AC replacement equipment help please.

disneyjoe7
disneyjoe7 Posts: 11,435
edited May 2009 in The Clubhouse
Trane / American Standard or Carrier? Why or why not?


Need to have my 10 seer whole AC system 5 ton replaced due to a bad leaker. The inside coil is leaking bad and the system is 14 years old, so I can't see to replace just the inside coil over the whole system. Ok so some people like 13 seer because its easy to repair it (no electronics) vs. a 15 or 16 seer AC system which has a lot of electronics.


Need your help just is getting crazy. :rolleyes:

Speakers
Carver Amazing Fronts
CS400i Center
RT800i's Rears
Sub Paradigm Servo 15

Electronics
Conrad Johnson PV-5 pre-amp
Parasound Halo A23
Pioneer 84TXSi AVR
Pioneer 79Avi DVD
Sony CX400 CD changer
Panasonic 42-PX60U Plasma
WMC Win7 32bit HD DVR


Post edited by disneyjoe7 on
«1

Comments

  • shawn474
    shawn474 Posts: 3,047
    edited May 2009
    Get Bryant......we just got the evolution system installed last year and it is a wonderful unit. VERY high cere rating and quiet as can be.

    Shawn
    Shawn
    AVR: Marantz SR-5011
    Center Channel: Polk LsiM706c
    Front: Polk LsiM703
    Rear: LSI fx
    Subwoofer: SVS 20-39pci
    Television: Samsung UN58NU7100FXZA
    DVD Player: Sony PS4
  • Serendipity
    Serendipity Posts: 6,975
    edited May 2009
    Definitely NOT Carrier.

    It's another wonderful product made by United Technologies.:rolleyes:
    polkaudio RT35 Bookshelves
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    Front projection, 2 channel, car audio... life is good!
  • Serendipity
    Serendipity Posts: 6,975
    edited May 2009
    That will break down in 3 years...
    polkaudio RT35 Bookshelves
    polkaudio 255c-RT Inwalls
    polkaudio DSWPro550WI
    polkaudio XRT12 XM Tuner
    polkaudio RM6750 5.1

    Front projection, 2 channel, car audio... life is good!
  • petrym
    petrym Posts: 1,912
    edited May 2009
    We did a complete HVAC replacement in Jul 2001 - with Carrier AC and furnace units - and have had zero problems.
  • Serendipity
    Serendipity Posts: 6,975
    edited May 2009
    petrym wrote: »
    We did a complete HVAC replacement in Jul 2001 - with Carrier AC and furnace units - and have had zero problems.

    The old lady that lived next door from my parents' house had a Carrier unit. Let's just put it this way: she wasn't impressed.
    polkaudio RT35 Bookshelves
    polkaudio 255c-RT Inwalls
    polkaudio DSWPro550WI
    polkaudio XRT12 XM Tuner
    polkaudio RM6750 5.1

    Front projection, 2 channel, car audio... life is good!
  • obieone
    obieone Posts: 5,077
    edited May 2009
    Stay AWAY from Trane/ American Standard. Trane is now acually owned by Ingersoll Rand. But, they WERE making GARBAGE until last year.
    Also, they have PROPIETARY components. Specifically the Compressor, which is THE most expensive component.
    Ditto for Carrier, now.
    Get the highest seer rating you can afford, and pay attention to tax rebates/ incentives from the local utilit co.
    Chances are, you'll probably get R-410 system. And make sure the system comes with the safeties like low & high head pressure switches. A leak is usually cheaper than a compressor.
    Lennox is a good brand, and I believe 100% made here. The other brands are assembled to the south! And it shows.

    One more thing. Stay away from ARS and Sears. HACKS!!!
    I refuse to argue with idiots, because people can't tell the DIFFERENCE!
  • disneyjoe7
    disneyjoe7 Posts: 11,435
    edited May 2009
    Stay away from Trane / American Standard....

    Stay away from Carrier....


    My head is hurting.....

