Cable Q: pre-out "Y" to amp and sub

Erik Tracy

I'm considering running a "Y" out adapter from my avr pre-outs to feed both my external amp and sub.

What do other folks run for their "Y" adapter and do you run identical ICs from the "Y" to your amp and sub, or do you run different ICs to the amp that are different than your sub?

I would think from an impedance matching standpoint you would want all of the ICs to be the same type.

I was thinking using something from Audioquest - like their Copperhead, or Diamond backs or Audio Advisors equivalent the Black Mamba II for all 4 ICs (2 for the amp and 2 for the sub).

Thanks for your comments

Blownrx7

Erik,
The best Y adapter would use the same cable as the rest of your system.
You can actually make a Y-cable with the same wire, i.e one connector coming out of your receiver with two cables hard wired to that connector - a DIY affair if you are up for it.

Mixing and matching cables invites all kinds of variables/problems...
Ah, but in your application, one of those is going to the SUB (as opposed to another full range amp). Using a "Sub specific" cable would not be a bad thing. You could still build the Y-cable as above with two different cables. The point of this is to eliminate as many connection interfaces as possible since they are source of performance degradation.
Any impedance mismatch should be easily handled by your AVR

Short of that, any quality Y adapter should do. Audioquest makes a nice one and, dare I say it, Monster does too. Then just use whatever cable you are using for the rest of your system.

HTH

ben62670

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=091-510%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20&FTR=091-510&CFID=7721019&CFTOKEN=61919829
It doesn't matter if you mix and match cables. Some cables are better at highs, and some at lows. There is no issue splitting the signal.
Ben

Edit: Please tell me if the link works. If not the PN is 091-510. Also make sure that you have room for a splitter like this. These are much better than the cheap cable Y's.

Erik Tracy

ben62670 wrote: »

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=091-510%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20&FTR=091-510&CFID=7721019&CFTOKEN=61919829
It doesn't matter if you mix and match cables. Some cables are better at highs, and some at lows. There is no issue splitting the signal.
Ben

Edit: Please tell me if the link works. If not the PN is 091-510. Also make sure that you have room for a splitter like this. These are much better than the cheap cable Y's.

Yup - the link worked. Audio Advisor has the same part on their webpage.

I'll check to see if this will work in my rig for cable routing and space.

Thanks for the feedback!

Erik Tracy

Blownrx7 wrote: »

Erik,
The best Y adapter would use the same cable as the rest of your system.
You can actually make a Y-cable with the same wire, i.e one connector coming out of your receiver with two cables hard wired to that connector - a DIY affair if you are up for it.

Mixing and matching cables invites all kinds of variables/problems...
Ah, but in your application, one of those is going to the SUB (as opposed to another full range amp). Using a "Sub specific" cable would not be a bad thing. You could still build the Y-cable as above with two different cables. The point of this is to eliminate as many connection interfaces as possible since they are source of performance degradation.
Any impedance mismatch should be easily handled by your AVR

Short of that, any quality Y adapter should do. Audioquest makes a nice one and, dare I say it, Monster does too. Then just use whatever cable you are using for the rest of your system.

HTH

The hard y adapter won't fit behind my avr - too cramped with too many wires and posts.

But - I could put this on my amp and 'daisy chain' the avr pre-out to the hard y on my amp then run the second set of ICs from the adapter to my sub.

Would 'daisy chaining' be any different/worse that splitting directly from the back of the avr pre-outs? Electrically it seems the same.

WilliamM2

Blownrx7 wrote: »

Mixing and matching cables invites all kinds of variables/problems...

Could you please explain further what types of problems this might cause?

WilliamM2

Erik Tracy wrote: »

Would 'daisy chaining' be any different/worse that splitting directly from the back of the avr pre-outs? Electrically it seems the same.

It will be the same electrically. Another option is to use a splitter like this:

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=181-692

Blownrx7

WilliamM2 wrote: »

Could you please explain further what types of problems this might cause?

I probably should not have included that statement but since I put it out there...
I should have put it into the context of, say, from different sources. Some people try to "tune" their system this way.
For example, someone might feel that their CD player is too bright and use a "smoother" cable, BUT their turntable is a little too rolled off or slow and they use a more "detailed" cable.
I am not an advocate of this type of system matching. I prefer to try to get the source that sounds right in the first place and have the cables transmit the signal without any influence/coloration.

