GM Outs Wagoner

wz2p7j
wz2p7j Posts: 840
edited April 2009 in The Clubhouse
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/GM-CEO-Wagoner-forced-out-as-apf-14789111.html

I worked at GM for 25 years. Looks like GM and Obama booted Wagaoner. Wagoner certainly did some good things at GM but at the same time, the overall strategy and certainly the financial results just weren't there. Just wondering what folks outside the industry think. CA
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  • ND13
    ND13 Posts: 7,601
    edited March 2009
    Yeah and he walks away with $23 million. I'd sit on the bench for that, too.
    "SOME PEOPLE CALL ME MAURICE,
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  • polkatese
    polkatese Posts: 6,767
    edited March 2009
    Do you think he is smarter by 200 times of average workerbees like you and I, Noel?

    Amazing to see these CEOs who command that kind of package. pfft.
    I am sorry, I have no opinion on the matter. I am sure you do. So, don't mind me, I just want to talk audio and pie.
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  • ND13
    ND13 Posts: 7,601
    edited March 2009
    Nope, just likely born into the lucky gene pool.
    "SOME PEOPLE CALL ME MAURICE,
    CAUSE I SPEAK OF THE POMPITIOUS OF LOVE"
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  • Dennis Gardner
    Dennis Gardner Posts: 4,861
    edited March 2009
    I've got no issue with CEOs knockin' down huge salaries/bonuses for turning a company around or leading the industry in their segment, but a company that agrees to multi million dollar packages when the company is in the tank has something inherently wrong with the compensation package. Pay for great performance, but show 'em the door before they sink the ship.

    There are so few titans of industry anymore that have their names/reputations tied to a companies success today. CEOs are just another commodity albeit an expensive one....
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  • ND13
    ND13 Posts: 7,601
    edited March 2009
    You're right Dennis. I have no issue with someone making big bucks if they earn it. But $23 million to leave your seat of a failing company is a totally different scenario.
    "SOME PEOPLE CALL ME MAURICE,
    CAUSE I SPEAK OF THE POMPITIOUS OF LOVE"
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  • dorokusai
    dorokusai Posts: 25,577
    edited March 2009
    Wow, what will they do without the incredible foresight, ingenuity, standards and complex thinking that I'm sure he....as an executive provided. Hmmmm...nothing like smells better than the goverment handling my warranty claim.....mmmm delicious.
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  • obieone
    obieone Posts: 5,077
    edited March 2009
    "We're from the government. We're here to help"
    I refuse to argue with idiots, because people can't tell the DIFFERENCE!
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  • huggies
    huggies Posts: 149
    edited March 2009
    Being an ex airline mechanic, I know full well the bs compensation packages these clowns get. When United Airlines came out of bankruptcy, each of the board of directors were given 10,000 shares of the new post bankruptcy stock. Tilton, the CEO, at one point held 545,000 shares, although he is now at just over 300,000. All given to him as bonuses outside of his extraordinary salary, and pension subsidies. These guys all look after their own and could care less about the workers. To top it all off, United is not much better off post-bankruptcy than they were before. Yes, I'm bitter.
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  • huggies
    huggies Posts: 149
    edited March 2009
    Dennis Gardner wrote: »
    I've got no issue with CEOs knockin' down huge salaries/bonuses for turning a company around or leading the industry in their segment, but a company that agrees to multi million dollar packages when the company is in the tank has something inherently wrong with the compensation package. Pay for great performance, but show 'em the door before they sink the ship.

    There are so few titans of industry anymore that have their names/reputations tied to a companies success today. CEOs are just another commodity albeit an expensive one....




    The problem is that most of these compensation packages are awarded to get these executives to come on board the company. They reward them before they have done anything.
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  • tonyb
    tonyb Posts: 32,952
    edited March 2009
    huggies wrote: »
    The problem is that most of these compensation packages are awarded to get these executives to come on board the company. They reward them before they have done anything.