    Speakers
    Carver Amazing Fronts
    CS400i Center
    RT800i's Rears
    Sub Paradigm Servo 15

    Electronics
    Conrad Johnson PV-5 pre-amp
    Parasound Halo A23
    Pioneer 84TXSi AVR
    Pioneer 79Avi DVD
    Sony CX400 CD changer
    Panasonic 42-PX60U Plasma
    WMC Win7 32bit HD DVR


  • obieone
    obieone Posts: 5,077
    edited May 2009
    Carrier isn't bad. I can find fault with all of them, they all have their own little quirks that annoy me, but I repair them for a living, so....
    I refuse to argue with idiots, because people can't tell the DIFFERENCE!
  • disneyjoe7
    disneyjoe7 Posts: 11,435
    edited May 2009
    Ok still confused about what to do, but Seer 13 or Seer 15?

    Speakers
    Carver Amazing Fronts
    CS400i Center
    RT800i's Rears
    Sub Paradigm Servo 15

    Electronics
    Conrad Johnson PV-5 pre-amp
    Parasound Halo A23
    Pioneer 84TXSi AVR
    Pioneer 79Avi DVD
    Sony CX400 CD changer
    Panasonic 42-PX60U Plasma
    WMC Win7 32bit HD DVR


  • Serendipity
    Serendipity Posts: 6,975
    edited May 2009
    I would go for the Trane over Carrier.
    polkaudio RT35 Bookshelves
    polkaudio 255c-RT Inwalls
    polkaudio DSWPro550WI
    polkaudio XRT12 XM Tuner
    polkaudio RM6750 5.1

    Front projection, 2 channel, car audio... life is good!
  • jimsvm
    jimsvm Posts: 307
    edited May 2009
    bursting your bubble.bryant is made by carrier. evolution is the best on the market.if you need heat, have your dealer install a heat pump,with the IAQ honeywell t-stat.13seer ok
    higher seer is better.the most imporant item when sizing is do not over size. longer run times = better dehumidification=better comfort.
    Rec rm vm30 micro pro 3000 akai 2 channel. ht anthem MTX 5 channel anthem P2 statement anthem 325, 8 channel Martin Logan power amp for 4 ceiling ls900 2 and outdoor polks, 2 JL 110’s subs panasonic 65" plasma lsim 705’s , 706c, L200 and Control 4 garage rig monitor 10s crossovers by VR3, dynamat, RDO-194's, new drivers. psw 111 Pioneer 9040 BDP53fd 100 " screen Nakamichi HD projector, and Panasonic 65” plasma.
  • petrym
    petrym Posts: 1,912
    edited May 2009
    Preparation/installation is 98% of reliability. If the installer properly does a deep vacuum pull on the AC side before charging the refrigerant (to get *all* the water out), torques all connections to prevent leaks, and doesn't kink any copper, any system will last a very long time. The original HVAC setup in our house lasted 21 years before it required more maintenace than it was worth. That's a long (expected) time for non-industrial quality equipment.
  • nspindel
    nspindel Posts: 5,343
    edited May 2009
    I'm looking at upgrading my stuff as well. I installed Carrier 13 years ago, 2 units, and they're still running fine, I've had no problems with it. But looking to take advantage of the rebates and boost up my efficiency. Gotta lower the carbon footprint. We're looking at Carrier again - from what I understand, if you're looking to go Puron, Carrier is the name to beat.
    Good music, a good source, and good power can make SDA's sing. Tubes make them dance.
  • disneyjoe7
    disneyjoe7 Posts: 11,435
    edited May 2009
    My air conditioning inside "A" coil is leaking really bad it has a least 2 leaks. I thinking it died early do to the fact if was removed to clean it, before I bought the house 6 years ago, other then that I can't see why it would be ok for any other 4 to 6 years. The cost of replacing the A coil vs. replacing in and out is why I'm doing it now, other then I'm going from 10 Seer to 13 or better Seer.

    Speakers
    Carver Amazing Fronts
    CS400i Center
    RT800i's Rears
    Sub Paradigm Servo 15

    Electronics
    Conrad Johnson PV-5 pre-amp
    Parasound Halo A23
    Pioneer 84TXSi AVR
    Pioneer 79Avi DVD
    Sony CX400 CD changer
    Panasonic 42-PX60U Plasma
    WMC Win7 32bit HD DVR


  • disneyjoe7
    disneyjoe7 Posts: 11,435
    edited May 2009
    nspindel wrote: »
    I'm looking at upgrading my stuff as well. I installed Carrier 13 years ago, 2 units, and they're still running fine, I've had no problems with it. But looking to take advantage of the rebates and boost up my efficiency. Gotta lower the carbon footprint. We're looking at Carrier again - from what I understand, if you're looking to go Puron, Carrier is the name to beat.


