whether they should be angled towards the listening are like in this:
http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k144/moonlightfilms/audiosetup2.jpg

or flat against the wall like this:
http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k144/moonlightfilms/audiosetup3.jpg

I am just worried in the flat approach that if there is a rear port hole on the 40s (still waiting on them to come in) that it will be covered, and that the sound field will not be that great since they would not be facing the central listening area.

any suggestions and tips would be GREATLY appreciated! Also any tips on how to mount the 40s, I am worried they are too heavy for dry wall mounting and have never mounted in cement (right wall).

dorokusai

Photo 3 will work fine....don't lose sleep over the port.

Nightsbane

I forgot to mention then, should the speakers be flat against the wall facing IN > < or should they be flat on the left and right rides facing OUT (towards the listeners) ^ ^

Nightsbane

I should also add that my receiver I bought is the Sony DG820

Toolfan66

I see everybody saying that 7.1 is not used much on blu ray and what not, even though a blu ray says 5.1 when i play it i have 7.1 why is this? I have no problem with 7.1.


Larry.

Maybe i should ask this question on it's own tread.

cnh

Some AVRs matrix back channels even if the Blu-ray source is 5.1. Providing a faux 7.1

cnh

Hillbilly61

Welcome, Nightsbane!

I think either setup should work. I suggest giving both setups a whirl by listening to a movie with a lot of center to back channel material and see which you like the best. In the idealized single HT setting, the centers are 180 degrees to the listener's left or right. Highs are much more directional than lower frequencies, so aiming the speakers towards the listeners may result in a better experience.

leroyjr1

Photo 3 should work fine but I'd move the side surrounds a little closer forward, next to the couch.

Toolfan66

cnh wrote: »

Some AVRs matrix back channels even if the Blu-ray source is 5.1. Providing a faux 7.1

cnh

Thanks cnh..

Back to the OP Nightsbane,

Sorry man for my manners, Welcome to club polk;)As said above #3 should work fine.

Larry.

superjunior

TOOLFORLIFEFAN wrote: »

I see everybody saying that 7.1 is not used much on blu ray and what not, even though a blu ray says 5.1 when i play it i have 7.1 why is this? I have no problem with 7.1.


Larry.

Maybe i should ask this question on it's own tread.

its that fancy receiver you got Larry..:)

Nightsbane

Thanks guys! So that just leaves my above question for debate, > < or ^ ^ (speakers mounted facing forward or in. I can only put them so close to the couch because there is no room in the small walkway space at the end of the L and people will be banging their heads on the speaker itself.

dpowell

Do you have a way of setting them on something temporarily so that you can test surround effects in both configurations before committing the mounting screws?

Surround effects are supposed to be less directional so pointing the speakers directly at your listening position may give you more of a directional sound.

If you look at how Polk designs its FX series surround speakers whether they are side or rear mounted, they do not fire straight out from the wall but rather at a 45 degree angle. That might help you determine the best approach to mounting your speakers.

dpowell

Nightsbane wrote: »

....limited 7.1 use (since it isn't used very much on blu ray)

Can someone confirm this? I thought 7.1 was what most movies were trending towards but I don't have Blu Ray yet.

dorokusai

I would suggest not pointing surround sound based loudspeakers directly at your listening position.

Nightsbane

that's where I get confused, because the point to me for surround speakers has always been for direct sound, to hear a bullet wiz by and know where it went, ect., and not just to hear ambient noise and not know where it is coming from?

Nightsbane

7.1 will always have trouble becoming a standard because of the cost, and the general setup. It has been a learning process to get people willing to put up speakers behind the couch let along plan for them on the sides and behind. It's just not conducive to the average users setup, and if the minority uses it, most studios will not invest in putting it on a disk.

There are a very small amount of 7.1 movies on blu ray compared to 5.1. I don't really expect that to change a whole lot ratio wise.

dpowell

Nightsbane wrote: »

that's where I get confused, because the point to me for surround speakers has always been for direct sound, to hear a bullet wiz by and know where it went, ect., and not just to hear ambient noise and not know where it is coming from?

