vinyl lovers...a stunning TURNTABLE

nooshinjohn
nooshinjohn Posts: 25,420
edited August 2011 in 2 Channel Audio
I am gonna try and get my hands on this one... any opinions?

http://www.allegrosound.com/Nakamichi_Dragon-CT.html
The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, Mcintosh C2300 Arcam AVR20, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk Audio Legend L800 with height modules, L400 Center Channel Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds. Marantz MM7025 stereo amp. Simaudio Moon 680d DSD

“When once a Republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.”— Thomas Jefferson
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  • joeparaski
    joeparaski Posts: 1,865
    edited March 2009
    Beautiful....how much can you get if for?

    Joe
    Amplifiers: 1-SAE Mark IV, 4-SAE 2400, 1-SAE 2500, 2-SAE 2600, 1-Buttkicker BKA 1000N w/2-tactile transducers. Sources: Sony BDP CX7000es, Sony CX300/CX400/CX450/CX455, SAE 8000 tuner, Akai 4000D R2R, Technics 1100A TT, Epson 8500UB with Carada 100". Speakers:Polk SDA SRS, 3.1TL, FXi5, FXi3, 2-SVS 20-29, Yamaha, SVS center sub. Power:2-Monster HTS3500, Furman M-8D & RR16 Plus. 2-SAE 4000 X-overs, SAE 5000a noise reduction, MSB Link DAC III, MSB Powerbase, Behringer 2496, Monarchy DIP 24/96.
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  • nooshinjohn
    nooshinjohn Posts: 25,420
    edited March 2009
    joeparaski wrote: »
    Beautiful....how much can you get if for?

    Joe
    no clue yet...
    The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, Mcintosh C2300 Arcam AVR20, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk Audio Legend L800 with height modules, L400 Center Channel Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds. Marantz MM7025 stereo amp. Simaudio Moon 680d DSD

    “When once a Republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.”— Thomas Jefferson
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  • hearingimpared
    hearingimpared Posts: 21,137
    edited March 2009
    That is purty but I'll bet it in around $10K.
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  • nooshinjohn
    nooshinjohn Posts: 25,420
    edited March 2009
    hearingimpared wrote: »
    That is purty but I'll bet it in around $10K.
    I hope not...lol
    The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, Mcintosh C2300 Arcam AVR20, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk Audio Legend L800 with height modules, L400 Center Channel Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds. Marantz MM7025 stereo amp. Simaudio Moon 680d DSD

    “When once a Republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.”— Thomas Jefferson
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  • nooshinjohn
    nooshinjohn Posts: 25,420
    edited March 2009
    sold already...
    http://www.canuckaudiomart.com/details/80763-nakamichi_dragon_ct_turntable__extremely_rare/
    The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, Mcintosh C2300 Arcam AVR20, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk Audio Legend L800 with height modules, L400 Center Channel Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds. Marantz MM7025 stereo amp. Simaudio Moon 680d DSD

    “When once a Republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.”— Thomas Jefferson
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  • Systems
    Systems Posts: 14,873
    edited March 2009
    Thats an 80's model,is that used or did Nak recently reintroduce it?



    Oh OK I see its used,the first link was to a dealer so I thought it might be new.
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  • fbm211
    fbm211 Posts: 1,488
    edited March 2009
    That is a really nice TT. I WANT ONE
    SDA-2BTL with custom IC
    Adcom 565 monoblocks--Monarchy Audio M-10 preamp
    Theta Data Basic Transport--Stello DA100 Signature DAC--Camelot Dragon Pro2 MK III
    Harman Kardon T-55c TT
    DH Labs Q-10 Signature Speaker Cables With Furez silver plated copper bananas
    Revelation Audio Labs Prophecy Cryo-Silver Reference AES/EBU
    Revelation Audio Labs Prophecy Cryo-Silver i2s digital cable
    4 Furutech FP-314Ag with FI-11cu Plugs/FI-11AG IECs--- Power Cords
    DH LABS REVELATIONS ICs-amps
    Revelation Audio Labs Paradise cryo-silver ICs-Source to pre
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  • Systems
    Systems Posts: 14,873
    edited March 2009
    I always fancied the Oracle Delphi.http://www.oracle-audio.com/show_picturea85b.html?photo_id=ethan1&photo_text=From Ethan N. Vu<br>U.S.A.<br>Delphi MkV, SME tonearm
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  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,165
    edited March 2009
    hearingimpared wrote: »
    That is purty but I'll bet it in around $10K.

