Amp for LSI9s and LSIC

candjhuntley

I'm putting together a home theater for a friend, and i picked up LSI-9s and an LSI-C for his front soundstage. The initial thought was that the Onkyo TX-SR806 w/ 130 wpc would be more than enough to give nice sound. But the more i read, the more i see that the LSI series needs good wattage to open up, and Onkyo (and other receiver companies) tend to exaggerate a little on what their receivers can practically do.

So here's the deal. I carefully planned the budget for everything to be just slightly under budget, and I actually did it - which was a LOT better than he did on his part of the planning - furniture - went way over. Since he's over-budget, i don't have a lot of wiggle room with my budget. And i never included an amp into the budget. So if i want to add an amp, i have about $400-$500 to buy it.

First - Does anyone think that the Onkyo TX-SR806 could adequately drive the LSIs? That would make things a lot easier - but i'm doubtful.

Secondly - I'm actively looking for a 5 channel amp (in case he wants to add LSI-7s in the back at a future date - right now it's just cheaper polk surrounds off of Newegg from a different class). What i'm going to do is post various amps here and basically see what people think about their ability to drive the LSI series. I've been perusing classifieds all over the place and will start to post here items i think i'm interested in to see if i should jump on them. So there will most likely be multiple amps as time goes for you to either say yeah or nay to.

Thanks in advance for your help!
Chris

PS - He's still not sold on the need for an amp (the speakers won't be in for probably another week for him to hear them) - if you feel i need an amp, please let me know the best way to explain to him in easily understood language

candjhuntley

First amp for consideration:

B&K AV5000 Series ll - $450 at audiogon - 185 wpc into 4 ohm - what do you think?

candjhuntley

Second Amp for Consideration:

Emotiva LPA-1 7 - $420 @ Audiogon - 225w into 5 channels at 4 ohms, 260w into 3 channels

Ender

Are you only looking at Audiogon? Maybe check out eBay or craigslist for some Adcom amps like the GFA-5503. You could also look into getting three monoblock amps like the Outlaw Audio 2200 (ahem, in the Fleamarket forums). Really solid amps that run cool. I have two myself. Yes, costs a little more... yes, I think it's worth it, especially for hard-to-power speakers like the LSi.

BlueFox

candjhuntley wrote: »

First - Does anyone think that the Onkyo TX-SR806 could adequately drive the LSIs? That would make things a lot easier - but i'm doubtful.

How big is the room? I ran 4 LSi15s, and an LSiC with a Sony 5000ES (125W/ch) in a room 11x12 with no problem. Of course, upgrading to a Sunfire amp improved the sound, but I never regreted the time I spent with the Sony.

candjhuntley

Ender wrote: »

Are you only looking at Audiogon?

Nope - i've been looking at various different forums, including the Polk forums, for various deals - and i actually looked and considered those various monoblocks - but they are simply out of the price range - it's just that the only ones that have enticed me thus far have been those two from audiogon

BlueFox wrote: »

How big is the room? I ran 4 LSi15s, and an LSiC with a Sony 5000ES (125W/ch) in a room 11x12 with no problem. Of course, upgrading to a Sunfire amp improved the sound, but I never regreted the time I spent with the Sony.

The room is approx 16 x 15 with the listening area about 10 feet from the front speakers. i'm definitely thinking about just waiting to purchase the amp until the speakers arrive and seeing if the Onkyo could do it - but i'm also afraid that when he hears them and they're underpowered and don't sound as good as they could, that it would justify his thoughts that perhaps he's spending too much on the audio side of the equation - i put a lot of stock into first impressions.

Thanks for the replies guys! Keep them coming - and if you see a deal somewhere that you'd like to point out, please let me konw about it!

comfortablycurt

It's not so much that they'd be underpowered, but rather that the 806 isn't capable of efficiently handling 4 ohm loads.

The LSi's are 4 ohm speakers, and powering a full set of 4 ohm speakers is a task that most AVR's aren't really up to. Sure, the 806 has "certified 4 ohm performance", but that doesn't mean that it's able to efficiently drive a full set up of 4 ohm speakers. Especially not at high volumes for any long length of time.

An external amp would definitely be the way to go. You could probably get away without one for a while...but you'd definitely want to pick one up eventually.

Check out the Adcom multi-channel amps on A'gon. There are several of them on there right now that will fit your budget. Adcom comes very highly recommended, and they'll do an excellent job powering the LSi's.

http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?ampsmult&1241973433&/Adcom-GFA-7000-5x125wpc/8-powe



This ones already sold...but just to give you an idea of another possible solution. They're always popping up on there...

http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?ampsmult&1241330972&/Adcom-gfa-5503-

Ender

Yeah, actually that was going to be my next suggestion. Lol. The GFA-5503 that I should have bought before it sold out. Lol.

