Building an LSi system

arnaudh

New Polk convert!

I acquired a pair of LSi9s as my rear speakers (on 30'' stands), and inherited a pair of fx/300i (a bit small, I know) that I'm thinking of using as surrounds. For the meat of the system, I'm thinking LSi15s, LSiC and a DSW microPRO 2000. My receiver is a Denon 2809CI. A pair of Atriums as B speakers for the patio.

Here are my Polk newbie questions:

- What cables would you consider for the indoor speakers?

- The room (living) is partly wood-paneled, and the rear is a lot of windows (typical mid century architecture). I'm a bit concerned by the effect it might have on the sound. What do you think?

Thanks!

Hilbert

"What cables would you consider for the indoor speakers?"

I would consider cables from Blue Jeans Cable (google it). Other popular choices include Signal Cable, Monoprice, and AudioQuest.

"The room (living) is partly wood-paneled, and the rear is a lot of windows (typical mid century architecture). I'm a bit concerned by the effect it might have on the sound. What do you think?"

I think set it up and give it a listen. Should be an awesome system. If there's a problem, treatment options exist, and CPers will be happy to advise.

One bit of advice: rather than worry about cables, consider a separate amp. LSis are power hungry and your Denon may not drive them adequately.

What amp, you ask? A deep question, depending in large part on your budget. I like Emotiva. Others will chime in with alternative suggestions. Take some time and do some research; it will pay off.

Welcome to Club Polk, and congrats on your new speakers.

ben62670

Another welcome to Club Polk. You really need an amp to get anything decent out of LSI's. Also for the fronts I do highly recommend Audio Quest type4's. Get them used for cheap. As for the room I would wait and see if you suffer from room reflections.
Ben

arnaudh

Yes, I forgot a question, and you guys read my mind: what amp? I heard about Emotivas, and I'm going to look into the UPA-7 or the XPA-5. Looks much more affordable than the Outlaw 7500.

Hilbert

Of the two Emo amps you mention, I'd suggest xpa-5, partly because I have one and like it a lot, and partly because (I've read) front speakers in a 7.1 system need a lot more power than rears, and LSi15s in particular need a lot of watts to wake up. You might be able to get away with running the rears off the receiver.

But I'm not really competent to be offering a lot of advice about amps so will shut up now.

Well, one more word: don't rush. Do some research.

candjhuntley

arnaudh wrote: »

Yes, I forgot a question, and you guys read my mind: what amp? I heard about Emotivas, and I'm going to look into the UPA-7 or the XPA-5. Looks much more affordable than the Outlaw 7500.

Definitely the XPA-5 - they give enough juice for the LSi line which will take much more than the 200wpc into 4 ohms that they're rated for. A rule of thumb i've learned is look for an amp that will do 200wpc into 8 ohm (and that is 4 ohm rated) that way you KNOW you'll have PLENTY into 4 ohms.

Do you have a budget?

Bernal

Hi,
I have a Denon 4308-Ci with the LSi Series without amplifier and the performance is excellent with good shine. From an audio standpoint, the receiver behaves in an absolutely perfect. It has more than enough power to impress the most impressive and soundtracks to create a completely enveloping atmosphere in the room, making the boxes literally "disappear" so we know where it comes from the sound but do not identify with the position of speakers. We must work the location of speakers and lots of patience with equalization according to your room.

---

1) DENON AVR-4308CI: Advanced 7.1 CH/5.1+2 CH/ 3.1+2+2 CH A/V Home Theater /MultiMedia Multi-Source/Zone Receiver with Networking and WiFi/170 watts x 7 channels
2) HITACHI P55T501. 55" HD1080 Plasma HDTV
3) DENON DVD-1740: Progressive Scan DVD Video/CD Player
4) DENON DVD-2500BTCI: Blu-ray Disc™ DVD/CD Digital Player/Transport
5) POLKAUDIO LSiC (Center speaker)
6) POLKAUDIO LSi15 LEFT (Front speaker)
7) POLKAUDIO LSi15 RIGHT (Front speaker)
8) POLKAUDIO LSif/x LEFT (Surround speaker)
9) POLKAUDIO LSif/x RIGHT (Surround speaker)
10) SONY SA-WP16 ( Sub Woofer 2X200W)

bopicasso

Definately go with a external amp. Compared to using just a avr which wont do your speakers justice, the difference is huge!

devani

external amp will awaken your LSi series speakers....no AVR will truly make the LSi15 sing....

without knowing the dimensions of your room, it will be hard to tell you what the effects are....any carpets, furniture, open areas, or size/shape they all contribute to the total sound....

