Cartridge alignment

organ

ok, I used the provided protractor to check my cart alignment and the factory setting seemed off.

Just want to get this straight. I'm suppose to place the stylus on the stylus point and make sure the outside edges of the cartridge is symetrical to the vertical and horizontal lines on the grid, right?

Fongolio

Depends on the protractor, but most you line of the front of the cartridge a parallel line. Parallel to the front of the body of the cartridge that is. You do this at two points (null points) from the center spindle. Move the cartridge body back or forward until you can make both the points line up parallel to the front of the body of the cartridge. UNLESS you have a protractor with only one null point. Sounds confusing but once you get the hang of it it's really not bad.

pjsjr

Here's a great site with a lot of infromation on the needs of vinyl junkies...

http://www.vinylengine.com

I think a recon of this site will also

http://www.soundfountain.com/amb/ttadjust.html#INTRO

HTH, Preston

organ

Thanks for the help guys. I thought I had to line up the whole cart. Didn't know it was the front only. I will try to set it properly.

organ

Ok, I can use some tips here. I'm trying my best but it's quite difficult to tell when it's properly aligned because the front of my cart is rounded.

Fongolio

What kind of cartridge you using organ?

organ

I"m using the stock cart that came with my MMF-5.1. It's the Goldring 2200. Man, this is frustrating lol

Fongolio

I just saw a picture of that cart and totally understand your frustration. The rounded front make normal alignment very difficult. Hang in there though worth it in the end. After you've got the cart aligned set the VTA if needed and then the VTF which for sure will be needed. Also possibly azimuth ( how vertical the stylus sits in the groove ) may need to be set. It's all a pain but once done a few times you get pretty good at it and then the true magic happens.

hearingimpared

If your protractor has horizontal lines you can use them to match up the sides of the cartridge in parallel with the lines.

ozzy21236

Try and picture this : Take a pencil lead such as used to refill mechanical pencils and tape it square across the catridge where it meets the tonearm. Use the lead as a reference since it will be protruding over both sides of the cartridge , you can pick a line on the protractor and see if both sides of the lead fall evenly on it. Hope that helps

MillerLiteScott

And as Russ/\/\ taught me. Line up the cantilever with the lines on the protractor. My cantilever was slightly askew and lining up the cartridge did not result in proper alignment.

Scott

ozzy21236

This is the first time Ive attached an image so bear with me. Another idea is to cut a piece of index card and tape it acroos the flat part at top front of ccart and use that edge as a reference.

organ

Thanks a lot for the help everyone. I think I've got it aligned properly now. Took a long time.

I still have a bit of an issue. I noticed from the day I got the TT, that the right channel was slightly louder. After checking the instruction book, it was mentioned that the azimuth must be adjusted for proper channel balance. I wasn't ready to screw around with it at the time, I was enjoying the sound and didn't want to do anything yet.

Well, last night, after adjusting the cart alignment, I decided to adjust the VTA as well. From my understanding, the arm should be parallel to the record surface. Well, the stock setting was on an angle with the back of the arm being too high. Not sure if the cart requires a certain angle or not, but I will have to play around with this in the future. Right now, I have it on a very slight angle.

Now, something terrible happened while I was adjusting the VTA. After I loosened the screws, the arm swung all the way to the right and the cartridge hit the table and bounced back up. I thought I had secured it to the arm rest, but I guess not. It really scared the s#it out of me. Please please tell me I didn't damage the stylus. It seems to be working fine. There's a lesson learned because of my stupidity. Note to self: never try doing adjustments when feeling frustrated and stressed.

So today I finally decided to try adjusting the azimuth. EVen with the cartridge properly aligned to the record surface, the right channel was still slightly louder. It's very noticable on about 3 of my lp's, but on most it's barely noticable or not noticable at all. Seems like the 2-3db difference.

Please be patient with me. This is my first turntable which is turning out to be a real headache.

Fongolio

If your LP's are still playing the same as before your stylus is ok. As for the azimuth, get it as close as you can ( I use an old 35mm camera lens to give me a real closeup view). On my Kenwood amp despite having all cartridge settings dead on it still sounds louder in my right channel. I attribute it to an amp imbalance. I should re-calibrate my output to balance the amp. In the meantime once I get it centered using my balance contol it sounds fine so I'm not concerned. However, this could be an anti-skating issue. As a rough setting the anti-skate should be set at about the same setting as the tracking force. Some believe that if it has a dial type adjuster that you can really dial it in to perfection so that both channels sound equally dynamic and clear. My Pro-ject table has the fishing line dangly weight that has only three positions so fine adjustment is not possible. I believe yours is similar to mine. Try the three different positions and see if one sounds better or more equal in the two channels than the others. Hang in there, your alsmost there. By the way very good advice by Millerlitescott on using the cantilever to line up the cartridge.

billbillw

Technically, you need to line up the shaft of the cantilever, not the sides of the cartridge. If the cantilever is slightly off center (and many are) then using the sides will not be accurate.

Also, when setting VTA, don't assume having the tonearm parallel is what you want. Technically, you want the flat part on top of the cartridge body to be parallel to the record surface.