    You're about right Joe.....actually with this economy probably closer to $9K.

    This really is the ultimate Nak TT. the TX1000. I've seen these sell for upwards of $13K......no sure if they are worth it, but they are rare pieces

    1206126509.jpg

    1206126622.jpg

    This sold for $9K w/o an arm or cartridge.
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
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  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,165
    edited March 2009
    Some reading material on both tables

    http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue33/tx1000.htm
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
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  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,165
    edited March 2009
    Actually the Dragon CT (stands for centering turntable or computing turntable) is the baby brother to the TX1000. I was mistaken on the avg. selling price for a Dragon table w/arm is in the neighborhood of $4-6K for a minty piece.

    The TX1000 avg is $8-13K with an arm(s) with minty units w/ all original box, packing, manual, etc tipping the scales towards the $13K mark on a good day.
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
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  • TECHNOKID
    TECHNOKID Posts: 4,298
    edited March 2009
    heiney9 wrote: »
    You're about right Joe.....actually with this economy probably closer to $9K.

    This really is the ultimate Nak TT. the TX1000. I've seen these sell for upwards of $13K......no sure if they are worth it, but they are rare pieces

    1206126509.jpg

    1206126622.jpg

    This sold for $9K w/o an arm or cartridge.
    Lots of dow but man what a beauty!
    DARE TO SOAR:
    “Your attitude, almost always determine your altitude in life” ;)
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  • greg2350
    greg2350 Posts: 544
    edited March 2009
    How about these?

    Oracle201A.jpg
    L1030040.jpg
    CainLuvPrana.jpg

    That last pic can any explain what the hell that is.:confused:
    TV: Philips 42" LCD 1080p
    Front Speakers: Polk Audio RT800i
    Center Speaker: Polk Audio CS1
    Surround Speakers: Polk Audio R50's powered of Denon AVR
    Subwoofer: Polk Audio DSW pro500
    AVR: Denon 3801
    DVD Player: Denon DVM 745 upscale 1080p
    Sat: Directtv HD 10
    Front Speakers Amp: Rotel RB 890
    Center Speaker amp: Rotel 970 BX
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  • Systems
    Systems Posts: 14,873
    edited March 2009
    greg2350 wrote: »
    How about these?

    Oracle201A.jpg
    L1030040.jpg
    CainLuvPrana.jpg

    That last pic can any explain what the hell that is.:confused:
    The first 2 are also Oracle Delphis' as in post#9.The last pic has a pair of full range speakers that look to be driven by some sort of freak show mono bloc tube amp thingies.
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  • nooshinjohn
    nooshinjohn Posts: 25,420
    edited March 2009
    greg2350 wrote: »
    How about these?

    CainLuvPrana.jpg

    That last pic can any explain what the hell that is.:confused:

    Early motorcycle engines used to run Edison gramophones perhaps?:p
    The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, Mcintosh C2300 Arcam AVR20, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk Audio Legend L800 with height modules, L400 Center Channel Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds. Marantz MM7025 stereo amp. Simaudio Moon 680d DSD

    “When once a Republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.”— Thomas Jefferson
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  • Mr Duplicity
    Mr Duplicity Posts: 1
    edited March 2009
    Wow! Those are nice turntables.
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  • hearingimpared
    hearingimpared Posts: 21,137
    edited March 2009
    They are really eye candy for a TT freak like me. Now excuse me while I settle my woodie.
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  • strider
    strider Posts: 2,568
    edited March 2009
    GV#27 wrote: »
    The first 2 are also Oracle Delphis' as in post#9.The last pic has a pair of full range speakers that look to be driven by some sort of freak show mono bloc tube amp thingies.

    I think the speakers are from Cain and Cain. I've seen tube amps that have looked similar, Electronluv maybe?