    Puron is R-410, it's just that Carrier named it Puron. The rebates are for Seer 15 which one AC guy stated full of electronics and could be a potential problems down the road. He pushing me to a Seer 13 which is cheaper and has less stuff to break. It's about a $800 difference to me after all rebates $1500 from Feds and $350 from Power company. Not sure if for +2 seer upgrade with more to go wrong is worth the $$.

    Speakers
    Carver Amazing Fronts
    CS400i Center
    RT800i's Rears
    Sub Paradigm Servo 15

    Electronics
    Conrad Johnson PV-5 pre-amp
    Parasound Halo A23
    Pioneer 84TXSi AVR
    Pioneer 79Avi DVD
    Sony CX400 CD changer
    Panasonic 42-PX60U Plasma
    WMC Win7 32bit HD DVR


  • tonyb
    tonyb Posts: 32,952
    edited May 2009
    Buy a fan,not like it gets hot or humid down there.:)
    HT SYSTEM-
    Sony 850c 4k
    Pioneer elite vhx 21
    Sony 4k BRP
    SVS SB-2000
    Polk Sig. 20's
    Polk FX500 surrounds

    Cables-
    Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
    Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
    Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
    Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable

    Kitchen

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    lsi 9's
  • disneyjoe7
    disneyjoe7 Posts: 11,435
    edited May 2009
    I would jump in the pool if needed, but wife would kill me first if over heated. :(

    Speakers
    Carver Amazing Fronts
    CS400i Center
    RT800i's Rears
    Sub Paradigm Servo 15

    Electronics
    Conrad Johnson PV-5 pre-amp
    Parasound Halo A23
    Pioneer 84TXSi AVR
    Pioneer 79Avi DVD
    Sony CX400 CD changer
    Panasonic 42-PX60U Plasma
    WMC Win7 32bit HD DVR


  • Mike Reeter
    Mike Reeter Posts: 4,315
    edited May 2009
    nspindel wrote: »
    I'm looking at upgrading my stuff as well. I installed Carrier 13 years ago, 2 units, and they're still running fine, I've had no problems with it. But looking to take advantage of the rebates and boost up my efficiency. Gotta lower the carbon footprint. We're looking at Carrier again - from what I understand, if you're looking to go Puron, Carrier is the name to beat.

    We also have 2 units...Bryant dual fuel systems...12 years old.

    Going to also take advantage of tax credits and rebates and install a Geothermal system next week,weather permiting.
  • obieone
    obieone Posts: 5,077
    edited May 2009
    DJ7: I'm not tryng to confuse you, but I need some basic info:

    Do you have a gas furnace or heat-pump?

    How many sq. ft. is the house?

    How badly is this system leaking? Does someone come out once a week, once a month, to replenish the missing refrigerant?


    And FYI, SEER has to do more with the surface area of coils than it does to do with elecronics.
    My house was built in 2005 and has a 12 SEER system. It's a 2 ton system with a 4 ton condensor coil. The larger surface of the outside coil means the compressor has to do less work.
    I'd recommend getting 2nd & 3rd opinions. Preferably from co.'s that sell different brands.
    I refuse to argue with idiots, because people can't tell the DIFFERENCE!
  • timlitton
    timlitton Posts: 289
    edited May 2009
    Going to also take advantage of tax credits and rebates and install a Geothermal system next week,weather permiting.


    Smart man. Geothermal is the way to go. It's one of the fastest growing segment of the HVAC market and is projected to grow 10%-20% every year.

