Pilots make $16K a year?

polkatese

This is news to me that Pilots make this paltry amount of salary (in light of Colgan Airlines accident). With the kind of responsibility that the job comes with, why would anyone be compelled to pursue a career in this industry?

A clerk at McDonalds make that kind of salary with no responsibility of ensuring the safety of 50+ life, not to mention the training and rigorous certification process that they have to endure.

What's wrong with this picture? what's wrong with this industry?

Any polkies who are familiar with this industry? I used to travel extensively by air, and always thought that these pilots are compensated well to perform their duties without having to worry about getting a second job to meet ends. Just mind boggling.

bruss

I am positive that this is not the case..

bobman1235

Here's a cool site that lists salaries by airline and seniority : http://www.pea.com/imd/airline-pilot-salary.asp

Looks like first-year is between 30 and 50k, with most 10-year veterans making 125-200k. Far cry from 16.

polkatese

So, was she an anomaly to the industry standard pay?

http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/2009/05/13/2009-05-13_rebecca_lynn_shaw_copilot_of_doomed_buffalo_flight_3407_was_paid_16000_a_year.html

bobman1235

Maybe that's what happens when you work for some piddly half-rate airline no one has ever heard of?

bruss

she was a co pilot of a puddle jumper.

polkatese

some of these piddly half-rate airlines are hiding behind the majors: United Express, Continental Express, or Delta Connection. So, while I would (most likely) never flown Colgan or Mesa Air by choice, these airlines are feeder to the big boys. Just sayin'

sucks2beme

I'm sure somewhere there's a software programmer working for $8 an
hour , too. HArdly the norm, though.

ben62670

Only pilots with 3 or more DWI's make 16k a year. About 47.63% of them.

zingo

I have a pilot friend who flies the puddle jumpers and that's about what those starting pilots make. I was very surprised to find that out as well.

NotaSuv

well she could have made a whopping 23k according to the company...she lived in Seattle so had to commute cross country for most of her flights and sadly listening to the cockpit recordings both of these youngsters were totally clueless as what to do.....down right scary.....

Polk user

bobman1235 wrote: »

Here's a cool site that lists salaries by airline and seniority : http://www.pea.com/imd/airline-pilot-salary.asp

Looks like first-year is between 30 and 50k, with most 10-year veterans making 125-200k. Far cry from 16.

Those salaries are B.S. They are posted on a website selling pilot training. You would be shocked as to what airline pilots are making, especially after the givebacks because of 9/11. There are many regional F.O. collecting food stamps in order to feed themselves. Pilots are paid per hour on the time they back away from the gate. The hours they spend checking weather, preflighting, running thru preflight checklists and any other responsibility go unpaid.

How much do you think the starting salary of a Jet Blue Captain flying an Airbus is?

bobman1235

Polk user wrote: »

Those salaries are B.S. They are posted on a website selling pilot training. You would be shocked as to what airline pilots are making, especially after the givebacks because of 9/11. There are many regional F.O. collecting food stamps in order to feed themselves. Pilots are paid per hour on the time they back away from the gate. The hours they spend checking weather, preflighting, running thru preflight checklists and any other responsibility go unpaid.

How much do you think the starting salary of a Jet Blue Captain flying an Airbus is?

How the hell should I know? Point me to a reliable source and I'll believe it. For right now, I'm not going to believe that a major airline is going to pay less than they would a McDonalds employee, cuz no one would do it. I would definitely believe 40-50k for a starting salary.

For flying small commute planes for smaller companies I'm sure it's significantly less, as shown in this story, but again, major companies flying thousands of passnegers a day, hundreds at a time? They're not going to trust that much liability to someone making minimum wage.

polkatese

Bob, that's is the crux of my dismay, 23 Million passengers flew on these puddle-jumpers last year.

scary, truth be told. It is not a simple question of: Would you like to supersize that slurpee?

polkatese

Polk user wrote: »

How much do you think the starting salary of a Jet Blue Captain flying an Airbus is?

Enlighten me, Polk User, please. Curiousity is kiiling me now.

BlueFox

Supply and demand. Lots of pilots trying for a few jobs. Do not be surprised if the airlines start bringing H1-Bs in to drive the salaries even lower.

Danny Tse

Polk user wrote: »

How much do you think the starting salary of a Jet Blue Captain flying an Airbus is?

I have no clue, but I think it's a lot lower than what we think they should be making.

George Grand

There are plenty of mid-level to senior airline guys making well over 100k driving heavies.

Small regional carriers do not pay a lot, and rarely do you ever upgrade if you're hired into them. It wasn't all that long ago that USAir's regional puddle jumping division was paying $1,000/month to guys.

