Krell Amps with SDA's?
nspindel
Posts: 5,343
Mixing and matching components is definitely the trickiest part of this hobby. I'm in the midst of shuffling equipment, and am in a bit of a bind.
For purpose of headphone listening, I've moved to a balanced rig. I just bought the Little Tube MKVI balanced tube headphone amp/pre-amp. Looking to pair this with a nice balalnced power amp.
I pulled the plug on a Parasound Halo A21, but Little Tube told me I should use that amp because it's Direct Coupled, and their tube pre-amps are not designed for use with Direct Coupled input stages in power amps. So I'm back to square one with an amp.
Been looking around, and actually found a nice looking Krell KAV-2250 on the 'gon. Never thought I'd be able to afford to get into Krell, but this used unit is priced roughly around the price of the new Parasound. So I'd be willing to move on it, obviously Krell power is top notch. But just wondering if anyone's ever used them with SDA's? First obvious question is whether or not they're common ground? Assuming so, synergy with SDA's is good???
For purpose of headphone listening, I've moved to a balanced rig. I just bought the Little Tube MKVI balanced tube headphone amp/pre-amp. Looking to pair this with a nice balalnced power amp.
I pulled the plug on a Parasound Halo A21, but Little Tube told me I should use that amp because it's Direct Coupled, and their tube pre-amps are not designed for use with Direct Coupled input stages in power amps. So I'm back to square one with an amp.
Been looking around, and actually found a nice looking Krell KAV-2250 on the 'gon. Never thought I'd be able to afford to get into Krell, but this used unit is priced roughly around the price of the new Parasound. So I'd be willing to move on it, obviously Krell power is top notch. But just wondering if anyone's ever used them with SDA's? First obvious question is whether or not they're common ground? Assuming so, synergy with SDA's is good???
Good music, a good source, and good power can make SDA's sing. Tubes make them dance.
Post edited by nspindel on
Comments
-
Keep the Halo and get a different pre."He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche
-
Both amps are good,but go for the Krell;)Linn AV5140 fronts
Linn AV5120 Center
Linn AV5140 Rears
M&K MX-70 Sub for Music
Odyssey Mono-Blocs
SVS Ultra-13 Gloss Black:D -
I need to keep the pre. First of all, I'm into this company for $$$ already, I've returned another of their pre's for credit towards this one. Second of all, my main reason for buying this tube pre-amp is because it's an amazing balanced headphone amp, which is what I'm really after. A balanced tube head-amp at the price I'm paying for this is unheard of, especially one as well reviewed as it is.
Back to the original question, though, does anyone know if it's common ground?Good music, a good source, and good power can make SDA's sing. Tubes make them dance. -
nspindel
Are you anywhere around New Jersey? For your sake I hope not but if you are I'd let you borrow my Belles 350a for a week. -
Yes, I'm near New Jersey, and that does sound like too tempting of an offer to turn down! The rest of my gear that I've ordered hasn't arrived yet, but when it does we'll definitely be talking! That's a very nice offer, I really appreciate that! Where are you in NJ?Good music, a good source, and good power can make SDA's sing. Tubes make them dance.
-
I am in Hunterdon County by Clinton NJ off Hwy 78 and Route 31
-
Easy. 90 minute drive.Good music, a good source, and good power can make SDA's sing. Tubes make them dance.
-
Lets see if we can work it out. I can do without it for while because I want run my Cambridge Audio integrated again. I also have an idea of trying out a tube amp as well.
-
Nice offer, Drew.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
I'm gonna' predict the Belles as the winner. Good luck,, you are in for a treat.
My first real amp for my SDA SRS 2's was a Belles 350a. I remember that I had narrowed the field down to 3 or 4 amps. So I asked Jesse which one would he choose,LOL, I still remember his words---Get the Belles.:)JC approves....he told me so. (F-1 nut) -
What's the difference between the 350a and the 350a Reference?Good music, a good source, and good power can make SDA's sing. Tubes make them dance.
-
What's the difference between the 350a and the 350a Reference?
A LOT and another grand or so. Ricardo had one and maybe he will chime in. -
Nice offer, Drew.
Yeah Jesse even I try to do something nice once in a while.
I'd really like to do something nice for Miss California
-
There's another Krell KAV-2250 on the 'gon in NJ. Could pick it up and not have to ship. Something about Connecticut pride making me want a Krell. Well, that and the fact that they're awesome. Seriously, though, the CT thing is something to consider. Krell headquarters is an hour from my house - if anything ever goes wrong with the amp I can hand deliver it to them for repairs. Something for consideration.
The thing is, in my little listening room and given my other components, the Krell or the Belles would still be the top piece of gear I'd own, so I'm not sure a Belles would shine over the Krell in my application - it may be that the rest of my gear couldn't bring out the nuances of either one. Not putting down the stuff I'm getting, but I'll be feeding my pre-amp (well, for now at least
) with a $300 dac. It's supposed to be a great dac for the money, but still....
If I can talk the seller down a bit, I'll probably grab it. Comparing the Krell to the Belles would be a pretty high-end project....
Anybody have anything negative to say about Krell?Good music, a good source, and good power can make SDA's sing. Tubes make them dance. -
Well since I havent heard either amp the only thing I can suggest is if you can get the Krell for a decent price wait till you get it before you borrow the Belles then compare the two amps, Just because Krell is a good name is no indication that you will prefer it over the Belles in your system, sometimes different components have a synergy that is hard to beat sonically. Whatever you do keep us posted
REGARDS SNOWWell, I just pulled off the impossible by doing a double-blind comparison all by myself, purely by virtue of the fact that I completely and stupidly forgot what I did last. I guess that getting old does have its advantages after all -
Get a Pass Labs amp and don't look back. Quite messing around and get a "real" amp!.
