New system for a jail cell.

TheNovaKing

And by jail cell, I mean college dorm. I'm sort of an audiophile, I love old music, I prefer the sound of records to .mp3's. I love Classic Rock, Rock, Jazz, Big band, Classica, Grunge, and Metal. ( I especially love the sound of Cello's and Violins)


Here's my predicament.

I want a system that won't be disturbing to my dorm neighbors, and will fill up the room, I really want it to fill up the room. I don't want that awful phenomena that happens when you turn your head and you can hear a difference in the sound (If this is impossible to avoid, then by all means negate it from my request) It needs to be able to run from my computer, whatever hardware/software I need to install isn't an issue as I'm building my own.


And I suppose I should offer some sort of reciprocation, I'm well versed in computer hardware and software, as well as individual applications, so you scratch my back, I'll scratch yours. 'Eh?

Also, a recommendation for a set of good quality durable headphones is welcome as well.

Face

So you want a large sweet spot and wide sound stage... How about a pair of Polk SDA CRS+'s?

TheNovaKing

I don't really know what you mean by "large sweet spot and wide sound stage" I can only guess that the sweet spot is where it sounds best, but I have no clue what a sound stage is.

dkg999

How about a Cambridge Audio DACMagic ($399), a NAD C325BEE integrated amp (about $299 to $399, look for a refurbed unit), and a pair of EPOS ELS-3 speakers ($299 slightly used). Add some Signal Cable IC's and speaker wire, sit back and enjoy!

TheNovaKing

And I can hook these up to my computer?

Face

Yes.

TheNovaKing

So, am I already pretty much screwed on quality because it's coming from a computer? I mean, an excellent speaker can't make up for the fact that what's running from it sucks... Is this true? Or is this just a myth?

Face

It depends on what format the music is in. As long as it's lossless, you'll be fine. The better the associated equipment, the worse low bit rate MP3's sound.

TECHNOKID

TheNovaKing wrote: »

I don't really know what you mean by "large sweet spot and wide sound stage" I can only guess that the sweet spot is where it sounds best, but I have no clue what a sound stage is.

Large simply means you are covering most of the frequency spectrum (typically 20 hz to 20 khz) therefore the Low Mid and High. Sweet spot would be basically a reference to the optimum ("Musicality is so much improved, rhythm and timing flows. It is a little like a car cruising comfortably on a light throttle."). Here some definition of the sundstage: "According to audiophiles, the quality of the playback is very much dependent on how one is able to pick out different instruments, voices, vocal parts, etc. exactly where they are located on an imaginary 2D or 3D field. This can enhance not only the listener's involvement in the recording but also their overall perception of the stage." It also refers to soundproofing (keeping the sound within a specific room... IE: as you say, you do not want to disturb your neighbour, you want to keep the sound to your self but without compromising the fullness of your experience!). This is a good definiton too:

The interaural time difference (or ITD) when concerning humans or animals, is the difference in arrival time of a sound between two ears. It is important in the localisation of sounds, as it provides a cue to the direction or angle of the sound source from the head. When a signal is produced in the horizontal plane, its angle in relation to the head is referred to as its azimuth, with 0 degrees (0°) azimuth being directly in front of the listener, 90° to the right, and 180° being directly behind. If a signal arrives at the head from 90° azimuth, the signal has further to travel to reach the left ear than the right. This results in a time difference between when the sound reached either ear. This is detected, and aids the process of identifying the sound source.

If you look at the Polk white paper of Polk's SDA technologies it gives you a pretty good idea of the meaning and effect, it is all about the experience! http://www.polkaudio.com/downloads/whitepapers/SDA_WhitePaper.pdf How pleased are your hears about the quality not just of the speakers but how the sound is balanced, syncronised, how effectively it fills the room from the stage, the stage being where it comes from. If you listen to a proffessional orchestra for example, the sound system has to be calibrated in such a way that the sound system accurately reflects the position of each musicians and each of their instruments. So, the same applies with your home system, it has to replicate the sound of what you are listening the same way as it was done in the studio or even live (the sound has to come to life :cool:). When listening to your music, you have to feel just like if the band, the singer(s), the musicians are playing in front of you. Must feel pure, natural and must give you a great experience just like if you were at that concert! This is a lovely memorable experience! This is what you want, no more no less! This is the WOW experience, you do not want LESS the the WOW experience and you do not want to compromise the experience.