    Have to agree here.I have had the displeasure of being around a few CEO's and board members in my time,the wife currently deals with alot of them.The scam is they appoint all their friends,pals,to boards of companies they run.Or they slowly work them in.Then they rape those companies in compensation packages,that gets voted on by the board who is now,their friends.They think because they graduated Harvard,they deserve this type of compensation.They are better than you,see,anything less is an insult.There are some good Ceo's out there that get compensated by performance,go figure,and I don't have any problem with that,but these Bozo's that get 10's of millions while their company loses billions,is beyond me.The people who ran Freddie and Fanny into the ground,got major coin too,are they being asked to pay it back??Seems to me we have gotten to a point where failure is rewarded.Same goes for our government,almost every position held in congress,those people failed,yet are still there.I dunno,I can't figure it out,common sense left the building along time ago.
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  • tom t
    tom t Posts: 543
    edited March 2009
    i still say its scary when the president can fire someone from the private secter,loans or no loans
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  • John30_30
    John30_30 Posts: 1,024
    edited March 2009
    tom t wrote: »
    i still say its scary when the president can fire someone from the private secter,loans or no loans

    The guy was a mediocrity, under whose guidance the once-greatest corporation in the world is now hat in hand at the door of the Fed, dead without a bailout.
    That's what's scary. Keep your eye on the ball.



    YOU'RE FIRED!
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  • mhardy6647
    mhardy6647 Posts: 33,710
    edited March 2009
    Given that GM is a public corporation, the failure here (IMNSHO) was in the Board of Directors' (lack of) action. It is a shame that the Gov't had to step in -- and (I agree) a bit disconcerting that they could. The news media mentioned previous (somewhat) similar situations -- Truman tried to nationalize the steel industry, but the Supreme Court ruled it unconstitutional, and Reagan broke the Air Traffic Controller's union by firing all the ATCs when they were on strike. I am not so sure that the latter case is really terribly germane to the present situation with the Gov't and GM.
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  • PhantomOG
    PhantomOG Posts: 2,409
    edited March 2009
    tom t wrote: »
    i still say its scary when the president can fire someone from the private secter,loans or no loans

    Why is that so scary? We already jumped off that bridge when we handed over the billions of dollars of government money, we're just catching the scenery on the way down now. :(
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  • tom t
    tom t Posts: 543
    edited March 2009
    you are right about giving billions of dollars. but having goverment getting involved in firing,where does it end
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  • ND13
    ND13 Posts: 7,601
    edited March 2009
    tom t wrote: »
    you are right about giving billions of dollars. but having goverment getting involved in firing,where does it end

    With Socialism
    "SOME PEOPLE CALL ME MAURICE,
    CAUSE I SPEAK OF THE POMPITIOUS OF LOVE"
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  • tom t
    tom t Posts: 543
    edited March 2009
    thats what im afraid of
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  • obieone
    obieone Posts: 5,077
    edited March 2009
    After they fire ALL the exec's, who'll step in and run the place? The UAW?
    Maybe they can get one of those $130k/ yr. JANITORS to run the place!
    I refuse to argue with idiots, because people can't tell the DIFFERENCE!
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  • exalted512
    exalted512 Posts: 10,735
    edited March 2009
    I just wonder why the auto industry is getting so much attention when wall street and the banks...the people that got us in the mess in the first place, have received much more bail out money.
    -Cody
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  • PhantomOG
    PhantomOG Posts: 2,409
    edited March 2009
    exalted512 wrote: »
    I just wonder why the auto industry is getting so much attention when wall street and the banks...the people that got us in the mess in the first place, have received much more bail out money.
    -Cody

    As much as I hate it, I understand backing the banking industry. Its not about the jobs, its about public faith in banks in general. If a few banks started to fall like dominos, people would rush to their banks and take out all their money causing all of them to fall. Then we'd really be screwed. On top of that, at least most of the banks are VIABLE companies. People will always need banks, even in a bad economy.

    Regardless of how much money we throw at them or force exec's to be fired, a company that is not viable will not make a profit.

    Besides, hasn't AIG been like the top story for the past two weeks or so? I bet the automakers loved the spotlight being on someone else for awhile.
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  • exalted512
    exalted512 Posts: 10,735
    edited March 2009
    PhantomOG wrote: »
    As much as I hate it, I understand backing the banking industry. Its not about the jobs, its about public faith in banks in general. If a few banks started to fall like dominos, people would rush to their banks and take out all their money causing all of them to fall. Then we'd really be screwed. On top of that, at least most of the banks are VIABLE companies. People will always need banks, even in a bad economy.

    Regardless of how much money we throw at them or force exec's to be fired, a company that is not viable will not make a profit.

    Besides, hasn't AIG been like the top story for the past two weeks or so? I bet the automakers loved the spotlight being on someone else for awhile.

