Cambridge Audio Azur 840C CD player
Flash21
Posts: 316
that morphed into A Tale of Two Cables
Part I What is all the fuss about?
A couple of days ago I received a Cambridge Audio Azur 840C CD player I purchased off the 'gon, thinking it might be time to upgrade from my 9 year old Denon DCD-1650AR. One of the attractions to the 840C, in addition to the glowing reviews, is it's ability to operate as a DAC as we move into the server age for music sources.
So it was with much anticipation I hooked up the 840C to my Bel Canto eVo2i integrated via my standard Cardas Neutral Reference RCA interconnects and settled back to listen. Surely the Art had advanced in nearly a decade...
The short answer was: not really...certainly not convincingly.
While the Cambridge was pleasingly smooth and competent, it lacked listener engagement, more specifically the last bit of sparkle in the upper register. Some may argue that an extended high end is an artificial artifact of the digital age, but whether natural or not, the smooth, recessed high end of the Cambridge ultimately detracted from my overall musical enjoyment.
In my day I spent many hours in school bands, mostly in front of the trumpet section, and I think I have a pretty good idea what a trumpet sounds like. Trumpets, along with cymbals, snare drums, and steel-string guitars to name a few, all sounded a bit muted and not particularly noticeable with the 840C, whereas my Denon brought out these instruments nicely. The Denon did have a bit more grain than the very smooth Cambridge, but I considered that a worthy exchange for its front row presentation that placed the instruments just across the room from me, whereas with the Cambridge the action was happening...somewhere else.
I had hoped soundstage width and depth would be significantly improved on the newer player, but in reality the Cambridge was not much different from the Denon in this respect. And again, the Denon put the musicians in the room with me, whereas the Cambridge was lacking that live feel.
Possibly as a consequence of the smooth, recessed high end, the Cambridge seemed not particularly dynamic on plucked strings compared to the Denon, such as with an acoustic folk combo.
On the other hand, bass weight on the Cambridge was quite nice, and a little better controlled than the Denon.
I was not sure what to think after reading all the reviews of the 840C. Maybe the reviewers are all classical music listeners? All I knew was, the Denon consistently got my toes a-tappin', whereas my attention wandered with the Cambridge playing. And that is the bottom line, folks.
While I was mentally getting ready to put the Cambridge right back on Audiogon, all was not necessarily lost. Because my Bel Canto has balanced inputs available (assuming I could remember how to enable them on the amps configuration menu), I had bought a set of Zu Varial XLR interconnects on the gon that were in transit. At least a couple of reviewers had mentioned an improvement using balanced interconnects. So
Part II In which Audio Nirvana is Found
The following day, the Zu Varial XLR interconnects arrived on schedule. I dutifully hooked them up and spun up a disc, not expecting miracles. Within just a few seconds I thought Whoa! That sounds good! Was I on drugs last night? Well, no. I switched back to the Neutral Reference RCAs and everything went blah. Boring. How can an interconnect cable be so good on one CD player and so bad on another? To those who doubt that cables can affect the sound, case closed. But most of you already knew that
With the Varials in play the Cambridges sound improved in almost every way, and not just a little. The soundstage expanded enormously. My tastes are pretty eclectic listening to the Wailin Jennys Firecracker Live and Die and Gone, I heard the mandolins far left and right of the speakers, with a sound so pure and clear I replayed the cut several times for the sheer enjoyment of it. A live cut from Frank Zappas Imaginary Diseases enveloped me in the ambience of the concert hall, no lack of live feel here. I listened to practically the entire album with a smile on my face. Moes Wormwood filled the room, imaging well beyond the margins of the speakers. Maybe I have been soundstage-challenged all these years
Dynamically, Life is Hard from John Mellencamps underrated Mr. Happy Go Lucky had all the slam and sparkle I could want. King Kong from The Ed Palermo Big Band Plays the Music of Frank Zappa knocked me over with a big-band punch to the chest.
Ultimately, I cant think of a single aspect of the sound of the 840C/Varial combination that isnt superlative.
Switching back to my original setup with the Denon, while the overall tonal character was similar, the soundstage was much smaller, and the sound was somewhat grainier, more congested feeling. Dont get me wrong, the DCD1650-AR is still a fine disc player, and I could easily continue living with it if I had to. I hadnt gone looking for a new disc player due to any specific problem or complaint with the Denon, I had simply suspected it was the weakest (and, not coincidentally, oldest) link in my existing system.