In your specific situation, you have to avoid external subwoofer and pick speakers that provide with large audio frequencies (Low to High sound but without the BOOM effect that would disturb your neighbours). You want to aim for speakers that have the SDA technology which would provide you with a rich sound stage! In conclusion, you want FULL range speakers and you want speakers with SDA potential! I hope some passionate Polk CS can come up and provide you with some proposal of what is best for your specific situation!

Cheers!
René

Face

Sweet spot is the optimum seating position for listening. A small sweet spot would mean that you can't move your head while listening or you will lose some of the sound stage. Large sweet spot would mean you could move your head, or even share the spot with someone else without losing any losing any of the sound stage. This is due to a combination of speaker design, associated gear, and the room itself.

TheNovaKing

That is incredibly helpful, thank you so much, I think I'm going to go with the Polk SDA CRS's. From what I've read, everybody loves them. What kind should I get? There seem to be some from many different years. Do I want newer ones? Or is there a year those speakers were really exceptional?

TECHNOKID

TheNovaKing wrote: »

So, am I already pretty much screwed on quality because it's coming from a computer? I mean, an excellent speaker can't make up for the fact that what's running from it sucks... Is this true? Or is this just a myth?

Don't forget garbage in garbage out! Music form a computer isn't necessary the best but as previously mentionned:

It depends on what format the music is in. As long as it's lossless, you'll be fine. The better the associated equipment, the worse low bit rate MP3's sound.

I've had some pretty good result doing DJ using a computer and MP3 recording however, the music was recorded by a proffessional and I am convinced it made a huge difference. You can have the best gear available, garbage in will be replicated perfectly with great gear. Make sure your recording is of quality and the input gear also is and you will get good results. Many audiophiles say the speakers is where you should focus but I honestly believe the chain should match: pre-amp (palyer) amplifier (class AB or better) and speakers that are focus on quality versus power!

Cheers

Mike21

Quality of music from your computer will depend a lot on the soundcard. Soundcards in a desktop can be upgraded, but I don't think they can in a laptop. What kind of computer do you have and do you know what soundcard you have?

Marty913

Mike21 wrote: »

Quality of music from your computer will depend a lot on the soundcard. Soundcards in a desktop can be upgraded, but I don't think they can in a laptop. What kind of computer do you have and do you know what soundcard you have?

Actually they can beginning at around $30 if you have a spare USB jack. A card-type will run you more. Do a Google on Turtle Beach or Creative laptop sound cards.

reeltrouble1

computers are built to compute, music machines are built to play music, take your pick.

RT1

Face

reeltrouble1 wrote: »

computers are built to compute, music machines are built to play music, take your pick.

RT1

You say that now, but you should hear a Manley Stingray hooked up to a PC...

mmadden28

As dkg999 mentioned, the Cambridge Audio DACmagic (or similar USB capable DAC) sounds like the way to go if you're using the computer as the source. It essentially functions as your sound card. A DAC takes a digital signal, so it really doesn't matter what kind of sound card you have if you have one at all- the external DAC does all the work converting to analog. You could connect the PC to the DAC either via the Digital Coax or Optical from the sound card or use the USB connection.

Rip all your CDs to the computer in a lossless format (such as FLAC, ALC, etc.) and you'll fare much better than any of the compressed formats (mp3, wma, etc).

Use a quality player that supports the lossless formats such as MediaMonkey. Or you could use a device like a Squeezebox (use it with or without an ext DAC). The new Squeezebox Duet gives you a nice remote and ability to easily navigate your music library if you didn't want to rely on a GUI on the computer.

