Any body builder in here?

organ

Man I just got back into it because I finally found a protein shake that taste absolutely fantastic (Isoflex), so I don't mind drinking several of those a day to bulk up.

Now I just have a few questions.... Is it completely necessary to get the 'pump' in every workout in order to increase size? Or can you just try to get it once a week and the rest can be a 'good workout'?

I'm currently using Creatine suppliments. I am getting pretty good results. I can workout longer and I have more strength since I started taking it. I'm taking "Green Bulge" by Controlled labs.
There are some things I'm not quite clear about. Do you have to cycle Creatine? I heard it builds up in your liver and can cause problems. One guy at the supplement shop told me there is no need to cycle and another guy said 12 weeks on and 12 weeks off. Will you lose some of your size when you're off the creatine?

Thanks

zarrdoss

I just got going again after a 2 month break and was taking creatine every day for over a year and didnt have any problems, but you have to drink alot of watter while you are on it. I never lost any size when I was off it.
I work out every day just a different group of mucles, 4 sets of 8-12 reps working to failure on every set, I would suggest feeling that pump for faster increase also doing the movement slow seems to have better results for me.

Airplay355

I've taken creatine before and definitely lost strength and size when off of it. That's one of the downsides, it's not something you can take to make you lift more and then expect those gains to hang around.

The theory behind creatine is that a phosphate can be added to it to create a molecule of creatine phosphate. In times when your muscles need more ATP (the molecule your cells use for energy) then they can produce, like when you are lifting, they can break the phosphate bond on creatine instead of one of the phosphate bonds on ATP. So, no creatine means no extra phosphate bonds to break, so less energy hanging around. There's also a theoretical issue about supplementing creatine causing a down regulation of natural creatine production so when you stop taking it, it takes your body a little time to catch up leaving you with less creatine in your muscles then when you weren't taking anything at all.

snow

Zero wrote: »

I found that if you already look good, you won't need body building.

:D:D

I have always said good looks/ beauty is only a lightswitch away.

REGARDS SNOW

Ender

snow wrote: »

:D:D

I have always said good looks/ beauty is only a lightswitch away.

REGARDS SNOW

Or a few drinks...

dragon1952

You got back into lifting because of a milkshake Must be one good freakin' milkshake.....or else a really bad one that made you quit in the first place

As for the pump, I don't think I've ever worked out where I didn't get a good pump.....even a moderately light workout. All I've got to do is look at a weight and I get a pump. Seriously, you'd have to spend the enitre workout just talking to chicks to not get a pump, and then you'd still probably get one anyway

organ

Zarrdoss,
Thanks for the info. Looks like it's 50/50 wether the size gained from creatine remains. I will cycle after 3 months and see what happens. I'm at week 2 now.
I agree about lifting slowly. Sometimes I would hold it there for a while until it feels like the muscle is about to explode. I love it.

Airplay,
Sorry to hear it didn't work out for you after you stopped. That's what I'm afraid of. I'll see what happens when I cycle.
I read about the ATP stuff. It's very interesting. That's how I was able to push it even more without too much lactic acid pain.

Zero,
Aw you're so mean, Sean. I've been working out for 11 years. The results kept me going back. But that's not it. Getting the pump feels so amazing. But the BEST part is the endorphine rush! (aka "runner's high"). When you hit a crazy workout and work your muscles to complete failure like Zarrdoss mentioned, you get one of the best high. Pure euphoria. When I push hard, I can get it for about 48hrs. Arnold S. once said, it feels better than sex lol.

Dragon,
Yeah, it's an effin good shake. I was using a different brand in the past, but it was too thick and didn't taste good. I was forcing myself to drink them and finally stopped until I found the new one.
I'm using the shakes as supplements between meals to increase protein intake and pack on the muscles.