And so it appears to be. But in some ways the bigger story is: with one switch in interconnects the 840C has gone from Ho-hum, what-is-all-the-fuss-about to Holy crap! This sounds freeking awesome! (Im yawning as I update this review because I stayed up past midnight listening ). I wonder how many of the 840Cs on the gon are there because of poor cable/system synergy?
A question does remain: was the change in sound a function of the model of interconnect cable, or the balanced configuration, or both? Some general research suggests the cable will have more impact than balanced vs. unbalanced, and while this makes sense I have no way to say really normally I try to limit auditioning to changes in one variable at a time, so the cause and effect can be clearly attributed to that one variable. That wasnt practical in this case anybody want to loan me some Zu Varial RCA interconnects for a day or two? :rolleyes:
In any case, time to update my sig... :cool:
Part I What is all the fuss about?
A couple of days ago I received a Cambridge Audio Azur 840C CD player I purchased off the 'gon, thinking it might be time to upgrade from my 9 year old Denon DCD-1650AR. One of the attractions to the 840C, in addition to the glowing reviews, is it's ability to operate as a DAC as we move into the server age for music sources.
So it was with much anticipation I hooked up the 840C to my Bel Canto eVo2i integrated via my standard Cardas Neutral Reference RCA interconnects and settled back to listen. Surely the Art had advanced in nearly a decade...
The short answer was: not really...certainly not convincingly.
While the Cambridge was pleasingly smooth and competent, it lacked listener engagement, more specifically the last bit of sparkle in the upper register. Some may argue that an extended high end is an artificial artifact of the digital age, but whether natural or not, the smooth, recessed high end of the Cambridge ultimately detracted from my overall musical enjoyment.
In my day I spent many hours in school bands, mostly in front of the trumpet section, and I think I have a pretty good idea what a trumpet sounds like. Trumpets, along with cymbals, snare drums, and steel-string guitars to name a few, all sounded a bit muted and not particularly noticeable with the 840C, whereas my Denon brought out these instruments nicely. The Denon did have a bit more grain than the very smooth Cambridge, but I considered that a worthy exchange for its front row presentation that placed the instruments just across the room from me, whereas with the Cambridge the action was happening...somewhere else.
I had hoped soundstage width and depth would be significantly improved on the newer player, but in reality the Cambridge was not much different from the Denon in this respect. And again, the Denon put the musicians in the room with me, whereas the Cambridge was lacking that live feel.
Possibly as a consequence of the smooth, recessed high end, the Cambridge seemed not particularly dynamic on plucked strings compared to the Denon, such as with an acoustic folk combo.
On the other hand, bass weight on the Cambridge was quite nice, and a little better controlled than the Denon.
I was not sure what to think after reading all the reviews of the 840C. Maybe the reviewers are all classical music listeners? All I knew was, the Denon consistently got my toes a-tappin', whereas my attention wandered with the Cambridge playing. And that is the bottom line, folks.
While I was mentally getting ready to put the Cambridge right back on Audiogon, all was not necessarily lost. Because my Bel Canto has balanced inputs available (assuming I could remember how to enable them on the amps configuration menu), I had bought a set of Zu Varial XLR interconnects on the gon that were in transit. At least a couple of reviewers had mentioned an improvement using balanced interconnects. So
Part II In which Audio Nirvana is Found
The following day, the Zu Varial XLR interconnects arrived on schedule. I dutifully hooked them up and spun up a disc, not expecting miracles. Within just a few seconds I thought Whoa! That sounds good! Was I on drugs last night? Well, no. I switched back to the Neutral Reference RCAs and everything went blah. Boring. How can an interconnect cable be so good on one CD player and so bad on another? To those who doubt that cables can affect the sound, case closed. But most of you already knew that
With the Varials in play the Cambridges sound improved in almost every way, and not just a little. The soundstage expanded enormously. My tastes are pretty eclectic listening to the Wailin Jennys Firecracker Live and Die and Gone, I heard the mandolins far left and right of the speakers, with a sound so pure and clear I replayed the cut several times for the sheer enjoyment of it. A live cut from Frank Zappas Imaginary Diseases enveloped me in the ambience of the concert hall, no lack of live feel here. I listened to practically the entire album with a smile on my face. Moes Wormwood filled the room, imaging well beyond the margins of the speakers. Maybe I have been soundstage-challenged all these years
Dynamically, Life is Hard from John Mellencamps underrated Mr. Happy Go Lucky had all the slam and sparkle I could want. King Kong from The Ed Palermo Big Band Plays the Music of Frank Zappa knocked me over with a big-band punch to the chest.
Ultimately, I cant think of a single aspect of the sound of the 840C/Varial combination that isnt superlative.