The rest of the audio chain will be determined on how much you want to spend and the type of sound/tech you are going for (Solid State or Tubes, etc) and the speakers. I haven't heard SDA's yet, but don't limit yourself. I can't imagine that you can't also get good sound from another type of speaker, such as the Polk LSi9's. I think speaker position will probably come in to play more so than the actual speaker though when it comes to the size of the sweet spot and the soundstage.

Just curious, have you tried the standard computer speaker setup (like this) yet?

I guess it really depends on what level you are trying to achieve and how much you want to spend.

m00npie

Face wrote: »

You say that now, but you should hear a Manley Stingray hooked up to a PC...

You said it. I think the tubes glow a bit brighter as well.

TECHNOKID

reeltrouble1 wrote: »

computers are built to compute, music machines are built to play music, take your pick.

RT1

+1! A computer is very versatile and not necessary the best option for music if you want the best experience possible. I would also avoid MP3 (Garbage in = Garbage out!).

Cheers

renowilliams

mmadden28 wrote: »

As dkg999 mentioned, the Cambridge Audio DACmagic (or similar USB capable DAC) sounds like the way to go if you're using the computer as the source. It essentially functions as your sound card. A DAC takes a digital signal, so it really doesn't matter what kind of sound card you have if you have one at all- the external DAC does all the work converting to analog. You could connect the PC to the DAC either via the Digital Coax or Optical from the sound card or use the USB connection.

Rip all your CDs to the computer in a lossless format (such as FLAC, ALC, etc.) and you'll fare much better than any of the compressed formats (mp3, wma, etc).

Use a quality player that supports the lossless formats such as MediaMonkey. Or you could use a device like a Squeezebox (use it with or without an ext DAC). The new Squeezebox Duet gives you a nice remote and ability to easily navigate your music library if you didn't want to rely on a GUI on the computer.

The rest of the audio chain will be determined on how much you want to spend and the type of sound/tech you are going for (Solid State or Tubes, etc) and the speakers. I haven't heard SDA's yet, but don't limit yourself. I can't imagine that you can't also get good sound from another type of speaker, such as the Polk LSi9's. I think speaker position will probably come in to play more so than the actual speaker though when it comes to the size of the sweet spot and the soundstage.

Just curious, have you tried the standard computer speaker setup (like this) yet?

I guess it really depends on what level you are trying to achieve and how much you want to spend.

I agree with what your saying. I use a Xonar d2x soundcard with optical out to my a/v reciever digital in and rip music to FLAC and it sounds great.

Marty913

reeltrouble1 wrote: »

computers are built to compute, music machines are built to play music, take your pick. RT1

I'd have to say "primarily built" but other than that I'm pretty sure there's not much difference between the bits stored on a hard drive and the bits / pits on a CD. Thrown in the 3 or 4 processing chips in a CD player-DAC-receiver-IPOD chain versus the Intel/AMD (or sound card) chips in the computer and it becomes a little more difficult to say one's really any different potentially than the other. I'm not sure the Audyssey sound processing system (and similar) some forum members rave over is anything more than a customized computer sound card on a chip.

TECHNOKID

Just curious, have you tried the standard computer speaker setup (like this) yet?

Potentially good for some portable if you are willing to sacrifice quality and the optimum experience. However, far from being "audiophile" set-up as the OP claims.

Cheers

TECHNOKID

some forum members rave over is anything more than a customized computer sound card on a chip.

However, there a variety in quality of sound cards. A normal ordinary computer will not have the ability of replacating music fidelity as good as an HTPC for example or a dedicated quality player. Now, if the OP has to invest money to create a quality HTPC I then feel it is a better bang for the buck to simply invest in a quality player and keep the money concentrated on quality receiver and speakers instead. It would be a waiste if the OP was invest good money on a quality receiver and speaker while providing low quality input to the system.

reeltrouble1

I would say there are some folks who do not have clue, not unusual, you have never rolled down a tunnel with me so you just have know way of knowing.

