need help.....battery or starter?

doggie750

OKIPOLKIE....kinda need help on w/c one is causing my geo to fail when turn on the ignition. I checked the alternator and it's charging (+13V), battery checked (+12V) with multimeter...w/c lead me to the starter would be a valid candidate. However there is no sign of hesitation during jumpstart so imo it's not the starter. In need of assistance here...thank you much.:):):)

PLS NOTE: the condition does come and go.

ben62670

Check your grounds/connections.
Solenoid could be bad also

WilliamM2

Usually the battery will read about 13.6v. Alternator reading sounds low as well, but that may be due to the battery being low and sucking up current. Any autoparts store should be able to test your battery for you.

obieone

I just had the same problem with my '02 S-10. I discovered that the rear hazards were staying on after shutting down. I tried changing out the '4-w' switch under the dash, but, it turned out to be a cruise control/ blinker switch AND relay on the column.
I had to spend $500. on diagnostics and repairs, because I CAN'T stand working on vehicles.
Good luck.

doggie750

ben62670 wrote: »

Check your grounds/connections.
Solenoid could be bad also

thanks ben, i did a major tune up about 2 weeks prior to the 1st symptom. Could it be my new comers: cable, plugs, dist cap,and rotor? pls advice.

WilliamM2 wrote: »

Usually the battery will read about 13.6v. Alternator reading sounds low as well, but that may be due to the battery being low and sucking up current. Any autoparts store should be able to test your battery for you.

thanks will, that's about right 13.6v on my multimeter and imo it's fine. no sign of weak electrical like lights, horn, dashbrd, etc...

thsmith

ground cable from battery, check both ends

sucks2beme

Have a local parts place test the battery. They can test the alternator,too.
But you'll have to pull it from the vehicle.
When it doesn't start, what are the symptoms?

TNRabbit

thsmith wrote: »

ground cable from battery, check both ends

Also check/clean all your grounds to frame & engine.

ShinAce

TNRabbit wrote: »

Also check/clean all your grounds to frame & engine.

Ditto...

Check all connections and make sure they're clean, especially the battery posts/terminals.

Erik Tracy

I had intermittent starting problems with my Toyota pickup....sometimes I'd turn the key and nothing would happen, then I'd try again and it would start.

It finally wouldn't start at all - tried jumping it and nothing. Battery read full charge so it wasn't the alternator or the battery. Turning the key wouldn't even give that 'click click' sound.

It ended up being the starter...it finally gave up the ghost.

If the battery is being charged and holds a charge and it is intermittent - could be your starter is going bad.

ckphoto

Have someone turn the key and give the starter a whack with a hammer if it is the starter it should start. It is a easy job to do yourself 30mins. to a hour tops.

Good Luck

sucks2beme

It's all a WAG. This used to drive me crazy. A clamp on ampmeter,
and a load tester fixed that. I at least now know if the alternator
is putting out a low output, if the starter's drawing too much, or
if the battery isn't handling the load of the starter. We can all guess
all day long remotely. Time to pull stuff out for testing at the local
Autozone. After that, it's time for a run to the shop. A random short will
drive you crazy.
It's always so much easier when the stuff just dies. Dead is easy to troubleshoot.

Systems

Just because the battery shows a good 12v and the alt is charging doean't mean you don't have a bad cell in the battery. Have the battery load tested.

BIZILL

187CAM wrote: »

Just because the battery shows a good 12v and the alt is charging doean't mean you don't have a bad cell in the battery. Have the battery load tested.

i was just going to say close to the same. my yellow top optima showed good voltage but what a tester won't do is show the battery's behavior under load. my issue was my battery. another $175 yellow top and i'm good to go again.

my GUESS is it's your battery.

Hillbilly61

187CAM wrote: »

Just because the battery shows a good 12v and the alt is charging doean't mean you don't have a bad cell in the battery. Have the battery load tested.

I tend to agree. A bad battery will have the proper voltage, but not the storage amps. Being bad has nothing to do with measured volts at full charge, unless the battery is completely toasted (then the voltage will stay low). It will just run down real fast, like when the engine is cranking. If over 5 years old, just replace and see what happens. You are going to soon need to replace it at that age anyway, so if that is not the problem, you are not out anything.

The above will also explain why the engine will turn over when on a charger. The engine starter is getting its required current from the charger. Batteries gradually fail, but the failure is progressive over time.

ddddyyyy

I agree with doggie750












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BIZILL

reported. freaks.