Good luck and be careful. Most of us have had close calls like you mentioned. It goes with the territory. The more you use vinyl, the more comfortable you will be making adjustments like that.

hearingimpared

billbillw wrote: »

Technically, you need to line up the shaft of the cantilever, not the sides of the cartridge. If the cantilever is slightly off center (and many are) then using the sides will not be accurate.

When you get into the high end cartridges, great pains are taken by the manufacturer to make sure the cantiliever, stylus and cartridge body are perfectly aligned in reference to each other. So technically you could use the side of the cartridge body to line up parallel to the lines on the protractor.

billbillw

hearingimpared wrote: »

When you get into the high end cartridges, great pains are taken by the manufacturer to make sure the cantiliever, stylus and cartridge body are perfectly aligned in reference to each other. So technically you could use the side of the cartridge body to line up parallel to the lines on the protractor.

Probably true, but I'm not sure a Goldring 2200 qualifies as being 'high end'. Also, he was complaining about there not being any straight sides. That is a problem with many cartridges, which is why you can/should use the cantilever.

organ

Thanks again on the cantilever advice. I"m sure I got it exactly right. I used a flash light directly in front of the cartridge, and the shadow line up perfectly now. It was on an angle before.

Channel balance is about equal now, but, it seems something is off. It seems to have equal balance but it sounds like the left side is more solid while the right is less solid but images better. I think it may be the azimuth. I've got it as good as I can.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but maybe it's a counterweight issue not causing the stylus to have a comfy fit. Thing is, on this table, getting the arm to float and adjusting by eye can probably give you up a large error. I can get the arm floating at 0, a bit before the 0 point and a bit after. So there is room for a big error there. I've read reviews and forum messages talking about the counterweight not being accurate without a gauge.
Earlier today, I ordered a digital stylus gauge, so hopefully things will really improve.

So the issue is not too bad, and like before, sounds quite fine on most recordings but really show on a few.

Setting the VTA is very difficult. If you look at the post by Ozzy, you can see that the entire headshell of the 2200 is curved. So I'm not sure if I got mine right. I pretty much have the arm leveled with the record.

I have to say, my journey with vinyl has been very, very frustrating. I grew up with digital. Played around with cassettes when I was a child, but this analog thing is a MAJOR PITA!!! Digital is so easy. But I'm already seeing (or hearing) what analog has to offer and I shocked. The sound as of now is absolutely beautiful.
I was comparing Scorpions' "Still Loving You" and "Holiday" directly to my CD, so I was able to switch inputs on the fly. There was no comparison. The digital, even though was mastered sounded congested, muddy and has restricted dynamics. The record just blew it away.
So now you see why I'm willing to go through the torture. Maybe after I get it all perfect, the sound will be way better.

Fongolio

Try adjusting the anti-skate weight. It's true function is to counteract the tendency for the groves of the record as the record is spinning to pull the stylus and arm toward the spindle. The anti-skate puts a weight on the arm that pulls to the outside of the record. If this is not set correctly the stylus tip will track (ride) the inside edge of the groove more and despite every other setting being correct the sound can be less dynamic on one channel because the force of the stylus is more to one side or the other. The opposite can be true too. Too much anti-skating can cause the stylus tip to exert more force to the outside than the inside of the groove and the same can happen in reverse. In know. Just another parameter to adjust but get them all bang on and it's sonic nirvana.

Michael_Js

amazing quality from turntables!

DollarDave

Michael_Js wrote: »

amazing quality from turntables!

2 more to 25 - dibs on his sale.

ben62670

DaveMuell wrote: »

2 more to 25 - dibs on his sale.

HaHa I called it first;p
http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1056438&postcount=29

ViperZ

http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1056538&posted=1#post1056538

Hillbilly61

Fongolio wrote: »

Try adjusting the anti-skate weight. It's true function is to counteract the tendency for the groves of the record as the record is spinning to pull the stylus and arm toward the spindle. The anti-skate puts a weight on the arm that pulls to the outside of the record. If this is not set correctly the stylus tip will track (ride) the inside edge of the groove more and despite every other setting being correct the sound can be less dynamic on one channel because the force of the stylus is more to one side or the other. The opposite can be true too. Too much anti-skating can cause the stylus tip to exert more force to the outside than the inside of the groove and the same can happen in reverse. In know. Just another parameter to adjust but get them all bang on and it's sonic nirvana.

That will definitely make one channel louder than the other. Basically, the stylus is getting more contact with one side of the groove verses the other. That will also wear the LP more and have a tendency for more static to appear to the channel the stylus is riding harder against.

Some of the problem could lay in the LP itself. I saw a lot of cheaply stamped ones during their heyday. Since you are hearing the problem, albiet at lesser levels, on other records the skate sounds like it needs adusting. I once had an adjustment "LP". It was a blank record - no grooves. Once you had the skate perfectly balanced, the arm would not drift towards or away from the center.

Aligning the cartridge is a prerequisite. If not aligned, you'd never get the skate balanced. The out of aligned stylus would slowly pull the tone arm one way or the other.