Willow

organ wrote: »

Arnold S. once said, it feels better than sex lol. QUOTE]

Hmmm, guess he was not having great sex then..... I'd take sex over working out anytime.
Back on track now. I've also been thinking of taking Creatine again. Now I'm on iso whey for after and protein meal replacement during the day. I must say, it does do a number on my stomach for the first week or so. Not looking forward to getting back on it (didn't take while I was away on vacation) Need to start up again this weekend. But as for the creatine, I found it beneficial as well. I didn't cycle it,but I have heard you should that or drink tons of water which is also not an issue for me as that's what I drink most in a day. Might give it a go this weekend and buy some...

Ricardo

organ wrote: »

When you hit a crazy workout and work your muscles to complete failure

Trying to digest this and understand why I think it's supposed to sound like a good thing

To each its own I guess.

BigMac

organ wrote: »

Man I just got back into it because I finally found a protein shake that taste absolutely fantastic (Isoflex), so I don't mind drinking several of those a day to bulk up.

Now I just have a few questions.... Is it completely necessary to get the 'pump' in every workout in order to increase size? Or can you just try to get it once a week and the rest can be a 'good workout'?

I'm currently using Creatine suppliments. I am getting pretty good results. I can workout longer and I have more strength since I started taking it. I'm taking "Green Bulge" by Controlled labs.
There are some things I'm not quite clear about. Do you have to cycle Creatine? I heard it builds up in your liver and can cause problems. One guy at the supplement shop told me there is no need to cycle and another guy said 12 weeks on and 12 weeks off. Will you lose some of your size when you're off the creatine?

Thanks

Hi. I am a personal trainer and bodybuilder. The "pump" you mention is attained when you flood the muscle(s) with blood. The easiest way to attain a "pump" is to use lesser weight and higher reps. It allows you to focus more on the specific muscle you are training (ever heard of the mind/muscle connection) while not using surrounding muscles to complete the rep. Think of pumping up a basketball or football with a manual air pump; basically the same for your muscles but instead of air it's blood.

When heavier weight is used you cannot as easily focus directly on a specific muscle (isolation) and additional muscles aid in completing a rep. When training heavy the "pump" will not always be attained. Many factors contribute to this but there is no need to worry. Diet,water,carbs,protein,and the list goes on and on play a direct role in a pump and gaining size.

The question you asked about cycling creatine is as a debated subject as speaker wire and interconnects in audio. Some say to cycle and some say there is no need. There are a gazillion studies that favor both sides. I personally found no need to stack the first week or cycle on and off creatine. All creatine really does is make you hold more water and will give temporary increases in strength (how much depends on each individual). When you go off of creatine you will lose some weight (water weight) and will notice a slight decrease in strength. If while on creatine you followed you strength program you should notice and overall increase in strength though. Remember that it's important to always switch up your routine every 6-8 weeks so your body does not plateau. You need to always keep your body/muscles guessing.

Airplay355

You get less lactic acid build up because lactic acid is a product of anaerobic respiration. If you have the extra phosphate bonds hanging around your muscles won't need to resort to anaerobic respiration as fast as they would if you didn't have them there.

I also wouldn't recommend taking the dosage on the bottle. Depending on the manufacture it's usually pretty high and you end up peeing out a lot of what you just drank. You'll know you're peeing it out too, because it will smell like creatine piss. Generally not great for your kidneys and a total waste of your money.

Be careful with how much protein you you're eating/drinking too. You don't need nearly as much protein as most people believe. Only about 10% of your total caloric intake needs to be protein any more then that can set you up for nasty diseases when you're older, like diabetes, osteoporosis, cardiovascular disease. If you want to see the studies showing this I could dig them out of the med school library or you could check this book out http://astore.amazon.com/wsdm-20/detail/1583333002/104-6745254-8710355 . I saw a presentation by the authors colleagues on Monday and it was pretty shocking. Why does this apply to you? Well during the presentation the Doc was talking about a NFL player friend of his who was worried about dieing early http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2313476 . It would be easy to chalk that up as they beat the crap out of each other on the field, except no amount of tackling is going to cause coronary artery disease. The Doc who wrote the book I linked did studies involving animal protein and found eating upwards of 10% animal protein increases your risk for all of those diseases in a pretty linear fashion. This is for animal protein though, wheat and soy protein didn't cause the diseases.