When I do recording with Mac and MOTU, number of people (over 200) also have an affect on the sound...

Bernal

bopicasso wrote: »

Definately go with a external amp. Compared to using just a avr which wont do your speakers justice, the difference is huge!

This graph shows that the AVR-4308CI's left channel, from Multi input to speaker output with two channels driving 8-ohm loads, reached 0.1% distortion at 198.6 watts and 1% distortion at 218.9 watts. The distortion level remained at or below 0.002% across all power levels until it reached about 165 watts. Into 4 ohms, the amplifier reached 0.1% distortion at 298.0 watts and 1% distortion at 343.4 watts.

With five channels driven continuously into 8-ohm loads, the receiver reached 0.1% distortion at 144.8 watts and 1% distortion at 173.6 watts. With seven channels driven continuously into 8-ohm loads, it reached 0.1% distortion at 124.5 watts and 1% distortion at 150.3 watts.

cfrizz

Bernal, we couldn't care less what any graph says. Most of us have heard the difference between what a receiver can do (regardless of how much money spent on it.) and what a powerful amplifier can do.

Most of us have seen too many newbies come on talking about their blown LSI run off of a receiver or said receiver going into protect mode.

I'm happy you are enjoying your LSI's with your Denon. (which isn't rated to drive 4ohm speakers) But I would suggest not getting crazy with the volume. And when you have the money step up to an amp & find out what your LSI's are TRULY capable of.

Rocco1

Bernal wrote: »

This graph shows that the AVR-4308CI's left channel, from Multi input to speaker output with two channels driving 8-ohm loads, reached 0.1% distortion at 198.6 watts and 1% distortion at 218.9 watts. The distortion level remained at or below 0.002% across all power levels until it reached about 165 watts. Into 4 ohms, the amplifier reached 0.1% distortion at 298.0 watts and 1% distortion at 343.4 watts.

With five channels driven continuously into 8-ohm loads, the receiver reached 0.1% distortion at 144.8 watts and 1% distortion at 173.6 watts. With seven channels driven continuously into 8-ohm loads, it reached 0.1% distortion at 124.5 watts and 1% distortion at 150.3 watts.

Beranl,

Hook up a amp to your system and then tell us if you hear a difference.
It doesnt matter what reciever you run or if you think its the best, a dedicated piece or equipment is better. (especially and amp)

Rocco1

looks like me and cfrizz had the same thought at the same time

Bernal

cfrizz wrote: »

Bernal, we couldn't care less what any graph says. Most of us have heard the difference between what a receiver can do (regardless of how much money spent on it.) and what a powerful amplifier can do.

Most of us have seen too many newbies come on talking about their blown LSI run off of a receiver or said receiver going into protect mode.

I'm happy you are enjoying your LSI's with your Denon. (which isn't rated to drive 4ohm speakers) But I would suggest not getting crazy with the volume. And when you have the money step up to an amp & find out what your LSI's are TRULY capable of.

The topic generates a lot of doubts? The contradictory information on the Internet. I want to be sure before investing in an amplifier. Other recommendations. Eg. amp Thank you...

McLoki

Bernal wrote: »

This graph shows that the AVR-4308CI's left channel, from Multi input to speaker output with two channels driving 8-ohm loads, reached 0.1% distortion at 198.6 watts and 1% distortion at 218.9 watts. The distortion level remained at or below 0.002% across all power levels until it reached about 165 watts. Into 4 ohms, the amplifier reached 0.1% distortion at 298.0 watts and 1% distortion at 343.4 watts.