    The WaterFurnace Envision is the most efficient heating and cooling system on the planet... bar none.
    • It provides heating, cooling, and hot water generation all in one unit
    • It's 5x's more efficient in heating than the very best gas furnace (98 AFUE)
    • It's more than 2x's as efficient as the very best heat pump on the market (21 SEER/9.5 HSPF).
    • It saves between 40%-70% on heating & cooling bills
    • It reduces our dependance on foreign oil
    • It has no noisy outdoor equipment to clutter your yard
    • It requires less maintenance
    • The average system life is 24.4 years
    • It increases property value
    • It doesn't use any combustion so there's no chance of explosion or carbon monoxide build-up
    • It comes with a 30% (no limit) tax credit for installation.
    • The EPA and DOE have called geothermal "the most energy-efficient, environmentally clean, and cost-effective" way to heat and cool our buildings.
    • It's viable and currently in use in all 50 states and on every continent except Antarctica
    • Although it does cost more to install the outdoor piping system (the loop), the system is so energy efficient that payback averages less than 8 years
    For more information, I've attached a great piece that explains it in better detail.
    Slowly emerging from the 90's
    Fronts: Polk LSi15's
    Center: Polk CS350ls
    Pre: Sony STRDA555ES
    Amp: Rotel RMB-1075
    Sub: Velodyne SPL-1000
    TV: 46" Sharp Aquos LCD
    Dust magnet: Sony PS3
  • polktiger
    polktiger Posts: 556
    edited May 2009
    I have purchased Tranes at the office, happy with them. Had to replace due to copper being stolen, so we went with aluminum coils of the Trane.
    Just installed Bryants at home, very happy with them. replaced a crap goodman unit, and a 24 year old Carrier.

    For those saying don't get American Standard/Trane or Carrier/Bryant, what are you actually suggesting, Lennox??? Goodman???? Heil??? Payne??? there is not much left, and not much that is remotely desireable.
  • venomclan
    venomclan Posts: 2,467
    edited May 2009
  • Serendipity
    Serendipity Posts: 6,975
    edited May 2009
    polktiger wrote: »
    For those saying don't get American Standard/Trane or Carrier/Bryant, what are you actually suggesting, Lennox??? Goodman???? Heil??? Payne??? there is not much left, and not much that is remotely desireable.

    I said don't get a Carrier but Trane is a good option. When I think of Trane, I think reliability.
    polkaudio RT35 Bookshelves
    polkaudio 255c-RT Inwalls
    polkaudio DSWPro550WI
    polkaudio XRT12 XM Tuner
    polkaudio RM6750 5.1

    Front projection, 2 channel, car audio... life is good!
  • disneyjoe7
    disneyjoe7 Posts: 11,435
    edited May 2009
    obieone wrote: »
    DJ7: I'm not tryng to confuse you, but I need some basic info:

    Do you have a gas furnace or heat-pump?

    How many sq. ft. is the house?

    How badly is this system leaking? Does someone come out once a week, once a month, to replenish the missing refrigerant?


    And FYI, SEER has to do more with the surface area of coils than it does to do with elecronics.
    My house was built in 2005 and has a 12 SEER system. It's a 2 ton system with a 4 ton condensor coil. The larger surface of the outside coil means the compressor has to do less work.
    I'd recommend getting 2nd & 3rd opinions. Preferably from co.'s that sell different brands.


    It's a Heat Pump all electric. Not sure how bad the leak is, as far as Freon level vs. system performance. He didn't think it would work more then a month or so, I know it singed off in at least a couple areas.

    Speakers
    Carver Amazing Fronts
    CS400i Center
    RT800i's Rears
    Sub Paradigm Servo 15

    Electronics
    Conrad Johnson PV-5 pre-amp
    Parasound Halo A23
    Pioneer 84TXSi AVR
    Pioneer 79Avi DVD
    Sony CX400 CD changer
    Panasonic 42-PX60U Plasma
    WMC Win7 32bit HD DVR


  • petrym
    petrym Posts: 1,912
    edited May 2009
    appadv wrote: »
    I said don't get a Carrier but Trane is a good option. When I think of Trane, I think reliability.
    That's Trane's marketing talking, you heard it enough times to make it part of your unconscious thought process.

    I'm sure most companies make good stuff; they'd have to in order to survive in today's world. I'd interview a few local installers and see what they have to say... then reject those that only push one brand way over the other.
  • disneyjoe7
    disneyjoe7 Posts: 11,435
    edited May 2009
    Well I went with an American Standard 5 ton 13 seer system. It seemed to be the best system I can buy for the $$, I should get it installed by June 5th.


