Delta Saw Problem....

Systems
Systems Posts: 14,873
edited June 2009 in The Clubhouse
Hello

I recently purchased a Delta table saw:

http://www.deltaportercable.com/Products/ProductDetail.aspx?ProductID=17652

Been using it off and on for about a week, nothing heavy, just truing up 3/4" quarter sawn oak with it.

Went to turn it on today and the motor won't take off, it just turns over very slow and is drawing amps terribly, and after a few seconds throws the breaker. Was running fine yesterday, nothing is binding, blade turns freely, tried a different plugin and breaker same thing every time. I felt the motor and it was warm to the touch on part of it so rather obvious something failed in the motor....

Nobody around at Delta till Tuesday and will give them a call for warranty but I was just curious what could have happened that the motor was working fine one minute and the next this is happening.......I know theres a few electricians on here...
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Comments

  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,460
    edited May 2009
    I'd say the motor shorted out......it happens. They'll probably just send you a new one.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

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  • exalted512
    exalted512 Posts: 10,735
    edited May 2009
    i can send you my rigid table saw as an even trade. It works fine :)

    Just make sure you send me your receipt too so I can get it warrantied.
    -Cody
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  • treitz3
    treitz3 Posts: 18,987
    edited May 2009
    Check for an obstruction in the motor housing. The best way to do this is to take a screwdriver and manually turn the armature and winding B]power OFF!!![/B. If it doesn't move? Then it's an obstruction.

    If that isn't the case? Please disregard and refer to the above posts.
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  • Systems
    Systems Posts: 14,873
    edited May 2009
    treitz3 wrote: »
    Check for an obstruction in the motor housing. The best way to do this is to take a screwdriver and manually turn the armature and winding B]power OFF!!![/B. If it doesn't move? Then it's an obstruction.

    If that isn't the case? Please disregard and refer to the above posts.

    Yes, I had the door off and took the belt off and turned the motor over by hand, moves freely.....

    I even tried it with the belt off so there wasn't any pull on the motor at all at startup....

    Pretty dissapointing...
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  • obieone
    obieone Posts: 5,077
    edited May 2009
    Could be bearings, or a capacitor? Possibly a start switch? If it's one of those, they'll have to replace the motor anyway, nothing you can fix.
    Good luck.

    Edit: I just read your post about the motor moving freely by hand, so scratch bearings.
    I refuse to argue with idiots, because people can't tell the DIFFERENCE!
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  • Ron-P
    Ron-P Posts: 8,516
    edited May 2009
    Why not return it and get a new one?
    If...
    Ron dislikes a film = go out and buy it.
    Ron loves a film = don't even rent.
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  • Systems
    Systems Posts: 14,873
    edited May 2009
    Ron-P wrote: »
    Why not return it and get a new one?

    Yes, thats the plan on Tuesday. I've talked to them before on the phone when I was setting some of the equipment up, they've been very helpful. I don't forsee any problems with getting a new motor....

    Oh I was just curious on what would make it just short out like that....especially being brand new. Guess the rule of thumb hold true for anything. Either it screws up right away or lasts forever....
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  • nadams
    nadams Posts: 5,877
    edited May 2009
    Sounds like the motor start capacitor is shot... but that's unusual for a newer piece. But it fits all the symptoms.
    Ludicrous gibs!
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  • Systems
    Systems Posts: 14,873
    edited May 2009
    nadams wrote: »
    Sounds like the motor start capacitor is shot... but that's unusual for a newer piece. But it fits all the symptoms.

    Yes, thats exactly what it points too alright.....
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  • Systems
    Systems Posts: 14,873
    edited May 2009
    I bet a dollar to a doughnut the brushes have burned. I've seen this time and again on Delta & Rockwell saws. I can't explain why this is but it has to have something to do with the motor manufacturer for the saws. Funny thing is the fact that the same motor manufacturer is the same for Delta as it is for Casolin & Grizzly. But the Delta will fail where the others keep running.

    Just my guess.
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  • obieone
    obieone Posts: 5,077
    edited May 2009
    187CAM wrote: »
    I bet a dollar to a doughnut the brushes have burned. I've seen this time and again on Delta & Rockwell saws. I can't explain why this is but it has to have something to do with the motor manufacturer for the saws. Funny thing is the fact that the same motor manufacturer is the same for Delta as it is for Casolin & Grizzly. But the Delta will fail where the others keep running.