Hillbilly61

As I understand things, there is a hierachy at work. I don't know the pay scale, but the key to a good living is to break into flying a jet. Transatlantic pilots are supposed to be at the top, typically making $150K or more. The bottom tier involves anything having a propeller.

williamgauci

I have a friend who flies the exact plane, I had always assumed that he made decent money. I was shocked when I was out drinking on night an he let slip how little he makes flying those planes. He's with a subsiduary of Air Canada. The big money is only in the large jets on international flights. I make more than he does working in the HVAC trade.

ND13

A good friend's father was making close to $190k/yr back in the early 80s. I'd say there's a zero missing.

dkg999

The pay for pilots without military training is pretty dismal! A friend's son graduated from a pretty well respected aviation school and finally joined the Air Force so he could get the higher pay when he got out, and be able to afford to follow his dreams and support a family. Personally, some of the skill levels of pilots I have flown with on the commuter hops is downright scary.

sucks2beme

Like all jobs out there. There's somebody willing to work for a lot less.
And there's a lot of employers who think cheap is good until something
bad happens. I just got a call from another group's boss in the company.
Seems all the cheap Indian guys have been working an issue all day.
Now they want someone who can fix the problem. Sorry *sswipes.
I don't work for you anymore. Explain THAT cost savings to the customer.
Sorry, couldn't resist.

mrbigbluelight

Rest assured that the pilots of Boeing's Dreamliner will be making substantially more than minimum wage.

George Grand

dkg999 wrote: »

The pay for pilots without military training is pretty dismal! A friend's son graduated from a pretty well respected aviation school and finally joined the Air Force so he could get the higher pay when he got out, and be able to afford to follow his dreams and support a family. Personally, some of the skill levels of pilots I have flown with on the commuter hops is downright scary.

They take fighter pilots as well, but where else are you going to find young guys with experience in multi-engine heavies other than the military? Military heavies typically have two more engines now than their civilian counterparts.

Overseas CAPTAINS make the big bucks civilian-wise. The airline industry got destroyed by 9-11. You find more guys now willing to drive airplanes for FedEx, or at night for UPS rather than work at the airlines.

apphd

George Grand wrote: »

They take fighter pilots as well, but where else are you going to find young guys with experience in multi-engine heavies other than the military? Military heavies typically have two more engines now than their civilian counterparts.

Overseas CAPTAINS make the big bucks civilian-wise. The airline industry got destroyed by 9-11. You find more guys now willing to drive airplanes for FedEx, or at night for UPS rather than work at the airlines.

....and as said earlier the big $$ are international heavies. There is a progression pilots need to make. Military multi engine jet pilots have a jump start. Other than that you need hours in the air with the smaller planes just to progress to the next level to even start training on them. You need FAA ratings to be licensed at different levels, and it all pretty much starts with single engine prop planes and a private license. Then you move up to various ratings... commercial, mutli prop, jet, muti engine jet and so on. You don't necessarily need each rating but many are prereqs. to getting the next. The regional pilots are usually building "time" and expierience working their way up to the big $$.

http://www.pilotratings.com/ATP.html

Hillbilly61

Read my earlier post. What was provided is all based from a transatlantic pilot friend I grew up with. He had access to airplanes, as his father ran a prop business where I grew up. The guy had his pilot license when he was 14 (and would do all kinds of crazy **** in the planes over my house ... one time I thought he was crashing his dad's plane when looking up and watching).

Gary went the civilian route, but had benefit of being born into the opportunity. He says former military jet pilots can get jump started into civilian jet transport, as the military weeds out pilots who cannot handle the much harder to control military jets. The major airlines know this. There is good money to be made driving a civilian jet.

Otherwise, you have to pay your "dues" and work yourself up. Gary did and never killed a soul while doing so.

J. Chrisman

It is certainly a business where you have to work your way from the very bottom on up. I'm a commercial rated pilot, although I never once used the certification for a flying job. My main profession is as a mechanic on single engine prop planes, currently working at the factory of one of the #1 manufacturers of piston aircraft. But I've watched many people start their journey either as a flight instructor, running checks or (to quote Top Gun) "...flying a cargo plane full of rubber dog sh-- out of Hong Kong." The name of the game for pilots is building flight hours. Lots of hours in various aircraft recorded in their logbooks is their ticket to the majors and getting the paychecks more in line with what they do. Lots of politics and who they may happen to know plays a large part in it as well, unfortunately. And it lands a lot of pilots to take jobs with companies that only pay them peanuts and spend even less properly training them to fly the specific aircraft they have. Aviation seems to follow a steady rise and fall in the number of people available for positions, both pilots and mechanics. A few years ago, there was a lot of pilots from the Vietnam era that were hitting the FAA mandated retirement age. Flight schools out there really pushed the "Make BIG money!" line and that brought a lot of people in. Slow downs happen and suddenly there is a glut of desperate pilots and that is when the cheap outfits really take advantage.

Honestly, though. Most professional pilots are damn good at what they do. But as always, as in any profession, there are exceptions.

CaligulaPolk

hope whoever flying for $16k a year wont flying this plane
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