LSi Treble: Who Juices?

dougy

OK, true confession time: How many of you LSi owners crank up the treble at least a tad? If you do, how much do you boost it? Do you use tone controls, or (gasp!) an EQ? I'll admit to a couple or three decibels with the treble control on my Onkyo amp. It just sounds better on most recordings that way. Maybe the 9's aren't rolled off; could just be my tin ears.

Face

Depending on the rest of your gear, they can be on the warm side.

BlueFox

Might be the room. I had to put acoustic foam on my walls to bring the brightness down using 4 LSi15s. I couldn't imagine turning the treble up.

Midnite Mick

I too always felt that the tweeter was restricted. I used to turn it up 2 dbs for ht when I had them. I have no tone controls for 2 channel.

Regards,
Mike

george daniel

toobs

heiney9

The tweeter is very very smooth and while it seems you might need to boost treble if you listen carefully it doesn't miss any detail. I think the LSi tweeter is outstanding. I haven't had a tone control in 23 years so I can't say if it improves using tone controls. All I can say is when I had my 9's I thought it's best attribute was the extremely detailed yet laid back nature of the Vifa tweeter.

Room, gear and cables need to be visited or it could be you just prefer a more colored sound with boosted treble. If you;re using the dac in the SB I can tell you it's pretty poor compared to an outboard dac.

steveinaz

I don't have tone controls, and don't miss them. A treble knob can come in handy for that occassional "horse-blanket" recording though; I just wouldn't get in the habit of using it with everything.

dougy

I prefer to not use any EQ or tone controls, but I'm not fanatical about it. If it sounds better with some shaping, I'll go for it. But I have heard the grunge such circuits can add and me no likey. So it comes down to having to pick your poison, I guess. My Onkyo definitely does add a layer of noise when the tone controls are in the loop, but I really can only hear it with headphones -and I don't need them with the phones, anyway. But to my ears, my LSi-9's do benefit from that 2-3dB treble boost. They sometimes sound kinda dull otherwise.

So, I'm a bit disappointed with the Vifa ring radiator tweeter. I was expecting world-class tweeting, and while it is very smooth and non-fatiguing, it does seem lacking in air and sparkle sometimes. It's hard to walk that fine line that defines a great tweeter, I guess. And then again, like I mentioned, maybe it's just me. I admit to some high-frequency roll-off myself.:o

heiney9

Well, I can tell you with a better front end (no offense to your Onkyo) the LSi's will shine and you will get your "first class" sound. A receiver doesn't really do that well with LSi's. A receiver in general isn't all that high fidelity. Again not trying to offend but those are the facts. Better gear will result in a dramatic improvement in sound quality. Your SB is a limiting factor as well. The internal dac's aren't that great and are contributing to your issues.

george daniel

Take Brock's advice,, the "front end" is soooo important.Good luck,have fun and enjoy.:)

dougy

My Onkyo A-9555 is not a receiver. Granted, it's not "high end" either; at least not by some definitions. It's a digital, two-channel integrated amp capable of 200W into 4 Ohm loads. It's quiet and clean. To my ears it sounds very good. It also sounded very good driving my pair of Klipsch La Scala II's that I had prior to the LSi-9's; no high frequency roll-off there! I think it really boils down to my hearing and/or personal preference. The ring radiator may just not be quite hot enough for me. After I sold the Klipsch but before I got the Polks, I pressed a pair of a/d/s/ HT-300's from my home theater rig into service in the two-channel set-up. Now those speakers sounded, if anything, too hot on top with the Onkyo. Mind you, they didn't sound bad, or grungy and etched at all; just too much treble. So that's three different speakers I've used with the same amp. With the Klipsch the top end was just right. With the a/d/s/ it was too hot and with the Polk's it's too dull...so my inclination is not to blame the Onkyo amp. I'll just continue to use the amp's treble control to juice up the top end 2-3dB as I'm of no mind to replace the Onkyo integrated in the forseeable future. I'd be more inclined to replace the speakers!

BTW, I hear ya' concerning the Squeezebox, but I hear the same dullness with CD, too. I have considered and external DAC, but to be honest, I don't like too many little black boxes cluttering up my rig. I might cave, though, if I could find one that would not look too kludgy.

Ya' know, I think I need to play with the filter settings on my CD player! I've never been able too tell much difference between them before, but that may not be the case with the LSi's.

Face

dougy wrote: »

BTW, I hear ya' concerning the Squeezebox, but I hear the same dullness with CD, too. I have considered and external DAC, but to be honest, I don't like too many little black boxes cluttering up my rig. I might cave, though, if I could find one that would not look too kludgy.

http://www.cambridgeaudio.com/summary.php?PID=320

wingnut4772

I used to have a full LSI set with excellent amplification and the thought of turning up the treble makes me wince. The LSIs are a great speaker and a bit on the warm side but I find th tweeter to be pretty revealing - maybe even slightly etchy to my ears. Just ever so slight at least compared to my Von Schweikerts.

cfrizz

Dougy, you like & are used to bright speakers, so I doubt you will be happy with the LSI's for long. Look into some B & W's they should be right up your alley.:)

(cringes & puts pillow over head!:eek:)

Monster Jam

I crank the treble with my LSi system as well. But I'll readily admit that I prefer a brighter speaker (such as RTi and Klipsch).

dougy

I was very tempted to order a pair of RTi-A7's from Crutchfield before I ran across the LSi-9's on eBay. Geez, I don't know how Polk can sell those for the price they do and make money. They sure look a lot more expensive than they are. The drivers and crossover must be rather inexpensive...not that that's a bad thing, of course. It's the performance that counts! If Polk can wring the kind of performance out of them that gets the raves it does here, then more power to them! I wish more speaker makers could do that.

gdb

If you'd like some "sizzle" from your tweets.....swap in some vintage SL2000s. I need to twist the treble knob in the opposite direction than you do, with 2000s playing !:)

reeltrouble1

The Onkyo is holding you back.