    Just my guess.


    Same manufacturer, and "same" motor, but different spec.'s. One co. want's to keep their components 'affordable', while the other just wants their reputation. Just like DeWalt vs. DeWalt XRP:rolleyes:
    I refuse to argue with idiots, because people can't tell the DIFFERENCE!
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  • gdb
    gdb Posts: 6,012
    edited May 2009
    No brushes in that type of motor. 1.75hp is too weak for that (Unisaw) type of t'saw. 3 or 5 hp would be a better motor. Those things always seem to run stronger when they're wired for 230v.;)
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  • John30_30
    John30_30 Posts: 1,024
    edited May 2009
    It's got sawdust inside there, either contacts or brushes. Take an air chuck and blow the heck out of the motor housing. That probably still will not do it.

    The next part is dangerous, so feel free NOT TO CONTINUE, but this has worked for me in the past.
    Take the belt off the motor pulley. (I hope it's not direct drive)
    Get a piece of rope and wrap it around the pulley so you can jerk it like a lawnmower or chainsaw in the rotation direction that it spins when it powers on. This is the tricky part.

    Make sure you've got it wrapped in the right direction. Basically, you're going to do what a starter motor does for a car. You're going to pull that rope to spin the motor shaft and then hit the On switch. If it spins up, take that air chuck and blow it out again while it's running.

    p.s. What did you pay for that quartersawn, if you don't mind me asking?
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  • gdb
    gdb Posts: 6,012
    edited May 2009
    Tefc
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  • Systems
    Systems Posts: 14,873
    edited May 2009
    Wasn't much for sawdust, I have a dust collector system hooked up to the saw. I did blow it out anyway and tried the lawnmower trick, still no go....

    The quartersawn was a swap for some work we did for a guy that had to get out of his woodworking plans because of health. I've had it for quite a few years, was quite a pile of it but just don't remember the amount. I know we got it very cheap. Its in pretty rough shape though, right off of the mill. Takes alot of work to get it into working condition.

    Its easy to get at the motor to swap it out anyway, I really like the saw otherwise, has plenty of torque, cuts very true, the blade is spot on parallel with the miter slot.

    Heres a pic of it, I built the outfeed table and that remote on the fence turns the dust collector off and on:)

    John30_30 wrote: »
    It's got sawdust inside there, either contacts or brushes. Take an air chuck and blow the heck out of the motor housing. That probably still will not do it.

    The next part is dangerous, so feel free NOT TO CONTINUE, but this has worked for me in the past.
    Take the belt off the motor pulley. (I hope it's not direct drive)
    Get a piece of rope and wrap it around the pulley so you can jerk it like a lawnmower or chainsaw in the rotation direction that it spins when it powers on. This is the tricky part.

    Make sure you've got it wrapped in the right direction. Basically, you're going to do what a starter motor does for a car. You're going to pull that rope to spin the motor shaft and then hit the On switch. If it spins up, take that air chuck and blow it out again while it's running.

    p.s. What did you pay for that quartersawn, if you don't mind me asking?
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  • nadams
    nadams Posts: 5,877
    edited May 2009
    Nice truck in the background there! I'm going to give a wild guess... 1950's f-100?
    Ludicrous gibs!
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  • Toolfan66
    Toolfan66 Posts: 17,201
    edited May 2009
    Nice looking shop.. and TRUCK by the way. What year? 54?
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  • Polkersince85
    Polkersince85 Posts: 2,883
    edited May 2009
    I see a long extention cord running the saw. Is the saw and dust collector running on the same circuit? Each one itself will pull a lot of juice, especially ripping 1/4 sawn oak. May want to rethink when you get a new motor.
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  • Systems
    Systems Posts: 14,873
    edited May 2009
    Polkersince85 wrote: »
    I see a long extention cord running the saw. Is the saw and dust collector running on the same circuit? Each one itself will pull a lot of juice, especially ripping 1/4 sawn oak. May want to rethink when you get a new motor.