You might also want to consider getting a GFA-555 and then add an Outlaw Audio 2200. That should keep you under $600 for 200wpc @ 8ohms.

raidersrule76

I agree with everyone so far, I think that you should really look into getting a seperate amp to run the speakers but remember that you will need some kind of preamp. Im assuming that the onkyo has pre outs that should do fine as a preamp. I have a full set of LSI and run seperate amps for everything. If I understand correctly if you use an avr to drive 4 ohm speakers and it cant handle it there is a chance of overheating the avr and causing it to shut down not sure tho just what I heard. Good luck on your search and keep all of us posted on how your friend likes his system.

candjhuntley

Wow guys - thanks for all the information and support...

My definitive budget is $400 right now, i at least got the guy to give me that much. But that does kind of rule out separate amps as much as i like the idea, it's just too expensive for three of them.

The 806 has a 4 ohm setting, but i've read somewhere that it hardly pushes anything out power wise and is just there to make sure you don't damage the receiver. It also has a protection mode where it will shut off if it's pushed too hard. I completely agree that it just won't do the job by itself. But it thankfully does have pre-outs (i bought it before i knew what speakers he was getting - originally we were going to go with some other speakers, but that ended... long story that i'm not sure i can tell)

I am now keeping my eyes open for the Adcom GFA 5503

I also actually have posted an offer at Audiogon for a Acurus 200x3 that someone has posted. From what i've read, it would do as well as the Adcom for driving those three channels - is that an accurate assumption? (It's also 200wpc into 8 ohm, i think 250 or 300 wpc into 4 ohm)

Keep the thoughts and advice coming folks! Thanks so much!

Ender

The Acurus should be fine, but I would haggle down because the 200x3 is an older model as opposed to the A200.

candjhuntley

Really? i offered 400 including shipping and he refused - countered with 400 plus shipping ($50) - like i said, my budget is $400 - is that just too much? Should i just let it go and wait for the next one?

I could probably split shipping with him and get away with it with my buddy ($425) - but too much?

cfrizz

Yes the Acurus will do the job for the LSI's. Try to get 200wpc @8ohms. The more power you feed them the better they will sound & less risk of hurting them or the receiver.

Welcome to Club Polk.

cheddar

candjhuntley wrote: »

...i'm definitely thinking about just waiting to purchase the amp until the speakers arrive and seeing if the Onkyo could do it - but i'm also afraid that when he hears them and they're underpowered and don't sound as good as they could, that it would justify his thoughts that perhaps he's spending too much on the audio side of the equation - i put a lot of stock into first impressions.

I wouldn't give up on the idea of getting seperate amplification for these speakers if you want to get the most out of them. I thought I was doing ok with a denon 3803 a few years back with my lsi15s. And they did sound ok being driven by the receiver. But hooking the lsis up to my current amps definitely took them to a different level, tightening everything up and producing real slam in the bass that wasn't there before. If you want to make a good first impression, though, you should make sure you have a good subwoofer in the mix to dig deep when the sound track goes low. Then put in the first battle scene from master and commander and if everything is calibrated properly, your friend should think the plaster is flying off the walls...

Ender

Yeah, try 400 with split shipping. That's a better price, somewhat. Either way, the Acurus is much better than the Onkyo at amping. The GFA-5503 went for $425 plus shipping and Adcom is more reputable than Acurus, imo. If you can get for $425 shipped, thats a fair price, I think.

candjhuntley

cheddar wrote: »

I wouldn't give up on the idea of getting seperate amplification for these speakers if you want to get the most out of them... If you want to make a good first impression, though, you should make sure you have a good subwoofer in the mix to dig deep when the sound track goes low. Then put in the first battle scene from master and commander and if everything is calibrated properly, your friend should think the plaster is flying off the walls...

Well - what i meant by giving up on separate amplification was buying an individual monoblock for each speaker. Instead, i'm just going to try to get a good deal on a single 3 or 5 channel amp - but i definitely am going to get something to power them instead of the receiver.

I've got a ED AE-200 ordered that will ship out on the 20th for the sub. It was rated highly by the Craigsub list - and the price was right. For the size of the room, i'm pretty confident the 12" sub will deliver very well.

I've sent him another offer for $400 splitting shipping - just have to wait to see what happens - but thanks for the continued comments!

Sami

candjhuntley wrote: »

Really? i offered 400 including shipping and he refused - countered with 400 plus shipping ($50) - like i said, my budget is $400 - is that just too much? Should i just let it go and wait for the next one?

I could probably split shipping with him and get away with it with my buddy ($425) - but too much?

PM me, I have one of those that I hardly ever use. I'm on the road right now but if you PM me I will reply tomorrow night or tonight if I have the time.

candjhuntley

Thanks Sami - PM sent - though it seems even if i wanted to, i couldn't retract my offer at audiogon - so i'll see if he denies the offer then perhaps you and i can start talking - it'd be cool if i could get this taken care of from the polk forum instead

Sherardp

See flea market for my Outlaw Monos, perfect combo for the LSis and center.

http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?t=79886

candjhuntley

Sherardp wrote: »

See flea market for my Outlaw Monos, perfect combo for the LSis and center.

http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?t=79886

Yeah - i'd love to have separate amps for each speaker, but to do it would be about $250 over my budget - which i just can't do

Thanks though!