Switching back to my original setup with the Denon, while the overall tonal character was similar, the soundstage was much smaller, and the sound was somewhat grainier, more congested feeling. Dont get me wrong, the DCD1650-AR is still a fine disc player, and I could easily continue living with it if I had to. I hadnt gone looking for a new disc player due to any specific problem or complaint with the Denon, I had simply suspected it was the weakest (and, not coincidentally, oldest) link in my existing system.
And so it appears to be. But in some ways the bigger story is: with one switch in interconnects the 840C has gone from Ho-hum, what-is-all-the-fuss-about to Holy crap! This sounds freeking awesome! (Im yawning as I update this review because I stayed up past midnight listening ). I wonder how many of the 840Cs on the gon are there because of poor cable/system synergy?
A question does remain: was the change in sound a function of the model of interconnect cable, or the balanced configuration, or both? Some general research suggests the cable will have more impact than balanced vs. unbalanced, and while this makes sense I have no way to say really normally I try to limit auditioning to changes in one variable at a time, so the cause and effect can be clearly attributed to that one variable. That wasnt practical in this case anybody want to loan me some Zu Varial RCA interconnects for a day or two? :rolleyes:
In any case, time to update my sig... :cool:
Steve Carlson
Von Schweikert VR-33 speakers
Bel Canto eVo2i integrated amp
Bel Canto PL-2 universal disc player
Analysis Plus Oval Nine speaker cables and Copper Oval-In Micro interconnects
VH Audio Flavor 4 power cables
Polk Monitor 10B speakers, retired but not forgotten
Von Schweikert VR-33 speakers
Bel Canto eVo2i integrated amp
Bel Canto PL-2 universal disc player
Analysis Plus Oval Nine speaker cables and Copper Oval-In Micro interconnects
VH Audio Flavor 4 power cables
Polk Monitor 10B speakers, retired but not forgotten
Post edited by Flash21 on
Comments
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You're not the only person I've heard say the 840C's balanced output sounds better. But, this is the first time I've heard someone call it's top end recessed. I'm leaning towards the interconnects making more of a difference than the output."He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche
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Nice review. One other thing to consider is that the change in sound could come not from the cables, but from the move from unbalanced to balanced (Or a combination of both).
If the gear actually uses a balanced design, the change in sound is considerable between using one or the other._________________________________________________
***\\\\\........................... My Audio Journey ............................./////***
2008 & 2010 Football Pool WINNER
SOPAThank God for different opinions. Imagine the world if we all wanted the same woman -
You're not the only person I've heard say the 840C's balanced output sounds better. But, this is the first time I've heard someone call it's top end recessed. I'm leaning towards the interconnects making more of a difference than the output.
Yes I know...certainly none of the professional reviews mentioned it, probably because they were using different cables. Because, if I didn't make it clear, the high end sounds beautiful with the Zu Varials; no complaints whatsoever.
It was just beyond my expectation going in that the Neutral Reference would have a fairly forward, bright presentation on the Denon and a recessed, blah presentation on the Cambridge. I just didn't think differences in cable synergy would be that dramatic...Steve Carlson
Von Schweikert VR-33 speakers
Bel Canto eVo2i integrated amp
Bel Canto PL-2 universal disc player
Analysis Plus Oval Nine speaker cables and Copper Oval-In Micro interconnects
VH Audio Flavor 4 power cables
Polk Monitor 10B speakers, retired but not forgotten -
Using Cardas XLR to single ended adapters, I've tried both and didn't notice a large difference between the two besides the extra gain.Nice review. One other thing to consider is that the change in sound could come not from the cables, but from the move from unbalanced to balanced (Or a combination of both).
If the gear actually uses a balanced design, the change in sound is considerable bewteen using one or the other."He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche -
I think cables are going to drive me nuts someday...my audiophile life would be so much easier without the added variables of interconnects, speaker cables, power cables, etc.
Steve Carlson
Von Schweikert VR-33 speakers
Bel Canto eVo2i integrated amp
Bel Canto PL-2 universal disc player
Analysis Plus Oval Nine speaker cables and Copper Oval-In Micro interconnects
VH Audio Flavor 4 power cables
Polk Monitor 10B speakers, retired but not forgotten -
Using Cardas XLR to single ended adapters, I've tried both and didn't notice a large difference between the two besides the extra gain.
Using balanced to single ended might be diluting the benefit. With true balanced designs, both the source and receiving components should be balanced to obtain the whole benefit. But again, this will depend on the particular components in use._________________________________________________
***\\\\\........................... My Audio Journey ............................./////***
2008 & 2010 Football Pool WINNER
SOPAThank God for different opinions. Imagine the world if we all wanted the same woman -
You're right, I thought of this after I posted...Using balanced to single ended might be diluting the benefit. With true balanced designs, both the source and receiving components should be balanced to obtain the whole benefit. But again, this will depend on the particular components in use.