    Ok another can of worms....

    Anyone heard anything about ICE22?

    Speakers
    Carver Amazing Fronts
    CS400i Center
    RT800i's Rears
    Sub Paradigm Servo 15

    Electronics
    Conrad Johnson PV-5 pre-amp
    Parasound Halo A23
    Pioneer 84TXSi AVR
    Pioneer 79Avi DVD
    Sony CX400 CD changer
    Panasonic 42-PX60U Plasma
    WMC Win7 32bit HD DVR


  • Serendipity
    Serendipity Posts: 6,975
    edited May 2009
    petrym wrote: »
    That's Trane's marketing talking, you heard it enough times to make it part of your unconscious thought process.

    Nah, it's not Trane's marketing at all.

    It has more to do with Carrier and United Technologies (as a company), but I won't say on the forum. PM me if you want details.
    polkaudio RT35 Bookshelves
    polkaudio 255c-RT Inwalls
    polkaudio DSWPro550WI
    polkaudio XRT12 XM Tuner
    polkaudio RM6750 5.1

    Front projection, 2 channel, car audio... life is good!
  • mrbigbluelight
    mrbigbluelight Posts: 9,680
    edited May 2009
    All brands have their good points and bad points, and that can certainly be debated ( can easily develop into a full-blown cable debate ;) ).

    BUT: You could get a "GOD" branded unit, delivered directly from the "GOD" warehouse by "GOD" Himself, and your project can still head south.
    How ? Crap-**** installation.

    Probably more units are ruined by freon mechanics during installation than anything else.

    A large number of fly-by-nighters brag on how quickly they can install a unit
    (condensor, evaporator, and blower). While that's all swell and terrific that they can be in and out in 4 hours, ...... WTF is the rush ?
    Think of "Quick" as being another name for "Shortcuts", which is another name for "this oughta hold", which is another name for "We'll see you in 9 months on that service call".

    I've been looking through YouTube for the past week or so for refrigeration/HVAC training videos (putting together a DVD for the "Nobody Showed Me" schmuck club here at work).
    There's a LOT of refrigeration/HVAC videos that show some numbing nightmare installations, particularly in Arizona. I've been "KeepVid"ing them, so I don't have the links off hand, but they back up what I'm saying:

    MAKE SURE YOUR CONTRACTOR/TECHNICIAN KNOWS YOU'RE ANAL ABOUT INSTALLATION !!!!

    Good enough .... ain't.
    Sal Palooza
  • mrbigbluelight
    mrbigbluelight Posts: 9,680
    edited May 2009
    I did save one link showing a Trane unit in New Orleans. Pretty cool.


    <object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/m26zeSMn7WU&hl=en&fs=1&rel=0"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/m26zeSMn7WU&hl=en&fs=1&rel=0&quot; type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>


    Make sure your installation tech knows that you want that kind of performance.
    Sal Palooza
  • disneyjoe7
    disneyjoe7 Posts: 11,435
    edited May 2009
    A little background here. I like Trane systems, I see a lot of them and I never see anyone having a big problem with them. I'm getting this from a "Friend of a Friend" one of these "Friends" say he likes Carrier, but he ok with Trane the other "Friend" like Trane. Then the "Friend" who likes Trane likes simple systems nothing of electronics stuff, maybe he's seen some issues or he's "Old School"? Then other who like Carrier like electronic stuff also, since this was a "Friend of a Friend" thing I'm like WTF

    Now believe this these people work with each other, one is the others boss but they work on what I'm not sure? Not sure if they work on same small systems or large commercial systems, I'm thinking large where I feel Carrier RULES IMHO :)

    Speakers
    Carver Amazing Fronts
    CS400i Center
    RT800i's Rears
    Sub Paradigm Servo 15

    Electronics
    Conrad Johnson PV-5 pre-amp
    Parasound Halo A23
    Pioneer 84TXSi AVR
    Pioneer 79Avi DVD
    Sony CX400 CD changer
    Panasonic 42-PX60U Plasma
    WMC Win7 32bit HD DVR