Frugal Horns in The House!

nikolas812
nikolas812 Posts: 2,915
edited May 2009 in Speakers
After 3 days and 1500 miles. The horns have arrived.





Nik



[URL="[IMG]http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj162/nikolas812/IMG_0788.jpg[/IMG]"]IMG_0788.jpg[/URL]
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  • danz1906
    danz1906 Posts: 5,144
    edited May 2009
    Sweet:D
    Linn AV5140 fronts
    Linn AV5120 Center
    Linn AV5140 Rears
    M&K MX-70 Sub for Music
    Odyssey Mono-Blocs
    SVS Ultra-13 Gloss Black:D
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  • vmaxer
    vmaxer Posts: 5,117
    edited May 2009
    They are beautiful...How do they sound??
    Pio Elete Pro 520
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    RTi 38's -4
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  • nikolas812
    nikolas812 Posts: 2,915
    edited May 2009
    vmaxer wrote: »
    They are beautiful...How do they sound??



    Different.


    Completely different from anything I have ever heard. The soundstage is the best I have ever heard with any speaker. It has some of the best bass I have heard also. Very fast and clean. It fills the entire room with sound that comes from EVERYWHERE. Its a little odd. I'm still getting used to it. So I don't know if there going to stick around yet.

    The highs are great also. But very edgy. And sometimes sounds cheap or tonally inaccurate. But I think thats because the drivers aren't fully broken in yet. I read the Fostex drivers I have (168EZ) need close to 1000 hours on them before they smooth out and sound right. So I am going to put some time on them and see if they smooth out. If they don't. They will be sold for sure.



    The bass was a little weak at first. But after some major time invested in positioning them. And putting the spikes on and removing all the batting that was inside them. They SLAM!. With 5watts. Its unbelievable. I haven't taken a SPL reading yet. But its up there.

    Over all. I'm pretty damn happy right now. I'll just have to see if the highs come around.

    Can anybody confirm my findings on the break in time for the Fostex 168EZ?





    Nick
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  • nduitch
    nduitch Posts: 316
    edited May 2009
    kudos on that TV dinner tray!
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  • nduitch
    nduitch Posts: 316
    edited May 2009
    Those are nice speakers too, congrats!
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  • nikolas812
    nikolas812 Posts: 2,915
    edited May 2009
    nduitch wrote: »
    kudos on that TV dinner tray!


    Funny.:)




    The dang binding posts are at the top of the speaker and they are six foot tall. And my cables are only 6ft in length. So I had to improvise.




    Nik
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  • nikolas812
    nikolas812 Posts: 2,915
    edited May 2009
    Just a quick correction. These are not Frugal horns. But a back loaded Terry Caine design BIB horn. BIB stands for bigger is better. If you do a search for BIB horns. You'll find plenty of info on the net....







    Nick
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  • NJPOLKER
    NJPOLKER Posts: 3,474
    edited May 2009
    I am not sure what the hell I am looking at!!
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  • leroyjr1
    leroyjr1 Posts: 8,785
    edited May 2009
    NJPOLKER wrote: »
    I am not sure what the hell I am looking at!!

    Where's the tweeter?
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  • NJPOLKER
    NJPOLKER Posts: 3,474
    edited May 2009
    Where's anything?
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  • leroyjr1
    leroyjr1 Posts: 8,785
    edited May 2009
    The wood is beautiful.
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  • Ricardo
    Ricardo Posts: 10,636
    edited May 2009
    Nice grab Nik; I've alwats wanted to listen to one of those loaded full range driver designs.
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  • nikolas812
    nikolas812 Posts: 2,915
    edited May 2009
    leroyjr1 wrote: »
    Where's the tweeter?




    These are High efficiency single driver speakers. Full range. They cover 30hz-20khz VERY well. Bass is solid and clean down to 30hz. The highs are crisp and clear.

    The tops are cut out of the top of the speaker box This loads the room by reflecting the sound off the ceiling.


    Theres a lot more to it. Just do a search and get your learn on.




    Nick
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  • SolidSqual
    SolidSqual Posts: 5,218
    edited May 2009
    These speakers have absolutely no realistic presentation, but if you've ever experimented with drugs and music you'd see these speakers create the same sensation of music attacking from all sides and shooting past you and around your head . . . just saying.
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  • nikolas812
    nikolas812 Posts: 2,915
    edited May 2009
    SolidSqual wrote: »
    These speakers have absolutely no realistic presentation, but if you've ever experimented with drugs and music you'd see these speakers create the same sensation of music attacking from all sides and shooting past you and around your head . . . just saying.


    I agree with you 100%


    I thought the soundstage was correct. Or imaging at least.


    But yes. They do some very funny things. Thats what I meant by odd in my original post. I'm still trying to decide Weather or not I like the effect. Or if it will calm down after the drivers break in.


    Either way.

    I'm pretty sure they'll be up sale though so I can fund my SDA expedition.:)





    Nik
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  • Face
    Face Posts: 14,340
    edited May 2009
    Are you sure they're wired in phase?
    "He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche
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  • nikolas812
    nikolas812 Posts: 2,915
    edited May 2009
    Face wrote: »
    Are you sure they're wired in phase?





    Yep.



    I don't think they sound as bad SS makes them out to be.. But there are different none the less...