Ask Ricardo, his Pass is probably his last amp and he's owned a few.
"Oh let the sun beat down upon my face""Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul! -
Nspindel, I have no idea if Krell is common ground.....probably not. I will add none of the current Pass's are either. My Aleph is, but the "X" series is not. Some of the older Aleph's are I believe. Nothing a nice AI-1 cable can't fix however.
H9"Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul! -
Based on the prices I'm seeing on A'gon, Pass Labs is way out of the budget. I'm looking hard at the Krell KAV-2250, thinking I should be able to nail one for $1800. Pass Labs is looking like double that amount and up from there. I'm also seeing blurbs in the description about no caps in the signal path, so direct coupled, which wouldn't work with the pre I got.
As for the common ground, yes, I agree, after seeing DarqueNight's AI-1 project, if the Krell isn't common ground, so be it.Good music, a good source, and good power can make SDA's sing. Tubes make them dance. -
Take a ride over to the South Bronx and listen to Esavinon's KSA 250 and a pair of Polks. He will make you lust for a Krell. Offer to buy him dinner at Roberto's. One of NYC's finest Italian restaurants. (Bring lots of money)Carl
-
That's a real shame............I prefer Direct Coupled amps. Less is More.....I guess I won't be getting a LD afterall if it's truly not compatible with d/c amps. I've read a lot about them and you are the first I've heard that from. But I admit most of the places I've read is using them for headphones, not pre-amps. So I don't doubt what you say."Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
-
I would just LOVE to know what output transistors are used by those "highest-end" amp companies.
If you get a chance, pop the hood and take some photos... -
Pass used/uses International Rectifier Mosfets from the same lot all hand matched in the circuit on the Alpeh 30. These were also used in the early "X" series amps, matched the same way, until that particular type (T0-3 metal can, or "top hat") were discontinued.
Here's an email from Desmond at Pass Labs. They still use International Rectifier Mosfets but......."The original devices were TO-3 packages (top-hat), which lost quite a bit of heat-sink area where two of the three connections went through the heatsinik. Those were discontinued by the makers with the new package being called a TO-3P (flatpack). The new devices heatsink up quite a bit better and are just more robust.
To get the same on chip temperature (where they seem to sound best), Nelson increased the bias on each device, but reduced the number of devices.... keeping roughly the same dissipation and performance as the old TO-3 package.".
Not sure what Krell uses.........but I bet they are similar as they have to be very rugged to operate at the temps they do. Although Pass only runs them at 30% of their rated temp. for long life.
Hope this helps
H9"Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul! -
Hood open"Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
-
listen to Esavinon's KSA 250
The KSA series amps are in a different league than the KAV series.What's the difference between the 350a and the 350a Reference?
At least a $1000.00 and a more refined sound.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
The nirvana inducer-
APC H10 Power Conditioner
Marantz UD5005 universal player
Parasound Halo P5 preamp
Parasound HCA-1200II power amp
PolkAudio LSi9's/PolkAudio SDA 2A's/PolkAudio Monitor 7A's
Audioquest Speaker Cables and IC's -
HA...HA...HA...HA!!!
That's the Pass with the heatsinks run the wrong way!! Look at it!! A large part of the sink would actually retain the heat underneath. :eek: The channels aren't turned to allow it to chimney up! Whatta hoot!!
CoolJazzA so called science type proudly says... "I do realize that I would fool myself all the time, about listening conclusions and many other observations, if I did listen before buying. That’s why I don’t, I bought all of my current gear based on technical parameters alone, such as specs and measurements."
More amazing Internet Science Pink Panther wisdom..."My DAC has since been upgraded from Mark Levinson to Topping." -
HA...HA...HA...HA!!!
That's the Pass with the heatsinks run the wrong way!! Look at it!! A large part of the sink would actually retain the heat underneath. :eek: The channels aren't turned to allow it to chimney up! Whatta hoot!!
CoolJazz
Have you looked at any high end amps lately? :rolleyes:JC approves....he told me so. (F-1 nut) -
HA...HA...HA...HA!!!
That's the Pass with the heatsinks run the wrong way!! Look at it!! A large part of the sink would actually retain the heat underneath. :eek: The channels aren't turned to allow it to chimney up! Whatta hoot!!
CoolJazz
Yeah, your right.............Nelson knows nothing about designing and building amps. Please show us a link to all the amps you've built, the papers you've written, the patents you've published, the DIY community you've helped. I'd truly like to know your credentials :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:
Yeah, that's what I thought, kindly STFU.
H9"Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul! -
HA...HA...HA...HA!!!
That's the Pass with the heatsinks run the wrong way!! Look at it!! A large part of the sink would actually retain the heat underneath. :eek: The channels aren't turned to allow it to chimney up! Whatta hoot!!
CoolJazz
Since you're so knowledgeable care to critique these amps as well.
My Aleph 30 is exactly like the the last (2) photos. The very last run of Alephs used the First Watt chassis as they ran out of the "original" Aleph 30 chassis near the end of the 5 year production. The only thing different from the First Watt chassis is the positioning of the rear hook ups. The FW stuff uses nicer binding post.........but mine have been upgraded to Cardas copper billet binding posts.
Sorry Neil for the derail............:o But, inflammatory comments get under my skin especially when they are totally baseless.
H9"Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul! -
Get a Pass Labs amp and don't look back. Quite messing around and get a "real" amp!.
Ask Ricardo, his Pass is probably his last amp and he's owned a few.
"Oh let the sun beat down upon my face"
Didn't he start a thread about a clipping concern with that amp?