    Yeah, I think that's him. From what I remember, he's not building anymore; if he retired I've found another reason to hate him, 'cause he looks to be about 25. The home page for his site is still up, but goes nowhere. Here's a link to an article from 6moons.
    Wristwatch--->Crisco
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  • bikerboy
    bikerboy Posts: 1,211
    edited March 2009
    I have not seen the TX-1000 but my brother has a CT. He hasn't used it for a number of years. I've asked if he would loan it out but no go. Nice looking table. Cant really remember what it sounded like. Maybe he will have to sell it after he sees what they sell for now.
    Main system: Lyngdorf TDAI 2170 w/ Pioneer 42" plazma-> Polk LSiM 703 w/Tivo, Marantz tuner, BRPTT: Nothingham Spacedeck-> Pioneer PL L1000 linear arm-> Soundsmith DL 103R-> SUT->Bottlehead ErosDigital: I3 PC w/ Jriver playing flac -> Sonore Ultrarendu -> Twisted Pair Audio ESS 9028 w/ Mercury IVY Vinyl rips: ESI Juli@24/192-> i3 PC server
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  • bobt
    bobt Posts: 280
    edited March 2009
    These tables really have the WOW factor...LOL
    The X-1000 table..if i remember right...a great table .."if" it works right. there was a problem with the tonearm tracking right across the other arm. It would hang up. If i recall correctly it was supposed to reproduce the way the record was cut. At least thats the way they tried to sell it. I have no clue as to the price back then.

    To be honest...if your not a major TT tweeker, and know just everything about this table, it would probably drive you nuts, and parts are probably non existant. Plus of course have very deep pockets....LOL
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  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,165
    edited March 2009
    bobt wrote: »
    These tables really have the WOW factor...LOL
    The X-1000 table..if i remember right...a great table .."if" it works right. there was a problem with the tonearm tracking right across the other arm. It would hang up. If i recall correctly it was supposed to reproduce the way the record was cut. At least thats the way they tried to sell it. I have no clue as to the price back then.

    To be honest...if your not a major TT tweeker, and know just everything about this table, it would probably drive you nuts, and parts are probably non existant. Plus of course have very deep pockets....LOL

    Retail in the 80's for the TX1000 was $8K and $2K for the Dragon
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
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  • bobt
    bobt Posts: 280
    edited March 2009
    yeah that sounds about right....super xpensive..even back then.
    I don't know how many they really sold..of either. I'm not sure they were well liked by any of the mags back then. Kind of looked at as "gimic" tables. When compared to say an AR table that just had an on switch.

    Now of course are collector pieces...far exceed my pockets...LOL
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  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,165
    edited March 2009
    bobt wrote: »
    yeah that sounds about right....super xpensive..even back then.
    I don't know how many they really sold..of either. I'm not sure they were well liked by any of the mags back then. Kind of looked at as "gimic" tables. When compared to say an AR table that just had an on switch.

    Now of course are collector pieces...far exceed my pockets...LOL

    If you read the link I posted it has the entire history and theory behind the tables as well as sales #'s, etc.

    I had a Dragon Cassette deck in the day and it's was a stellar piece that made the best tape recordings I ever heard. It was also a marvel of engineering.

    The Dragon name was reserved for the best of the best.....but occasionally NAK would make a statement piece like the TX1000 or the Gold ZXL cassette deck, etc. They even offered a 3 piece Dragon cdp with a seperate power supply, dac module and transport in the $10K range back then too.

    If there was a need for cassette's today (making my own not pre-recorded) I would still have the Dragon, but.....no use now other than a museum piece

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
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  • TECHNOKID
    TECHNOKID Posts: 4,298
    edited March 2009
    heiney9 wrote: »
    If you read the link I posted it has the entire history and theory behind the tables as well as sales #'s, etc.

    I had a Dragon Cassette deck in the day and it's was a stellar piece that made the best tape recordings I ever heard. It was also a marvel of engineering.

    The Dragon name was reserved for the best of the best.....but occasionally NAK would make a statement piece like the TX1000 or the Gold ZXL cassette deck, etc. They even offered a 3 piece Dragon cdp with a seperate power supply, dac module and transport in the $10K range back then too.

