Excellent read...

steveinaz

http://www.stereophile.com/asweseeit/how_high_do_you_want_your_fi/

cnh

An interesting piece that lays bare some of the Holy Grail quests people are on.

Here's an issue that's a bit off topic and maybe I'm off the wall. But in addition to 'room effects' which have always driven me CRAZY! I have noticed that, or at least I think I've heard the difference, my system sounds 'different' on different days. And I loosely correlate this with things like humidity and barometric pressure changes? Am I just imagining things or would that 'also' affect what things sound like in your room? Because I swear it sounds different--more dynamic some days than others! IN the same room, same amp, same CD, same speakers?

cnh

F1nut

Indeed.

megasat16

Excellent Read! Thanks Steve!

AudioGenics

excellent.

steveinaz

cnh wrote: »

An interesting piece that lays bare some of the Holy Grail quests people are on.

Here's an issue that's a bit off topic and maybe I'm off the wall. But in addition to 'room effects' which have always driven me CRAZY! I have noticed that, or at least I think I've heard the difference, my system sounds 'different' on different days. And I loosely correlate this with things like humidity and barometric pressure changes? Am I just imagining things or would that 'also' affect what things sound like in your room? Because I swear it sounds different--more dynamic some days than others! IN the same room, same amp, same CD, same speakers?

cnh

One theory is heavy use of the "power grid" personally, I don't know...but I think everyone experiences this from time to time.

steveinaz

That article is one of those "are you sure you want to know the truth?" things. Our perception of music is guided only by what we know and/or believe to be accurate. Unless you grew up with a father that was a recording engineer, and had exposure to real music, must of us don't have a clue.

rayslifecycle

cnh wrote: »

An interesting piece that lays bare some of the Holy Grail quests people are on.

Here's an issue that's a bit off topic and maybe I'm off the wall. But in addition to 'room effects' which have always driven me CRAZY! I have noticed that, or at least I think I've heard the difference, my system sounds 'different' on different days. And I loosely correlate this with things like humidity and barometric pressure changes? Am I just imagining things or would that 'also' affect what things sound like in your room? Because I swear it sounds different--more dynamic some days than others! IN the same room, same amp, same CD, same speakers?

cnh

steveinaz wrote: »

One theory is heavy use of the "power grid" personally, I don't know...but I think everyone experiences this from time to time.

I agree - the best time to listen on the east coast is 5am........that is when the system sounds the best........I am sure it has to do with how little else is happenning at the same time.

Disc Jockey

Nice read, and very true. I checked to see if my local library had a copy of the "A Meeting by the River" cd he referenced in the article. They do not but ironically enough, Bruce Springsteen's "Born to Run" came back in the search results.

George Grand

I can't stand The Boss, but "Born to Run" is a mother of a song, and the copy of "Meeting By The River" that I had, I gave away years ago to Bob McG who we haven't heard from in much too long.

BlueFox

If we have perfect playback then, of course, we need perfect recordigs to play back. One thing that has amused me is as I have acquired better equipment, tuned the room, etc., in various classical pieces I am hearing what sounds like moving chairs, hitting some stand, tripping over something , coughing, etc.

John30_30

cnh wrote: »

An interesting piece that lays bare some of the Holy Grail quests people are on.

Here's an issue that's a bit off topic and maybe I'm off the wall. But in addition to 'room effects' which have always driven me CRAZY! I have noticed that, or at least I think I've heard the difference, my system sounds 'different' on different days. And I loosely correlate this with things like humidity and barometric pressure changes? Am I just imagining things or would that 'also' affect what things sound like in your room? Because I swear it sounds different--more dynamic some days than others! IN the same room, same amp, same CD, same speakers?

cnh

Without a doubt. You know, in India, there's whole genres of ragas that have their definite season and time of day to be played, and you're not supposed to break those tonal rules.
They even have a legend about a famous singer who was commanded by the Emperor to sing a midnight raga at noon. When he finally relented on threat of decapitation, the city went dark.