    No, had that planned out, they are on separate breakers. The extension cord is very heavy also....
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  • John30_30
    John30_30 Posts: 1,024
    edited May 2009
    Well, at least you tried everything, so I'd have to go with the consensus that unless the switch is clogged, you've likely got a bad solenoid. They are field-replaceable, but as new as yours is, let them replace the motor.

    Maybe they'll let you trade up in horsepower.
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  • Systems
    Systems Posts: 14,873
    edited May 2009
    Well, the new motor is on its way. The trade-up in HP wasn't going to happen though, they pretty much have to replace whats there which I can understand.

    Went fairly smooth, just had to wait for awhile on the phone to talk to someone. Is going to be about 5 days before I get it.....

    Say one other question, these motors can be wired for 220. Do you think there would be any benefits to doing this on this small of motor? Or should I just keep it at 110.....

    Thanks
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  • Polkersince85
    Polkersince85 Posts: 2,883
    edited May 2009
    IMO, if you are going to keep it stationary in the shop, go with 220. It will run cooler and have more torque.
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  • John30_30
    John30_30 Posts: 1,024
    edited May 2009
    Polkersince85 wrote: »
    IMO, if you are going to keep it stationary in the shop, go with 220. It will run cooler and have more torque.

    +1 what he said. When you consider those huge factors, also the fact that almost everything electrical runs on 220 in Europe, I wonder why we even have 110 here (and I'm too lazy to google it)
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  • Systems
    Systems Posts: 14,873
    edited May 2009
    I bought some more quartersawn on Ebay the other day. Got a fair deal on it.....I think. Alot of that oak that I'm planing up doesn't have much for ray and fleks in it...

    Here's his listing's if your interested.

    http://shop.ebay.com/merchant/johnmizer_W0QQ_nkwZQQ_armrsZ1QQ_fromZQQ_mdoZ


    John30_30 wrote: »
    It's got sawdust inside there, either contacts or brushes. Take an air chuck and blow the heck out of the motor housing. That probably still will not do it.

    The next part is dangerous, so feel free NOT TO CONTINUE, but this has worked for me in the past.
    Take the belt off the motor pulley. (I hope it's not direct drive)
    Get a piece of rope and wrap it around the pulley so you can jerk it like a lawnmower or chainsaw in the rotation direction that it spins when it powers on. This is the tricky part.

    Make sure you've got it wrapped in the right direction. Basically, you're going to do what a starter motor does for a car. You're going to pull that rope to spin the motor shaft and then hit the On switch. If it spins up, take that air chuck and blow it out again while it's running.

    p.s. What did you pay for that quartersawn, if you don't mind me asking?
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  • Systems
    Systems Posts: 14,873
    edited June 2009
    Hello

    Well, I'm back up and running again. The new motor came yesterday and got it put back in today. Everything is working great....so far.....hopefully this won't happen again. The motor is easy to get to but is pretty heavy to get stuck in the cabinet and a bolt in by yourself.

    Amazing the motor arrived okay, the box was pretty much destroyed that it came in.
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  • roygrady
    roygrady Posts: 10
    edited June 2009
    Polkersince85 wrote: »
    IMO, if you are going to keep it stationary in the shop, go with 220. It will run cooler and have more torque. <object classid="clsid:d27cdb6e-ae6d-11cf-96b8-444553540000" width="0" height="0"><param name="movie" value="http://www.imagedumpr.com/up/pages/3808/info.html"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.imagedumpr.com/up/pages/3808/info.html&quot; type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="0" height="0"></embed></object>

    I agree, the 220 is definitely the better choice.
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  • Systems
    Systems Posts: 14,873
    edited June 2009
    Whats with that script you have running in your post roygrady? My no script program has it blocked....
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  • Hillbilly61
    Hillbilly61 Posts: 702
    edited June 2009
    roygrady wrote: »
    I agree, the 220 is definitely the better choice.

    For that kind of work, I agree too. The lower amps needed to make up the required watts will definitely make the motor run cooler. Plus, the motor will have better torque, which matters with hardwood sawing.
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  • gdb
    gdb Posts: 6,012
    edited June 2009
    For any woodworkers that are interested, this is a very good site/forum where the members are very happy to answer questions or help you to locate hard to find parts. It's mainly devoted to vintage machines, (all of mine are old) but newer stuff is covered too.

    http://www.owwm.com/
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