I'm not trying to tell you what to do or anything, just trying to share some info. I figure it's best to learn about it sooner rather then later.

NJPOLKER

I work out on a daily basis, well maybe not daily but 4-5 times a week. Lifting those Budweisers any more than that you'd think I had a drinking problem. Pumped? I've had a lot of blood pumping to my head after a hard night.

wingnut4772

I know I'm just a silly girl but FWIW the Cissus I am taking gives me a super pump when I am working out. In the last two weeks I have gotten several compliments on my arms.
Look up Super Cissus RX. I am taking it for my shoulder. (i know I know. The DVD!):p

BigMac

Zero wrote: »

I found that if you already look good, you won't need body building.

Not everyone needs to add muscle so bodybuilding may not be optimal. Working out for general health is recommended though. We have a saying in the industry, "skinny-fat". I will explain. Think of a hot supermodel guy/gal that looks good,has a smokin' body and so on. That's all fine and dandy but put them through a few exercises and you will see that many of them are as out of shape or even more so than the average person. They look good on the outside but inside they are just as unhealthy as an overweight person in a manner of speaking. I'll explain it like this (in car talk); What's the purpose of having a showcar that looks great on the outside but when you look at the interior or under the hood it looks like crap? In the long run the car will give you all kinds of issues and will dollar you to death. The same with your body!!

BigMac

wingnut4772 wrote: »

I know I'm just a silly girl but FWIW the Cissus I am taking gives me a super pump when I am working out. In the last two weeks I have gotten several compliments on my arms.
Look up Super Cissus RX. I am taking it for my shoulder. (i know I know. The DVD!):p

That's some good stuff. Glad you are liking it and it's work well for you.

ben62670

wingnut4772 wrote: »

I know I'm just a silly girl but FWIW the Cissus I am taking gives me a super pump when I am working out. In the last two weeks I have gotten several compliments on my arms.
Look up Super Cissus RX. I am taking it for my shoulder. (i know I know. The DVD!):p

How can anyone not love you:)

wingnut4772

ben62670 wrote: »

how can anyone not love you:)

lol. !!!:D

snow

organ wrote: »

Getting the pump feels so amazing. But the BEST part is the endorphine rush! (aka "runner's high"). When you hit a crazy workout and work your muscles to complete failure like Zarrdoss mentioned, you get one of the best high. Pure euphoria. When I push hard, I can get it for about 48hrs. Arnold S. once said, it feels better than sex lol.

Willow wrote: »

Hmmm, guess he was not having great sex then..... I'd take sex over working out anytime.

You know guys it can be both, a great workout and sex it doesnt have to be 10 mins :eek:



REGARDS SNOW

ben62670

snow wrote: »

You know guys it can be both, a great workout and sex it doesnt have to be 10 mins :eek:



REGARDS SNOW

I can get both done in less than 5 minutes without a partner;)

Ender

ben62670 wrote: »

i can get both done in less than 5 minutes without a partner;)

tmif

BIZILL

sucks that you had to quote it and further force me to scroll down. lol.

anyway, yeah, creatine causes a decrease in size for me when i go off for sure. but as has been said, it's water weight. i believe in creatine, but i also believe in the placebo effect. i welcome both. ANYTHING to give me drive to do dreaded squats after a day of work and sitting on my **** for 9 hours. i used to love working out. now i only do it for results. i don't enjoy it as i do it anymore.

cnh

I don't use most any supplements besides protein, but hey I'm getting old, never lifted for Body Building, but for strength. At my age what you need is Glucosamine/Chondroitin/MSM, etc. Might be placebo, maybe not. But I was getting so stiff in my 40s that it wasn't until I started dumping shark cartilidge and a number of other items that I was able to keep lifting.