Also, I really like that recording he mentions with Ry Cooder and V.M.Bhatt. But only certain times of the day and year, like summer afternoons. ;-)

apphd

Great link Steve, thanks

cnh I don't think you're hearing things. Power grid, humidity can all have an effect. Look at the number of people that install and run dedicated circuits. The number of people that upgrade power cords. Look at sound in nature, and how it travels through different density objects (solid, water, air) higher humidity = denser air. Also depending on where you live (I'm in the NE) winter/summer has a pretty large swing in humidity. With no air conditioning I can see some changes in the whole house, the wood structure, carpet, drapes, furniture all absorb some of this humidity in the summer and eventually shed it in the winter changing room acoustics. Having an ear and system that shows a big change in sound is something I lack, but I think it makes sense that it is there.

steveinaz wrote: »

One theory is heavy use of the "power grid" personally, I don't know...but I think everyone experiences this from time to time.

cnh wrote: »

An interesting piece that lays bare some of the Holy Grail quests people are on.

Here's an issue that's a bit off topic and maybe I'm off the wall. But in addition to 'room effects' which have always driven me CRAZY! I have noticed that, or at least I think I've heard the difference, my system sounds 'different' on different days. And I loosely correlate this with things like humidity and barometric pressure changes? Am I just imagining things or would that 'also' affect what things sound like in your room? Because I swear it sounds different--more dynamic some days than others! IN the same room, same amp, same CD, same speakers?

cnh

markmarc

A well-thought out piece. I've met plenty of audio fanatics over the years who live for what the gear does, instead of the music. My ultimate goal is always to be able to get lost in the music.

Early B.

A writer for Stereophile is just figuring this out? Geez. He should visit the Polk Forum. We could have schooled him on this ages ago.

I thiink it's crazy for anyone to expect a two-channel stereo system to sound anything like the real thing. Hell, the real thing rarely sounds like it ought to. The most you can hope for is a pleasing sound, regardless of whether it's live or recorded.

steveinaz

Being the audio geeks many of us are, sometimes it's hard to not focus on the equipment. It really should be about the music...

steveinaz

Early B. wrote: »

A writer for Stereophile is just figuring this out? Geez. He should visit the Polk Forum. We could have schooled him on this ages ago.

I thiink it's crazy for anyone to expect a two-channel stereo system to sound anything like the real thing. Hell, the real thing rarely sounds like it ought to. The most you can hope for is a pleasing sound, regardless of whether it's live or recorded.

I think the points they were trying to convey were; 1) stop over-analyzing your equipment and enjoy the music 2) even the finest top-dollar stuff can't fix a bad recording, so don't get wrapped around the axle trying to fix what will never be right.

Erik Tracy

steveinaz wrote: »

... even the finest top-dollar stuff can't fix a bad recording, so don't get wrapped around the axle trying to fix what will never be right.

So very true....but hard to let go of....

Some recordings are best relagated to the cassette player in the pickup with the volume cranked and the windows down for best sentimental enjoyment.

cfrizz

Hello! I've been saying this since I got here!:D

Early B. wrote: »

A writer for Stereophile is just figuring this out? Geez. He should visit the Polk Forum. We could have schooled him on this ages ago.

I thiink it's crazy for anyone to expect a two-channel stereo system to sound anything like the real thing. Hell, the real thing rarely sounds like it ought to. The most you can hope for is a pleasing sound, regardless of whether it's live or recorded.

Hillbilly61

markmarc wrote: »

A well-thought out piece. I've met plenty of audio fanatics over the years who live for what the gear does, instead of the music. My ultimate goal is always to be able to get lost in the music.

I think that article was a very good reminder that, ultimately, the music/sounds we get from our systems is limited by the source material. I am largely in the camp that it's all about the sound. With that comes the interest in the gear, as in general, the better the gear is the more like the sound reproduction is better. So, I look at stuff better than what I have, read reviews and, occasionally, buy something.