    Nick
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  • nduitch
    nduitch Posts: 316
    edited May 2009
    there's room for like 8 more speakers on each.

    What is their sensitivity?
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  • nikolas812
    nikolas812 Posts: 2,915
    edited May 2009
    nduitch wrote: »
    there's room for like 8 more speakers on each.

    What is their sensitivity?



    95-96db


    My 5 watt amp drives them louder than I care to listen too....




    Nick
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  • unc2701
    unc2701 Posts: 3,587
    edited May 2009
    Awesome! Glad to see they survived.

    Anyhow, I don't know that I put more than 30 hours on those drivers before I accepted that the bass just wasn't going to happen in my room; 20 foot ceilings & the bass fires out the top. They're very sensitive to positioning and stuffing, so experimentation is key. Try some crazy things like face them right at each other, then slowly turn them to face the listening position. Starting at about 30 degrees off the back wall it'll begin to come together & you'll get some interesting effects. Toe out may work, too.

    Put on some female vocals & they'll really sing!
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  • nikolas812
    nikolas812 Posts: 2,915
    edited May 2009
    unc2701 wrote: »
    Awesome! Glad to see they survived.

    Anyhow, I don't know that I put more than 30 hours on those drivers before I accepted that the bass just wasn't going to happen in my room; 20 foot ceilings & the bass fires out the top. They're very sensitive to positioning and stuffing, so experimentation is key. Try some crazy things like face them right at each other, then slowly turn them to face the listening position. Starting at about 30 degrees off the back wall it'll begin to come together & you'll get some interesting effects. Toe out may work, too.

    Put on some female vocals & they'll really sing!






    Thats hilarious.


    There very strange to say the least. We've already heard some very strange things.

    But I'm about done with positioning for now.


    Your right about the bass. I have a room with 8ft ceilings and didn't work out very good. It didn't work until I got them in a room with 7ft ceilings. And after i took ALL the stuffing out. Now Freaking SLAM!!! Its unreal...





    Nick
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  • Jim Shearer
    Jim Shearer Posts: 369
    edited May 2009
    Sweet lookin' BIBs!

    You heard right about a LONG break-in time for single full range drivers. I typically expect decent performance after 400 hrs, but continued improvement out to 1000 hrs.

    I'm sure you know this, but let me comment for others in the crowd. These are a whole different world from the speakers most folks here are familiar with. The BIB was designed for corner placement, but I hear they can work OK a bit out from the corners. Moving them away from the wall will totally destroy the bass, since the upward facing horn mouth uses the walls and ceiling as an extension of the horn.

    Single full range drivers (and big planar speakers) are not everyone's cup o' tea. For those of us who enjoy their qualities, they're the best thing going. I've got BIB's on my list for next summer's builds.

    Cheers, Jim
    A day without music is like a day without food.
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  • cnh
    cnh Posts: 13,284
    edited May 2009
    So these are a single speaker design in a cabinet that 'big'. How are the highs handled? Is there really only ONE driver in there--no tweeter? And how big a driver is that?

    Also, are these sealed speakers or do they have ports? And what material is the only driver made of? Never seen a design like this?

    Thanks...

    cnh
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  • Jim Shearer
    Jim Shearer Posts: 369
    edited May 2009
    cnh wrote: »
    So these are a single speaker design in a cabinet that 'big'. How are the highs handled? Is there really only ONE driver in there--no tweeter? And how big a driver is that?

    Also, are these sealed speakers or do they have ports? And what material is the only driver made of? Never seen a design like this?

    Thanks...

    cnh

    Check out the design at:
    http://www.zillaspeak.com/bib-howtobuild.asp

    The driver in his BIBs is a Fostex FE168eSigma. Check it out at:
    http://www.madisound.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=272

    The cabinet is a tapped horn design. Think of a tapered pipe w/ the driver in the side of the pipe, rather than at the small end. Some people do add a super-tweeter crossed in at 12-15 KHz, but most don't. And that depends on the driver you choose as well. In that link above, you can see the Excel sheet to calculate a BIB for whatever driver you may choose.

    And you really do have to hear them to understand just how good they sound!

    Cheers, Jim
    A day without music is like a day without food.
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  • Face
    Face Posts: 14,340
    edited May 2009
    Single drivers do have a certain uniqueness to them. I recently heard a pair of Omega single drivers, for me they dispelled many of the myths associated with single driver setups. But they still do have their limitation and aren't for me.
    "He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche
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  • hearingimpared
    hearingimpared Posts: 21,136
    edited May 2009
    I love the color.
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  • nikolas812
    nikolas812 Posts: 2,915
    edited May 2009
    And you really do have to hear them to understand just how good they sound!

    Cheers, Jim




    This is so true. You really have to hear them.


    I have since moved them out of that room. There sitting right in front of my SDA's now so I can break them in.

    Right now they sound better than the SDA's. But given the amplification I have. Makes sense.

    They really sound good. Everything bad that was happening in the other room is completely gone. And they sound great. If they smooth out like they should I may not get rid of them. Even a little edgy I think they sound better than anything I have ever heard. The detail is amazing. I can hear finger nails scraping on the strings of guitars. I can hear the beads rolling around the inside of moroccos. Its awesome and I am really enjoying them right now...


    The bass is alos phenomenal IMO. Maybe not as low as I first thought. But damn good..




    Nick
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