I will NOT say that is the wrong way to do it, just that it is not they way I prefer to do it. YMMV!

Sorry I derailed this...

reeltrouble1

Erik,

I have used many different kinds of splitters, the ones at Rat Shack Radio Shack brand seemed to work just fine for me. I suppose in a perfect world you could keep all the wire the same.

RT1

Mike21

Hi Erick.

I must be missing something. I do not understand why you would need a 'Y" splitter.

Aren't you driving your externl amp with the left and right front pre-outs and the sub with the sub/LFE preout?

Mike

Erik Tracy

Mike21 wrote: »

Hi Erick.

I must be missing something. I do not understand why you would need a 'Y" splitter.

Aren't you driving your externl amp with the left and right front pre-outs and the sub with the sub/LFE preout?

Mike

Yes. Amp fed from AVR pre-outs for Front L/R and Sub is LFE out connected.

But the issue is when I set my avr to Pure Direct mode for analog listening - the sub turns off.

So if I use a "Y" on the pre-outs I can line level connect the sub to the pre-outs and still have the sub on when I put the avr in Pure Direct.

I've got several things I'm going to experiment with....still waiting to hear if my avr will still direct outputs to the Zone2/3 pre-outs if in Pure Direct.

WilliamM2

Erik Tracy wrote: »

Yes. Amp fed from AVR pre-outs for Front L/R and Sub is LFE out connected.

But the issue is when I set my avr to Pure Direct mode for analog listening - the sub turns off.

So if I use a "Y" on the pre-outs I can line level connect the sub to the pre-outs and still have the sub on when I put the avr in Pure Direct.

I've got several things I'm going to experiment with....still waiting to hear if my avr will still direct outputs to the Zone2/3 pre-outs if in Pure Direct.

If you hook it up that way, you won't have any LFE channel going to the sub, and the crossover settings in the reciever will not have any effect either.

If you want a sub with two channel, put it in "direct" mode (no video though), or put it in "stereo 2 channel" mode.

Erik Tracy

WilliamM2 wrote: »

If you hook it up that way, you won't have any LFE channel going to the sub, and the crossover settings in the reciever will not have any effect either.

If you want a sub with two channel, put it in "direct" mode (no video though), or put it in "stereo 2 channel" mode.

I can direct LFE to the sub if I set my avr up so that LFE/Bass=Fronts because the sub is "Y" directly from the avr pre-outs for the Fronts.

Yes - I can get sub output via the LFE/out from the avr in two channel, but when I do, then any analog inputs will be processed by my avr and use the avr's DACs - which defeats my attempt to use better DACs from analog inputs.

And for my avr, if I use the 'direct' mode (which is 'Pure Direct' for Yamahas), then the sub shuts off when connected via LFE.

ben62670

On my DVD player I can set it to no sub, and LFE to R+L. Then on the AVR I set it to no Sub, and send LFE to R+L. I am certainly not an expert when it comes to HT though.
Ben

WilliamM2

Erik Tracy wrote: »

And for my avr, if I use the 'direct' mode (which is 'Pure Direct' for Yamahas), then the sub shuts off when connected via LFE.

I have the same AVR, my mistake, I meant "Straight" mode. You will still have a sub in this mode with no effects, but I am not sure about the D/A conversion, all my sources are digital. What source are you trying to use the analog outputs of?

Erik Tracy

WilliamM2 wrote: »

I have the same AVR, my mistake, I meant "Straight" mode. You will still have a sub in this mode with no effects, but I am not sure about the D/A conversion, all my sources are digital.

I made some inquiries and even contacted Yamaha Support - the consensus is that for "Straight" - any analog inputs would go thru the V1800 ADCs, but skip DSP modes, and use the V1800 DACs.

And, I'll admit, I'm being nit picky and to some I'm deluding myself that there are actual sonic differences in components, but I did my own evaluation and prefer source DACs for CDs and not to convert my analog phono inputs at all.

Hence my quandary on a configuration that allows me the 'luxury' of doing both modes for LFE/Bass management via the avr, but then have a sub when I go 'old school analog'.

I should probably just be happy with my JVC Boombox - in the cold world of signals and bits, there are no sonic differences - just self-delusions there are