Topic wise, I think that is where things diverge, as we are all hostage to the gear we use ... hence the passion concerning the gear and coloration that experience & opinions bring to the table. Are there gear fanatics out there? Sure, plenty. That's their gig and good for them. This is really no different than any other interest ... motoring, computing, home improvement, etc. To me, such folks represent a great wealth of knowlege, admiration for having more or less mastered a topic and, occasionally, someone I pity.

ben62670

steveinaz wrote: »

That article is one of those "are you sure you want to know the truth?" things. Our perception of music is guided only by what we know and/or believe to be accurate. Unless you grew up with a father that was a recording engineer, and had exposure to real music, must of us don't have a clue.

Yep. Most people that claim a live recording of a sax, or another instrument sounds way too harsh haven't heard the bite of some of this music has up close and personal. I have a Sonny Rollins recording (under the bridge), and it is one of my favorite pieces to sit back and relax to. Most people don't like the near true sound it produces. The stuff that a lot of people listen to has been smoothed over to be more pleasing to the ear. Lightman and I go back and forth discussing on this topic again and again(we are on the same page;)). I am at the point of chasing good recordings. You can't put together a stereo that will reproduce the sound of the artists true sound on many albums. Too much mixing, and trying to smooth things over to please the masses, or compression to get it to play loud without the peaks that would distort systems not capable of handling the transients, and dynamics of "true" sound.

Zero wrote: »

You know, to an extent, I feel that the popular ‘it’s not about the gear’ statement is hogwash. In fact, I’ll submit that the reverse is true. Just as it’s ‘all about the music’, it’s also ‘all about the gear’.

....

So don’t be afraid of loving the gear that makes the music you enjoy sound even better. That’s what it’s there for. For me, discovering new music that touches the soul is nearly as enjoyable as discovering new electronics that do the same thing. Both music and gear form a symbiotic relationship to one another, and I enjoy discovering the many different interpretations of these artists and how they influence my overall experience.

Yep:)

danz1906

Listen to music, not your hi-fi.—Steve Guttenberg

Now that advice we can all live by.;)

Fongolio

It's about the sum of all the parts. Just like crappy room acoustics can make the best gear sound average, so can a crappy recording. So what's one to do? Well, my home music setup is really quite good at getting me to those wow places with good recordings. On the other hand I have a really loud big thump but pretty good sound quality system in my '89 IROC-Z. What it does well is loud and thumpy while driving on the highway. There is so much other noise happening like wind and road and engine that superb sound quality is lost anyway so loud and thumpy with minimal distortion is all that's left. That's where Born to Run gets played. And anything that sounds great really loud.

ND13

Does anyone, besides Guttenberg, actually use ANYTHING from Springsteen for reference material? There are only like two songs I don't immediately switch the tuner on when I hear them.

Great article other than "The Boss" having to be mentioned.

Pee Wee Herman, from "Cheech and Chong's Nice Dreams", got it right. You know what's wrong with today's rock and roll....Bruce Springsteen's **** it all up.

Erik Tracy

ND13 wrote: »

Does anyone, besides Guttenberg, actually use ANYTHING from Springsteen for reference material? There are only like two songs I don't immediately switch the tuner on when I hear them.

Great article other than "The Boss" having to be mentioned.

Pee Wee Herman, from "Cheech and Chong's Nice Dreams", got it right. You know what's wrong with today's rock and roll....Bruce Springsteen's **** it all up.

I suppose it might be different if I could understand what it is he mumbles about....;)

lightman1

markmarc wrote: »

A well-thought out piece. I've met plenty of audio fanatics over the years who live for what the gear does, instead of the music. My ultimate goal is always to be able to get lost in the music.

Thaks Mark.

lightman1

Early B. wrote: »

I thiink it's crazy for anyone to expect a two-channel stereo system to sound anything like the real thing. .

Tom? Your thoughts.
Nailed it, Brad.

lightman1

Zero wrote: »

You know, to an extent, I feel that the popular ‘it’s not about the gear’ statement is hogwash. In fact, I’ll submit that the reverse is true. Just as it’s ‘all about the music’, it’s also ‘all about the gear’.