    If there was a need for cassette's today (making my own not pre-recorded) I would still have the Dragon, but.....no use now other than a museum piece

    H9
    Very interesting!
    Now of course are collector pieces...far exceed my pockets...LOL
    Same here, totally out of my range!
    DARE TO SOAR:
    “Your attitude, almost always determine your altitude in life” ;)
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  • bobt
    bobt Posts: 280
    edited March 2009
    Yes..I remember that Dragon deck.....once again...NOT cheap. Didn't it flip the tape around for you..or something like that?
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  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,165
    edited March 2009
    bobt wrote: »
    Yes..I remember that Dragon deck.....once again...NOT cheap. Didn't it flip the tape around for you..or something like that?

    Yes, it was auto-reverse (no flippng-the RX202 and RX505 were the flipping models) but the marvel was the computer controlled auto azimuth alignment of the playback head. Every tape recorded on a cassette deck has a slightly different angle at which the azimuth (the part that essentially magnatizes the tape) meets the tape. The NAK would uses a series of sensors to detect the *exact* azimuth angle the cassette was recorded at and set it's own playback head setting accordingly. So each tape playback was custom aligned for the perfect playback no matter what deck the tape was recorded on.

    It also had a series of test tones that were generated and it had an self biasing function that would record the 3 test tones on each tape you put in, make the calculations for proper biasing and then you could make as perfect a recording as possible. Cassette decks of the day just had a bias push button setting whihc was just a crude average (Normal, High-bias, or Metal) or a pre-set automatic bias. The NAK actually tested the bias of each tape before recording. Every tape manuafactured, even from the same lot has a small amount of bias variation.

    The Dragon compensated for the (2) largest variables in tape playback. Azimuth angle variation during recording/playback and bias variation for recording due to no piece of eletromagnetic tape having exactly the same bias characteristics. It made a world of difference.

    It also had some of the most accurate, quietest motors around. I think the Dragon had at minimum 5 seperate motors controlling everything.

    retail then was $2500-2800

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
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  • bobt
    bobt Posts: 280
    edited March 2009
    Yeah i remmember the alingment thing...but flipping the tape around was ..a show stopper...LOL
    NAK just came out with all this stuff..over just a few years. Way to over priced for me..but was fun to look at ..when there were "stereo" stores....
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  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,165
    edited March 2009
    bobt wrote: »
    Yeah i remmember the alingment thing...but flipping the tape around was ..a show stopper...LOL
    NAK just came out with all this stuff..over just a few years. Way to over priced for me..but was fun to look at ..when there were "stereo" stores....

    The thing is NAK had some great engineers and when they couldn't find a better solution they just either bought a licensing agreement (Nelson Pass and Thresold's patented STASIS topology for their amps) or had another leader in a field (Micro Seiki) produce there stuff for them. I have no doubt the centering TT was Nakamichi's sole brain child, but then having a high end, respected company build it was genious.

    FWIW, I used to sell stereo equipment at a high end store back in the late 80's and would drool over most of the stuff SDA SRS, Nak stuff, Mac stuff, etc. I bought my Dragon used at that time from a regular customer for $500 because his wife couldn't figure out how to use it...............so WAF was the same back then.--lol

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
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  • bobt
    bobt Posts: 280
    edited March 2009
    Yeah...those were the days, altho I may be a few years earlier....LOL
    Probably late 70's early 80's. Bring your records to the store.....sit for hours playing music....LMAO

    I still think the best speakers i heard back then were the Klipsh Lascalla.
    I could not pay the price of $1500 back then...for all i know could have been 1100...but...far beyound my budget at the time.

    The NAK stuff..was far too techno geek for most people..even in the 80's.
    I think I saw 1 model of the X1000.....but the guy didn't even know how to use it...LOL
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  • Systems
    Systems Posts: 14,873
    edited March 2009
    strider wrote: »
    Electronluv maybe?

    Yeah, I think that's him. From what I remember, he's not building anymore; if he retired I've found another reason to hate him, 'cause he looks to be about 25. The home page for his site is still up, but goes nowhere. Here's a link to an article from 6moons.
    They are certainly different:eek: I guess you could expect something radical looking from an artist.Not my cup of tea cosmetically though.
    Testing
    Testing
    Testing
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