I would try it both ways and see which you like best. In life, the sound that surrounds you typically isnt as directional as sounds directly in front of you. This isn't so much about getting it right to someone else's standards but about what you like in your own HT environment. Experiment and place them the way you like it best!:D

kuntasensei

Nightsbane wrote: »

7.1 will always have trouble becoming a standard because of the cost, and the general setup. It has been a learning process to get people willing to put up speakers behind the couch let along plan for them on the sides and behind. It's just not conducive to the average users setup, and if the minority uses it, most studios will not invest in putting it on a disk.

There are a very small amount of 7.1 movies on blu ray compared to 5.1. I don't really expect that to change a whole lot ratio wise.

The real issue is that 7.1 is a HOME technology only, and is not used in theaters because it's unnecessary due to the room size (and use of speaker arrays instead of individual speakers). However, 7.1 in the home is useful even with 5.1 soundtracks, since the matrixed surround data for DD-EX or DTS-ES is there in the master theatrical mix and damn near every movie released in the theater now is mixed for that standard. That matrixed data is still there when the 5.1 track is encoded for BD discs.

So while there may not be a lot of 7.1 native titles on Blu-ray, damn near every recent movie will benefit from 7.1 in your home theater and will have sound intentionally placed in the rear surrounds by the original mixer/engineer. Dolby recommends using DPL-IIx Movie Mode for all titles that are in DD-EX theatrically, so just stick with that on 5.1 titles and you should be good to go.

Nightsbane

I am not a fan of a matrixing or enhanced modes at all. They are not 100% solid, and sometimes throw sounds where they should not be. It's not my thing, but that's just me. The only time I use it is with music.

kuntasensei

Nightsbane wrote: »

I am not a fan of a matrixing or enhanced modes at all. They are not 100% solid, and sometimes throw sounds where they should not be. It's not my thing, but that's just me. The only time I use it is with music.

With movies mixed before the advent of Dolby Digital EX, I would agree with you. Some even collapse to the rear surrounds completely because the left and right surrounds are largely monaural. But since DD-EX became standard in theaters, pretty much every movie is mixed with the matrixed data in the left and right surrounds, and those 5.1 tracks are what you're getting on BD discs (so in actuality they're basically non-flagged 6.1 matrixed tracks from the masters). DD-EX with a 7.1 setup merely plays the same rear surround data from both rear surrounds identically, and with a limited bandwidth.

The advantages of using DPL-IIx Movie instead of DD-EX with these soundtracks are:
1) DPL-IIx creates full bandwidth surrounds while still placing the rear surround audio in the rear surrounds where it was intended to be.
2) DPL-IIx Movie does more precise between-speaker placement across the rear soundstage by analyzing the phase/level differences between the left and right surround and placing the sounds in varying increments between the rear surrounds (i.e. a sound that is 75% in the right surround and 25% in the left surround will be panned more toward the right rear surround). This works well to simulate the effect you get in the theater of multiple-speaker arrays and does a better job of near-field steering across the rear soundstage than DD-EX in a home environment.

DPL-IIx doesn't move sounds where they shouldn't be unless the original theatrical mix was done for just 5.1 and not EX (and very few movies are anymore). It also doesn't add any reverb or effects that aren't there in the existing mix, because it's primarily a steering algorithm, not your typical DSP mode.

Nightsbane

hmmm I am not sure, I had DD EX and still have localization problems using it.

On the speaker note, is it ok to set Monitor 40's on their side? thus I could mount them on the ceiling with a higher clearance? Or should they be kept vertical?

Nightsbane

also these monitor 40s have the biwiring terminals on them, do I have to wire to all of these? If I just go to one set of terminals will I lose the bass sound from them? If I can connect to just one set, which terminals should I connect to? Just confused what wiring I need to run and how to connect it to my receiver.

apphd

As long as the jumper/shorting strap is in place and tight you only need to connect to one + and one - terminal top or bottom. Remove the strap and you need to run 2 pairs of wires to the top and bottom terminals. This is for bi-wire and bi-amp use. Speaker wire gauge is determined by the length of the run and speaker impedance. A quality 14 or 16 gauge should cover most applications. Do a search and you should be able to find one of many charts and explanations on the subjest.