RT1

markmarc

I've become a bit of critic when it comes to the LSi treble, it's not due to the Vifa, but the mediocre x-over parts. I have the opportunity to hear all sorts of speakers, and never have I experienced a more restrained tweeter in an otherwise solid performer.

I wish everyone could have heard the improvement I experienced with the Grant Fidelity super tweeter in combo with a pair of borrowed LSi9's and the Sim Moon i7 integrated amp.

fossy

I admit to twisting the treble a few notches before I added a pair a Ben's silver IC's between the pre & amp.You might want to play around with a little silver,If you haven't already. It sure made a difference with my set-up.It's been said a little silver goes along way.This is true.

Hopefully in the near future, I would love to do or have done, the X-over mod.

dougy

So we've got some saying the problem is my low-brow Onkyo amp. some say it's the LSi-9's low-brow crossover. Some say I need an external dac. Or maybe I need different speakers...or different ears! I think I'll just keep the treble goosed a wee bit for the time being because other than this, I really like the sound of the LSi-9's.

cnh

dougy wrote: »

So we've got some saying the problem is my low-brow Onkyo amp. some say it's the LSi-9's low-brow crossover. Some say I need an external dac. Or maybe I need different speakers...or different ears! I think I'll just keep the treble goosed a wee bit for the time being because other than this, I really like the sound of the LSi-9's.

If it sounds good to you...why mess with it. Personally I prefer a laid back tweeter, the Rti-s drive me batty. I even prefer my M series tweeter (M70) to most Rtis because they (Rti) seem less musical (i.e. too BRIGHT) and more HT to me. The LSIs (though I don't own any--yet) seem just 'right'...I guess I got a Goldilocks thing going on here!

cnh

dougy

I agree that they do sound "just right"...on many CD's; just not all. I listened to a couple of things this afternoon that just sounded wonderful with the tone circuit switched out of the signal path altogether: Randy Travis' "Storms Of Life" and the "Circle II" album from The Nitty Gritty Dirt Band (and guests). The sound (and music!) was out of this world wonderful; the best I've ever heard of these! Maybe it was synergy, maybe it was my tweeking the filter settings on my CD player...I dunno. All I know is I sat there like I been hip-no-tized for the duration. Frequency response was spot-on, top to bottom...Three dimensionality in spades! I coulda listened all evening...

megasat16

dougy wrote: »

I agree that they do sound "just right"...on many CD's; just not all. I listened to a couple of things this afternoon that just sounded wonderful with the tone circuit switched out of the signal path altogether: Randy Travis' "Storms Of Life" and the "Circle II" album from The Nitty Gritty Dirt Band (and guests). The sound (and music!) was out of this world wonderful; the best I've ever heard of these! Maybe it was synergy, maybe it was my tweeking the filter settings on my CD player...I dunno. All I know is I sat there like I been hip-no-tized for the duration. Frequency response was spot-on, top to bottom...Three dimensionality in spades! I coulda listened all evening...

Welcome to the world of reality for Audio. Nothing will ever sounds right for every recording and every genre of music. As long as it sounds good to the majority of the recordings and music you listen to, I guess it's more than good enough for me.

That come from a man with 2 pairs of LSi25, 1 pair of LSi15, 2 pairs of LSi9, 2 Pairs of LSi/fX and 1 pair of LSi7. Do I think they sound right for everything? NO! But they sounds right for most of the things.

I would get a decent amplifier first if I want my LSi to sound better than they did with the Onkyo Receiver. And yes, I could listen to LSi all day long without fatigue at really high volume.

Doc99

The LSi's tweeter is very refined, and so it can use some treble enhancement for listeners who miss that sizzle in their speakers.

debussyj

Sorry, no need to turn the treble up on mine at all.

maximillian

I have LSi9's driven by a Yamaha receiver as a pre and an Adcom 535L. The Yamaha is set to straight thru so I don't know what effect it has on the overall sound, if any. I have read that Yamaha receivers tend to be bright though.

I think the LSi9's tweeter sounds fine. Yes, more layed back compared to my ex-RTi6's, but I prefer it. They sound more natural sounding than the RTi6's, especially in the vocals. It's as if I can really hear every inflection in the singer's voice, including their breathing. So, no I do not turn up the treble. However, I do notice that the vocals become more forward if I turn up the volume. The overall soundstage seems to widen as well. Maybe it's my setup or maybe it's my amateurish ears. Anyone have an idea?

dougy

Maybe the treble control runs down into the mids. That would explain the forward sound when the treble is boosted, and it wouldn't be uncommon, especially with more extreme amounts of boost (6+ dB).

Hawking821

yea.. do you have a good crossover that is working properly?

ctrulock

I have a very small listening room. So I have it double bad, I defeat the bass quite alot on my sub and lsi9's (-3) and barely boost the treble (+1) and it sounds wonderful for 2.1 channel. Yammy rx797 is kind of a beast for a 2 channel receiver though. Hell if it sounds better to you (you are the boss), then I say eq/tone it to best sound!

PS: room accoustics prolly has more to do with it than anything imo.

Ethancf

With Parasound, no need to tweak the treble at all...superb as is.