Ender

Sherardp wrote: »

See flea market for my Outlaw Monos, perfect combo for the LSis and center.

http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?t=79886

Lol. This would be great for the LSis but I already told him about it and apparently it is out of his budget.

megasat16

Ender wrote: »

The GFA-5503 went for $425 plus shipping and Adcom is more reputable than Acurus, imo.

Acurus was a good reputable brand from the past which became Aragon and then became Klipsch. So, it's reputation fade away due to Acurus brand name was swallowed up by bigger names. It's not necessary meaning Acurus is any less than Adcom because I've used many Adcom amps as well as Acurus amps in the past. They are more like on par and the listener is the ultimate factor which sounds better.

Sami

I have one Aragon amp as well, and have had several Adcom's as well as many other amps. The Aragon is still the best sounding amplifier I have owned. I thought Acurus was the little brother lineup for Aragon by Mondial (purchased by Klipsch). I haven't had any chance to do any serious comparison with the main amps I have now (Acurus 200x3, Aragon 2004 and Sherbourn 5/1500).

Right now the Acurus is hooked up to a pair of DQ-10's in my bedroom and the system sounds very good.

candjhuntley

Sami - i could have sworn i sent you a PM last night, but it's not saved in my PM box, so i must not have actually sent it - but i sent one to you just now.

The guy rejected the offer on the Acurus 200x3 - so hopefully i'll have some talks with Sami and see what happens.

BTW - Ender - awesome name - one of the greatest books i've ever read - still read it on average once a year (assuming that's where the name comes from)

Mustang Matt

I'm in the exact same boat. I bought an lsic and pair of lsifx with plans to get a pair of lsi9 to replace my r50 mains.

Now I need a receiver and an amp to power it all.

If I were to buy sherardps outlaw m2200 amps, would my system be completely unbalanced running the r50s off the receiver and the 3 lsi speakers off the amps?

Ender

Hmm... I guess not completely since the R50 are more efficient? I think it would be hard to say until we actually try it. LSiFX are rears or mains? I thought you were getting LSi9 for mains?

Btw, you should just buy 5 of these Outlaw Audio 2200. They are pretty damn sweet and relatively cheap and run cool for monoblocs at 200W @ 8. Also small and relatively light weight. I love 'em.

Candj:
Yes, it's from the book series. Lol. Love them. The only other story that has gotten me more involved is the Watchmen graphics novel series. Serious awesome all around. And there is no charge for awesome.

Usually, I never see Ender as an open name. I always check, literally every place I need a nick. Lol. I usually end up using Alai or Bean, but since Ender was open... hell, why not?!

Also, good luck with the deal with Sami. Hopefully, polkies will help each other out here.

apphd

Mustang Matt wrote: »

I'm in the exact same boat. I bought an lsic and pair of lsifx with plans to get a pair of lsi9 to replace my r50 mains.

Now I need a receiver and an amp to power it all.

If I were to buy sherardps outlaw m2200 amps, would my system be completely unbalanced running the r50s off the receiver and the 3 lsi speakers off the amps?

It depends on your receiver, but more than likely you would be in good shape after you trim your speaker volumes.

candjhuntley

Hey guys - how's this amp?

Marantz Mono Amplifier MA500

It's only 180 wpc into 4 ohm - but it's an individual amp. There's a guy on CL selling 5 of them for $125 each - which i could get 3 for the LSIs for under budget. But is it worth it for only 180 wpc?

Thanks!

Jetmaker737

Here's a little article that will reinforce your conviction to get an amp on those LSi's (see page 6).

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/receivers/469-a-secrets-receiver-review.html?start=5

I have a TX-SR805 which has a much better amp than the 806. It did pretty well at lower volumes on my LSi15's but went to hell in the -10 dB range. I now have an Emotiva RPA-2 hooked up and the sound is very nice indeed all the way up to 0 dB.

cfrizz

You should be looking at how much it is putting out at 8ohms not 4. The more you get at 8 it the more you will get when it has to push 4.

Again try to get at least 200wpc @ 8ohms, yes it will cost more money, but the improvement in sound will be well worth it.

If you are not willing to spend the money to make sure the speakers operate to their full potential & without worry about blowing something out from too little power, then get different speakers.

candjhuntley wrote: »

Hey guys - how's this amp?

Marantz Mono Amplifier MA500

It's only 180 wpc into 4 ohm - but it's an individual amp. There's a guy on CL selling 5 of them for $125 each - which i could get 3 for the LSIs for under budget. But is it worth it for only 180 wpc?

Thanks!

Ender

Yeah... 180 @ 4 is pretty damn weak.