The 840C is fully balanced: http://www.cambridgeaudio.com/assets/documents/840Cwhitepaperwebedit.pdf"He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche -
Face,
do you mind telling us your thoughts on DACMagic?
I'm thinking to use with 540C V2 and PC. Thanks. -
I have the same player & I can attest to how well it "puts you there" within the performance. I'm smitten everytime I fire it up. I'm using Signal Cable Silver IC's from the player & the same IC's from my two channel Nikko amp. The sound is remarkable. I never heard it thru XLR yet though.
And if that wasn't enough, the digital inputs that take advantage of it's outstanding DAC's are icing on the cake!!"2 Channel & 11.2 HT "Two Channel:Magnepan LRSSchiit Audio Freya S - SS preConsonance Ref 50 - Tube preParasound HALO A21+ 2 channel ampBluesound NODE 2i streameriFi NEO iDSD DAC Oppo BDP-93KEF KC62 sub Home Theater:Full blown 11.2 set up. -
It's pretty enthralling isn't it? As noted, I have been staying up too late listening [yawn]...:)Steve Carlson
Von Schweikert VR-33 speakers
Bel Canto eVo2i integrated amp
Bel Canto PL-2 universal disc player
Analysis Plus Oval Nine speaker cables and Copper Oval-In Micro interconnects
VH Audio Flavor 4 power cables
Polk Monitor 10B speakers, retired but not forgotten -
When I upgraded my CDP it revealed the weakness in my audio chain. It became apparent to me that the IC cables were calling too much attention to themselves and once I switched those out, then the CDP started sounding really good. So, I had a similar experience to yours.
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Well it is rather obvious now that one size does not fit all...while I knew different cables sound differently, I didn't quite expect the dramatic change in synergy between two players... I more expected an influence on the players base sound rather than a guiding force, if those terms make sense.Steve Carlson
Von Schweikert VR-33 speakers
Bel Canto eVo2i integrated amp
Bel Canto PL-2 universal disc player
Analysis Plus Oval Nine speaker cables and Copper Oval-In Micro interconnects
VH Audio Flavor 4 power cables
Polk Monitor 10B speakers, retired but not forgotten -
Nice review. One other thing to consider is that the change in sound could come not from the cables, but from the move from unbalanced to balanced (Or a combination of both).
If the gear actually uses a balanced design, the change in sound is considerable between using one or the other.
Agreed. The biggest difference you're hearing is probably not the cables.HT/2-channel Rig: Sony 50 LCD TV; Toshiba HD-A2 DVD player; Emotiva LMC-1 pre/pro; Rogue Audio M-120 monoblocks (modded); Placette RVC; Emotiva LPA-1 amp; Bada HD-22 tube CDP (modded); VMPS Tower II SE (fronts); DIY Clearwave Dynamic 4CC (center); Wharfedale Opus Tri-Surrounds (rear); and VMPS 215 sub
"God grooves with tubes." -
Flash:
You hit the nail on the head, SYNERGY is a huge factor. It's one reason why I have 3 amps on had for reviews (SS/Tube/Chip), along with two types of cabling. I have some monitors in for review right now where they sounded very nice with one type of amplification, a little better with a second, and STUNNING with the third.Review Site_ (((AudioPursuit)))
Founder/Publisher Affordable$$Audio 2006-13.
Former Staff Member TONEAudio
2 Ch. System
Amplifiers: Parasound Halo P6 pre, Vista Audio i34, Peachtree amp500, Adcom GFP-565 GFA-535ii, 545ii, 555ii
Digital: SimAudio HAD230 DAC, iMac 20in/Amarra,
Speakers: Paradigm Performa F75, Magnepan .7, Totem Model 1's, ACI Emerald XL, Celestion Si Stands. Totem Dreamcatcher sub
Analog: Technics SL-J2 w/Pickering 3000D, SimAudio LP5.3 phono pre
Cable/Wires: Cardas, AudioArt, Shunyata Venom 3 -
Maybe someday we will be able to quantify or predict "synergy" by some rational measurement...but then what would we have to argue about?
Steve Carlson
Von Schweikert VR-33 speakers
Bel Canto eVo2i integrated amp
Bel Canto PL-2 universal disc player
Analysis Plus Oval Nine speaker cables and Copper Oval-In Micro interconnects
VH Audio Flavor 4 power cables
Polk Monitor 10B speakers, retired but not forgotten -
Balanced Trumps Unbalanced.