With five channels driven continuously into 8-ohm loads, the receiver reached 0.1% distortion at 144.8 watts and 1% distortion at 173.6 watts. With seven channels driven continuously into 8-ohm loads, it reached 0.1% distortion at 124.5 watts and 1% distortion at 150.3 watts.

From page 13 of the manual for your AVR (under connecting the speaker cables):

Use speakers with an impedance of 6 to 16 Ω/ohms. When using
surround A and B speakers simultaneously, use speakers with an
impedance of 8 to 16 Ω/ohms.

from the section on the protection circuit. (also page 13):

If speakers with an impedance lower than specified (for example
4 Ω/ohms speakers) are used for an extended period of time with
the volume turned up high, the temperature may rise, activating the
protection circuit.
When the protection circuit is activated, the speaker output is shut
off and the power indicator flashes red. If this happens, unplug
the power cord, then check the speaker cable and input cable
connections. If the set is extremely hot, wait for it to cool off and
improve ventilation around it. Once this is done, plug the power cord
back in and turn the set's power back on.
If the protection circuit is activated again even though there are no
problems in the ventilation around the set nor in the connections,
the set may be damaged. Turn the power off, then contact a DENON
service center.

Run what you want - but Denon does not recommend it. Might want to keep that in mind when giving advice.

Michael

ben62670

Bernal wrote: »

The topic generates a lot of doubts? The contradictory information on the Internet. I want to be sure before investing in an amplifier. Other recommendations. Eg. amp Thank you...

Thanks for dropping in. I do appreciate what you are trying to say, but receivers don't have the juice to drive LSi's. Spend a little time searching and reading what many here have discovered when hooking up an amp to LSi's;)
Ben

cfrizz

Yes there is a lot of contradictory info to be found on the internet. However, you are on the Polk forum with lots of Polk LSI users ALL telling you the same thing.

We can't all be wrong with the number of years people have had their speakers with time to find out the differences.

Brands of amps we like around here are numerous. Parasound, Rotel, Sunfire, B & K, Outlaw, Emotiva, Adcom, Nad are just a few.

You can get more bang for your buck if you buy used on audiogon, or keep your eye out for a good deal on here.

Bernal wrote: »

The topic generates a lot of doubts? The contradictory information on the Internet. I want to be sure before investing in an amplifier. Other recommendations. Eg. amp Thank you...

ben62670

Oops forgot to add the impedance of the 9's can drop to around 2 ohms. When this happens the amp clips sending a burst of dirty power to the drivers, and tweeters/XO components fry.

Jetmaker737

I was running my LSi 15's off my Onkyo 805 and getting what I thought was good sound at moderate levels. Admittedly the sound fell apart at higher levels. Once I hooked up a separate amp (Emotiva RPA-2), the sound quality improved noticeably at moderate volumes and by orders of magnitude at higher levels.

arnaudh

I came across an acquaintance who is trying to get rid of a pair of SRS 3.1TLs. First owner, and he took good care of them.

Now I was wondering if I shouldn't settle for those for now instead of LSi15s as front.

But I have a few questions:

- I'm not familiar with SDAs, so those of you who are, what's so special about their sound?

- Coupled with LSi9s as rears and a LSiC and driven by an Emo XPA-5, does that sound like a somewhat compatible set?

- I'm a big movie guy. Will I get a movie-friendly sound with those, coupled with the LSiC and LSi9s?

Or should I wait a little longer to save and get some brand new LSi15s as fronts?

cfrizz

apples & oranges as far as speakers go. Just make sure you have LOTS of room for the SDA's!

arnaudh

cfrizz wrote: »

apples & oranges as far as speakers go. Just make sure you have LOTS of room for the SDA's!

Plenty of room - that's the good news. But yes, I'm a bit afraid of the discrepancy between the 3.1TLs and the LSiC - completely different set. I guess once I move to a pair of LSi15s or 25s, I could find room in another room for the SDAs, or takers in here

ben62670

It won't be a bad match. The 3.1's are cheap to upgrade the tweeters on. You only need two. You won't be settling for the 3.1's. Properly setup most would prefer them over the LSI's.
Ben

McLoki

Once you upgrade the tweeters, they are supposed to be a decent match to the LSi Line. I would go for it if I were you.