Think about it for a moment. The whole reason hi-fi exists is to maximize the musical experience through extracting the most performance from a given playback medium, which most commonly is either vinyl or compact disc. Before most of us ever welcomed an expensive audio component into our lives, or even thought about such a thing, we all enjoyed music from a variety of low quality sources. If it were just ‘all about the music’, we would still be happily listening to our table-top radios as we roam about the home. If it were simply ‘all about the music’ and never ‘about the gear’, then there would be no Club Polk. Hi-Fi wouldn’t exist. Thankfully, art/music is a necessity component to a human life and we are charged with the drive to further develop and perfect it. Subsequently, at some point in time, each and every person here encountered an experience which inspired you to pursue your passion for music further. In the end, that’s what hi-fi is all about. It is a means which allows the listener (you) to take your existing passion for music and elevate it to another emotional and intellectual level.

So don’t be afraid of loving the gear that makes the music you enjoy sound even better. That’s what it’s there for. For me, discovering new music that touches the soul is nearly as enjoyable as discovering new electronics that do the same thing. Both music and gear form a symbiotic relationship to one another, and I enjoy discovering the many different interpretations of these artists and how they influence my overall experience.

I cried, from happiness.
Gear to music. Music to gear.
Thanks Zero.
Lightman

Jstas

Zero wrote: »

You know, to an extent, I feel that the popular ‘it’s not about the gear’ statement is hogwash. In fact, I’ll submit that the reverse is true. Just as it’s ‘all about the music’, it’s also ‘all about the gear’.

Think about it for a moment. The whole reason hi-fi exists is to maximize the musical experience through extracting the most performance from a given playback medium, which most commonly is either vinyl or compact disc. Before most of us ever welcomed an expensive audio component into our lives, or even thought about such a thing, we all enjoyed music from a variety of low quality sources. If it were just ‘all about the music’, we would still be happily listening to our table-top radios as we roam about the home. If it were simply ‘all about the music’ and never ‘about the gear’, then there would be no Club Polk. Hi-Fi wouldn’t exist. Thankfully, art/music is a necessity component to a human life and we are charged with the drive to further develop and perfect it. Subsequently, at some point in time, each and every person here encountered an experience which inspired you to pursue your passion for music further. In the end, that’s what hi-fi is all about. It is a means which allows the listener (you) to take your existing passion for music and elevate it to another emotional and intellectual level.

So don’t be afraid of loving the gear that makes the music you enjoy sound even better. That’s what it’s there for. For me, discovering new music that touches the soul is nearly as enjoyable as discovering new electronics that do the same thing. Both music and gear form a symbiotic relationship to one another, and I enjoy discovering the many different interpretations of these artists and how they influence my overall experience.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. You're just jealous because my speakers are bigger than yours and I have more KLH speakers than lightman could angrily brandish a stick at. :eek:

lightman1

Jstas wrote: »

Yeah, yeah, yeah. You're just jealous because my speakers are bigger than yours and I have more KLH speakers than lightman could angrily brandish a stick at. :eek:

WHAT?!! This won't do! Where's my stick?

Hawkeye

I have attempted to create a system that is pleasing to my ear in my house. Is it like the real thing? Close but no cigar and I can accept the limitations of both the home and live performance.

There is a small club here that has jazz quartets on the weekend. Poor acoustics, pots, pans, glasses clinking and conversations all going on at the same time and it is great time. The ambience, the emotion of the players which you can actually see and not have to imagine when home all add to the experience of music.

It has been raining here in MD for 3.5 days now and my gear sounds like crap. The dehumidifier has been going non stop, my ears are clogged and there is road repair going on in front of the house! So enviromental factors play a large part in how anything is going to operate.

I'm looking forward to 12/2012 when everything is in alignment! I might either blow the panels off my speakers or they will disappear (figuratively) which only happens on rare ocassions!

Gordon