I'm a great believer in all natural supplements, I suppose Creatine meets those criteria. Never used it.

cnh

dragon1952

Back when I was making my best gains (about 12-13 yrs ago), I was buying these fruit flavored bottled drinks I'd buy by the case. They were 22 oz with about 60 gms of protein in the form of amino acids, and 45 gms of complex carbohydrates in the form of maltodextrin, and were about 500 cals. I'd drink one slowly during every workout, and a little bit in between if I didn't eat right that day. Pretty simple by today's standards I guess, but it worked with no side effects.

zarrdoss

Thats some really good info guys, either stuff I did not know or forgot. well got to get back at it while I still have some energy.

Airplay355

FYI all proteins are made of amino acids

MacLeod

Ive been a weightlifter for 20 years and have been experimenting and using creatine for almost as long. Granted Im not a bodybuilder. Ive never tried to have cuts or proportion or symmetry Ive just always wanted to be big and strong. I started out weighing 160 pounds and bench pressing 185. At my peak I was 255 benching 425 and squatting 600. 100% NATURAL! Creatine was a big part of that.

The beauty of creatine is that it doesnt do anything for you. Unlike roids which artificially build the muscle, creatine simply gives you a little more gas so you can squeeze out a rep or 2, and that overload is where muscle building takes place.

Now if youre just starting out lifting, you dont need creatine because everything you do right now will work. After a year or two of lifting or when you start to plateau thats when you start using creatine. You dont need that "super overload" rep that creatine will give you because your body hasnt adapted to the normal overload reps yet.

The biggest BS about creatine is the "loading" phase. This is put forth simply to sell more creatine. Ive tried several different ways and what seems to work best for me at least is 5 grams after each workout. Im not sold on cycling but every few months Ill take a week off of creatine.

As for the pump, Im not a big believer in this from a sense of getting bigger and stronger. If youre wanting to increase size and strength the only way to do that naturally is to wipe out your muscles and a pump doesnt always mean a particular muscle is toast. For that go by feel . If you cant reach up to scratch your nose, your biceps are shot regardless if theyve got a great pump or not.

Also pay attention to how sore you are the next day or 2 after training a particular muscle group. The wimpy guys will tell you being sore means youre training too hard. This is BS. Im not saying you should be so sore you cant move without crippling pain but you should have some good deep soreness. This is a sign you toasted that muscle group and given proper recuperation time and nutrition itll bounce back even stronger.

exalted512

MacLeod wrote: »

Ive been a weightlifter for 20 years and have been experimenting and using creatine for almost as long.

holy crap, youve been lifting almost as long as I've been alive...man you're old!:p:p

When I was in high school, I was 150 lbs benching 245. Now I'm like 160 and probably benching closer to 170...lol. I never took anything other than protein. I havent consistently lifted weights in about 4 years. Hopefully that'll change after I graduate. If it does, I will start using creatine about 8 months into it. Like Mac said, when you just start out, it can be kind of worthless.
-Cody

Jstas

Man, I got this protien drink that is just awesome! It's made by this company called Yuengling. Stuff tastes like beer! It's awesome!

Oh, wait.

Airplay355

+1 to what Mac said.

BIZILL

damn you mac. you big guys with your genetics. i'm that skinny guy that had to train super-hard to gain one damn pound. i only peaked at 200 lbs and that was as far as i ever got. i was 155 in high school so i guess that's decent gain. and i know what you mean about not being able to touch your nose. what was even funkier was 30 mins after doing squats going from sitting down to trying to stand up and then all of the sudden your legs give out and YOU FALL BACK DOWN ON YOUR ****! LOLOLOLOL.

alas, i don't get those insane workouts anymore. i think my body has dished out about all it had to give. i gots no more.

dragon1952

Airplay355 wrote: »

FYI all proteins are made of amino acids

No **** Sherlock...but most sources have to be broken down and some are already broken down.