    I'm right there with you. And I'm not trying to say GM isnt at fault. But they probably wouldnt be nearly as bad off as they are if it wasnt for the banking/lending industries. And they've received a ton more money than any of the automakers. I understanding investing money in the banking industry, but I havent heard half as much controversy in giving the banks money (more on how theyre using it...bonuses, etc) as I have the auto industry. Were just as screwed if GM was to fail right now.
    -Cody
    Music is like candy, you have to get rid of the rappers to enjoy it
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  • ND13
    ND13 Posts: 7,601
    edited March 2009
    exalted512 wrote: »
    I'm right there with you. And I'm not trying to say GM isnt at fault. But they probably wouldnt be nearly as bad off as they are if it wasnt for the banking/lending industries. And they've received a ton more money than any of the automakers. I understanding investing money in the banking industry, but I havent heard half as much controversy in giving the banks money (more on how theyre using it...bonuses, etc) as I have the auto industry. Were just as screwed if GM was to fail right now.
    -Cody

    Bingo!!!

    Of the planned $1.7 trillion+ bailout(combined) has the auto industry actually received? What, so far $17.4 billion so far? I don't remember if they have given anymore yet. It's still a drop in huge bucket.
    "SOME PEOPLE CALL ME MAURICE,
    CAUSE I SPEAK OF THE POMPITIOUS OF LOVE"
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  • PhantomOG
    PhantomOG Posts: 2,409
    edited March 2009
    $150 million in bonuses at AIG is an even smaller drop in the bucket, but that doesn't make it right.
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  • sucks2beme
    sucks2beme Posts: 5,601
    edited March 2009
    obieone wrote: »
    After they fire ALL the exec's, who'll step in and run the place? The UAW?
    Maybe they can get one of those $130k/ yr. JANITORS to run the place!

    I'm sure there's a smart guy out there for a bargain $1M that can
    get the job done. Most of them are just bean counters.

    God knows that my company's execs aren't worth anything.
    The top four a few year's ago were stripped of their bonus
    due to fraud. These guys in place now are trying real hard to
    get theirs, and screw anyone else.
    "The legitimate powers of government extend to such acts only as are injurious to others. But it does me no injury for my neighbour to say there are twenty gods, or no god. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg." --Thomas Jefferson
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  • madmax
    madmax Posts: 12,434
    edited March 2009
    Without the top layer of management most companies would go bankrupt in a very short time due to mismanagement, mistakes, and mostly just because they would be missed.
    madmax
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  • ND13
    ND13 Posts: 7,601
    edited March 2009
    madmax wrote: »
    Without the top layer of management most companies would go bankrupt in a very short time due to mismanagement, mistakes, and mostly just because they would be missed.
    madmax

    Now that's funny.
    "SOME PEOPLE CALL ME MAURICE,
    CAUSE I SPEAK OF THE POMPITIOUS OF LOVE"
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  • MillerLiteScott
    MillerLiteScott Posts: 2,561
    edited March 2009
    GM and the other 2 got into the banking business also because they could make more money loaning money to people to buy their cars, than they could making the cars. They took their focus off the business of building cars to be greedy.
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  • tonyb
    tonyb Posts: 32,952
    edited March 2009
    MillerLiteScott wrote: »
    GM and the other 2 got into the banking business also because they could make more money loaning money to people to buy their cars, than they could making the cars. They took their focus off the business of building cars to be greedy.

    Not a matter of greed,but survival.You can't compete with one hand tied behind your back from outragious labor contracts.
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  • ND13
    ND13 Posts: 7,601
    edited March 2009
    They had to diversify. Every manufacturer that I know of has a financing division. GM is the only one that I can think of that HAD mortgages too. Now Cerebus owns that.
    "SOME PEOPLE CALL ME MAURICE,
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  • John30_30
    John30_30 Posts: 1,024
    edited April 2009
    MillerLiteScott wrote: »
    GM and the other 2 got into the banking business also because they could make more money loaning money to people to buy their cars, than they could making the cars. They took their focus off the business of building cars to be greedy.

    GMAC was doing okay 4 years ago and before, even when the parent company was in serious trouble. They weren't a greed thing if their rates were better than bank financing.
    Also they used to buy workers' homes at market rates to resell whenever a plant was closed and the workforce relocated.
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