LessisNevermore

Could be the ignition switch, not uncommon.

doggie750

Mechanic Oriented HELP...


My geo prism '96 wouldn't start yesterday but was able to from a jump start, another parent from preschool helped. Was in the parking lot with 3 babies onboard....and all hell went loose. IMAGINE the pain I have to suffer after commuting for freaking hours in traffic. Since you polkies are mechanically inclined, my question to you is this....The battery is new (MAJORITY IN THE FORUM had advised me to replace it) and my guess would be a faulty starter? Would a faulty starter w/ the aid of jump start will start a car? I know it has something to do with electrical and just couldn't figure out WTF is causing it. Usually it happens after a long drive (at least 60+ miles) during the day.

My head believed it's not the battery/ starter nor the alternator, it's a electrical module mounted somewher on the wall..Please advice.

madmax

If you have a starter solenoid problem often times tapping it with a hammer helps get the last few starts out of it.
madmax

sucks2beme

Time for pro help. Get it in for a diagnostic check.
Bottom line- get them to load check everything and check
connections. No more guessing-time for checks with real test
equipment. We can talk this one to death. Time for action.

Jstas

doggie750 wrote: »

Mechanic Oriented HELP...


My geo prism '96 wouldn't start yesterday but was able to from a jump start, another parent from preschool helped. Was in the parking lot with 3 babies onboard....and all hell went loose. IMAGINE the pain I have to suffer after commuting for freaking hours in traffic. Since you polkies are mechanically inclined, my question to you is this....The battery is new (MAJORITY IN THE FORUM had advised me to replace it) and my guess would be a faulty starter? Would a faulty starter w/ the aid of jump start will start a car? I know it has something to do with electrical and just couldn't figure out WTF is causing it. Usually it happens after a long drive (at least 60+ miles) during the day.

My head believed it's not the battery/ starter nor the alternator, it's a electrical module mounted somewher on the wall..Please advice.

When it doesn't start, does it click the solenoid or does it just do nothing?

Actually, better yet, get a multi-meter and check the charge on the battery.

If it does it after long drives then I'm betting you wasted money on a battery and you have a faulty voltage regulator that isn't putting out enough voltage to charge the battery properly.

You have a Geo Prism. Also known as a Toyota Corolla. IIRC, the regulator is integrated in the alternator. I'll check my ALLDATA when I get home about that.

Pull your alternator out and have it tested at the minimum. I'll bet it's only pumping out about 10-11 volts. That won't charge the battery anywhere near enough to support a warm start after a 60+ mile drive let alone a cold start the next morning.

Jstas

OK, your Alternator should be putting out 13.5-16 volts.

How to test?

You probably don't have a battery charger so do this. Test the voltage of the battery with the engine off. What does it read? If it's less than 12 volts, the battery is drained. It should honestly be closer to 13-14 volts fully charged. Next, start the car. Test the battery again. If it was low before, has the charging gone up in voltage to at least 13.5 volts? Is it stable? If the answer to either question was no, you have a bad voltage regulator.

If you do have a battery charger, do the following:

1. connect a voltmeter and the battery charger to the battery, preferably a fast charger.
2. Turn the ignition switch to on but don't start the car
3. Slowly increase the charge rate. You will know when you have reached the appropriate voltage to mimic the charging systems because the indicators on the dash will start go out as if the car was running.
4. Look at the voltmeter, it should read between 13.5 and 16 volts and remain fairly steady.
5. In no voltage or the voltage is at or lower than 13.5 volts, replace the voltage regulator.

Depending on if you have the Nippondenso alternator or the Delcotron alternator, you regulator may be integrated or just bolted to the body of the alternator. If you take the alternator out and take it to an Autozone or Pep Boys, they will test it for you and they should be able to test the voltage regulator too. That way you don't waste money on a new alternator when all you needed was a regulator at 10-20% of the price of the alternator.

jjwm27

just start the car and carefully disconect the ground lead from the battery, if the car dies its the alternator, if it continues to run the alternater is fine, i would replace the battery, hope you get it going.

disneyjoe7

jjwm27 wrote: »

just start the car and carefully disconect the ground lead from the battery, if the car dies its the alternator, if it continues to run the alternater is fine, i would replace the battery, hope you get it going.

Doing so in a modern car (with ECM) this could blow the ECM / Computer. Not a good idea.