Lets face it these thoughts are echoes of others long gone.

RT1

Face

HTPC SQ and receiver SQ, what's the difference?

If you want the closest thing to hi fidelity from a PC, rip your CD's to either lossless or WAV files and use an external DAC via USB or digital coax.

Marty913

TECHNOKID wrote: »

However, there a variety in quality of sound cards. A normal ordinary computer will not have the ability of replicating music fidelity as good as an HTPC for example or a dedicated quality player. Now, if the OP has to invest money to create a quality HTPC I then feel it is a better bang for the buck to simply invest in a quality player and keep the money concentrated on quality receiver and speakers instead. It would be a waste if the OP was invest good money on a quality receiver and speaker while providing low quality input to the system.

Agreed, but if you are just storing the bits (all of them ie: WAV, Lossless) on a computer and herding them little doggies out to the "audio chain" then the computer becomes a pretty nice tool for storage, management, etc. It certainly has to start with the source music quality and continue through the chain. I probably would disagree that the logo HTPC on the front of any computer necessarily makes it any better or worse than any other computer. HTPC can mean better quality audio & video components were used but it can also mean "we stuck this sticker" on our regular machine and added XP Media Center so we could overcharge you.

reeltrouble1

Face wrote: »

You say that now, but you should hear a Manley Stingray hooked up to a PC...

if you were not so cute some of these things you say would cause you great pain.......

I am sure I hear my once proud lost Stingray crying in agnst as it does its best to make you happy, you need to respect its needs as well. I pray you are not planning to decimate the Dodd with anything foul.

RT1

reeltrouble1

Face wrote: »

HTPC SQ and receiver SQ, what's the difference?

If you want the closest thing to hi fidelity from a PC, rip your CD's to either lossless or WAV files and use an external DAC via USB or digital coax.

oh gawd........now I reeeeely am feeling ill.

disneyjoe7

reeltrouble1 wrote: »

computers are built to compute, music machines are built to play music, take your pick.

RT1

I don't know in today's world all being digital that statement is very muddy. I mean how do we separate a RedBook CD, Lossless, Digital cables, and what not. They are all 1's and 0's in the end. Computers Micros guess what again 1's and 0's in the end.

TECHNOKID

Marty913 wrote: »

Agreed, but if you are just storing the bits (all of them ie: WAV, Lossless) on a computer and herding them little doggies out to the "audio chain" then the computer becomes a pretty nice tool for storage, management, etc. It certainly has to start with the source music quality and continue through the chain. I probably would disagree that the logo HTPC on the front of any computer necessarily makes it any better or worse than any other computer. HTPC can mean better quality audio & video components were used but it can also mean "we stuck this sticker" on our regular machine and added XP Media Center so we could overcharge you.

I fully agree with your answer the only thing when I refer to HTPC, I am more likely talking about DIY where one would select quality component specific to his own needs versus buying a package, some comparable like HTIB for example where componet are at the cheapest in order to keep the package affordable. It is like the typical HT set-up, get seperates that match quality, needs and budget versus getting the pre-package questionable set-up.

Cheers

reeltrouble1

DJ,

you are muddy too, until you bathe. and you should already know better, hook your computer up to the rig and then compare against your Pioneer, as I said, its your pick.

I guess I just as well should whip it out, there is no computer that is better than many players I have heard, none, zero, nada, blip, its not something anybody deep on the path would think of doing and demonstrates a fundemental GEEK flaw. I sure as hell did not see any computers hooked up to speakers at Mr. Polk's house, lots of other stuff, but

RT1-Tubes Rule

---

hhmmmmmmm maybe if you had that first computer the one with all those gorgeous tubes........what the hell was the name of that thing, the Unizac or something, the Gucher??? FluxCapicitor, hell I cannot remember now.