RT1 -
In reference to the XLR vs. RCA discussion, this is from a post on another forum regarding Cambridge 840C interconnects:For the Neutral Reference I only have RCA. For the Golden Reference I have both XLR and RCA. Did an A/B test by having both hooked up at the same time and with the convenience of my remote (and adjusting the volume for gain compensation) the balanced connection won hands down. Blacker background, more detail, more space, more extended frequency extremes and an increase in both micro and macro dynamics. You could hear the difference from a different room. It simply sounded more like live music playing. This could also be the performance difference between balanced and single ended on my amp but nevertheless XLR sounds considerably better on my system.Steve Carlson
Von Schweikert VR-33 speakers
Bel Canto eVo2i integrated amp
Bel Canto PL-2 universal disc player
Analysis Plus Oval Nine speaker cables and Copper Oval-In Micro interconnects
VH Audio Flavor 4 power cables
Polk Monitor 10B speakers, retired but not forgotten -
I'm either missing out on those gains from using balanced to RCA adapters or he's smoking something good. Too bad my integrated isn't balanced."He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche
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Flash21 thanks for your wonderful detailed review of your new CA Azur 840C cdp and how you reached the level you are at now and pleased with it's sound. I enjoyed reading your review.
congrats on finding your synergy. PolkFest 2012, who's going>?
Vancouver, Canada Sept 30th, 2012 - Madonna concert :cheesygrin: -
You're welcome. It does sound great; I have done some listening every night. I am very glad I tried more than one interconnect before passing judgement.
Of course, now I start to wonder if it can sound even better with other interconnects :rolleyes: And so it goes... Steve Carlson
Von Schweikert VR-33 speakers
Bel Canto eVo2i integrated amp
Bel Canto PL-2 universal disc player
Analysis Plus Oval Nine speaker cables and Copper Oval-In Micro interconnects
VH Audio Flavor 4 power cables
Polk Monitor 10B speakers, retired but not forgotten -
You're welcome. It does sound great; I have done some listening every night. I am very glad I tried more than one interconnect before passing judgement.
Of course, now I start to wonder if it can sound even better with other interconnects :rolleyes: And so it goes...
Quit while your ahead. Sit back, relax & enjoy your great sound. If you continue to question the IC's you'll become a basket case & never really get to the point of actually enjoying the music."2 Channel & 11.2 HT "Two Channel:Magnepan LRSSchiit Audio Freya S - SS preConsonance Ref 50 - Tube preParasound HALO A21+ 2 channel ampBluesound NODE 2i streameriFi NEO iDSD DAC Oppo BDP-93KEF KC62 sub Home Theater:Full blown 11.2 set up. -
Heh, that's good advice really...and I fully agree with you in principle. But in this case I have only tried two interconnects, so I don't really feel like I have done my "due diligence".Steve Carlson
Von Schweikert VR-33 speakers
Bel Canto eVo2i integrated amp
Bel Canto PL-2 universal disc player
Analysis Plus Oval Nine speaker cables and Copper Oval-In Micro interconnects
VH Audio Flavor 4 power cables
Polk Monitor 10B speakers, retired but not forgotten -
Heh, that's good advice really...and I fully agree with you in principle. But in this case I have only tried two interconnects, so I don't really feel like I have done my "due diligence".
You're about to enter the "Placebo" zone. There's literally thousands of IC's out there...when do you draw the line in the sand & say to yourself...self, it's about time I listen to the music & not cables!!!"2 Channel & 11.2 HT "Two Channel:Magnepan LRSSchiit Audio Freya S - SS preConsonance Ref 50 - Tube preParasound HALO A21+ 2 channel ampBluesound NODE 2i streameriFi NEO iDSD DAC Oppo BDP-93KEF KC62 sub Home Theater:Full blown 11.2 set up. -
Trust me, I'm not about to start trying cables at random, therein lies madness.
But if somebody credible that has the same CDP (thus giving a leg-up on achieving "synergy") recommends a given interconnect, I may very well give it a try...Steve Carlson
Von Schweikert VR-33 speakers
Bel Canto eVo2i integrated amp
Bel Canto PL-2 universal disc player
Analysis Plus Oval Nine speaker cables and Copper Oval-In Micro interconnects
VH Audio Flavor 4 power cables
Polk Monitor 10B speakers, retired but not forgotten -
I had this CD player and was very happy with it but with my Apple TV and Pioneer 51 I didnt have a need for it anyone so I sold it
