Upsampling DAC and MP3
NewHTguy
Posts: 584
I hope this question at least makes sense... I've done searches and could not find the answer here or elsewhere. Does anyone know if an upsampling DAC, such as the one in the Cambridge 740c or 840c, can be used to "upsample" Mp3 music? If so, does it require jumping through any hoops, or is it just a simple digital connection? Any advice or links would be appreciated!
MAIN: Polk Lsi9s; Polk PSW505; Lsic (in box); Onkyo SR-875; Parasound 2250; Cambridge Audio 740C; LG BD370
OFFICE: Polk Lsi7; REL T3; HK 3490; CA 840W; Onkyo C-S5VL
BENCHED: CS20; OWM3s
OFFICE: Polk Lsi7; REL T3; HK 3490; CA 840W; Onkyo C-S5VL
BENCHED: CS20; OWM3s
Post edited by NewHTguy on
Comments
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It might upsample, but it will not restore the music. MP3 by definition is lossy, and once the data is gone, it is gone forever. Use lossless encoding, and then the DAC upsampling circuitry has something to work with.Lumin X1 file player, Westminster Labs interconnect cable
Sony XA-5400ES SACD; Pass XP-22 pre; X600.5 amps
Magico S5 MKII Mcast Rose speakers; SPOD spikes
Shunyata Triton v3/Typhon QR on source, Denali 2000 (2) on amps
Shunyata Sigma XLR analog ICs, Sigma speaker cables
Shunyata Sigma HC (2), Sigma Analog, Sigma Digital, Z Anaconda (3) power cables
Mapleshade Samson V.3 four shelf solid maple rack, Micropoint brass footers
Three 20 amp circuits. -
I know MP3 is lossy and it would not be my preferred format. But it would be a nice added benefit. Just icing on the cake.MAIN: Polk Lsi9s; Polk PSW505; Lsic (in box); Onkyo SR-875; Parasound 2250; Cambridge Audio 740C; LG BD370
OFFICE: Polk Lsi7; REL T3; HK 3490; CA 840W; Onkyo C-S5VL
BENCHED: CS20; OWM3s -
I know MP3 is lossy and it would not be my preferred format. But it would be a nice added benefit. Just icing on the cake.
There is no icing on the cake with lossy formats. It will still sound like an mp3 which is to say it will sound poorer than the original."Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Puritan Audio PSM136 Pwr Condtioner & Classic PC's | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node3 - Tubes add soul! -
Are you saying there would be no impovement, or just not up to the level you consider acceptable? I don't have a music server at the moment, so it is ipod or nothing.MAIN: Polk Lsi9s; Polk PSW505; Lsic (in box); Onkyo SR-875; Parasound 2250; Cambridge Audio 740C; LG BD370
OFFICE: Polk Lsi7; REL T3; HK 3490; CA 840W; Onkyo C-S5VL
BENCHED: CS20; OWM3s -
No improvement."Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Puritan Audio PSM136 Pwr Condtioner & Classic PC's | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node3 - Tubes add soul!
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Are you saying there would be no impovement, or just not up to the level you consider acceptable? I don't have a music server at the moment, so it is ipod or nothing.
An iPod is a Music Server IF you store the music using either Apple Lossless or uncompressed, AND use a Wadia iTransport as the dock. The Wadia is the only dock that provides the digital output from the iPod, and you run it into an external DAC for excellent sounding music.
I have 1200 songs, classical, on my iPod Classic and still have 80GB of space left. Musically, the iPod/Wadia has to be one of the best things I have ever purchased. Of course, if I did not already have a Benchmark Dac1 it would not have been a very good purchase.
http://www.wadia.com/products/transports/Lumin X1 file player, Westminster Labs interconnect cable
Sony XA-5400ES SACD; Pass XP-22 pre; X600.5 amps
Magico S5 MKII Mcast Rose speakers; SPOD spikes
Shunyata Triton v3/Typhon QR on source, Denali 2000 (2) on amps
Shunyata Sigma XLR analog ICs, Sigma speaker cables
Shunyata Sigma HC (2), Sigma Analog, Sigma Digital, Z Anaconda (3) power cables
Mapleshade Samson V.3 four shelf solid maple rack, Micropoint brass footers
Three 20 amp circuits. -
Heiney, thanks.
Bluefox, Thanks for the follow up. I'll look into Wadia itransport dock.
Guess the upshot is to use lossless or uncompressed, end of story. The Whathifi review of the dacmagic gave me the impressin that it would work with mp3s.MAIN: Polk Lsi9s; Polk PSW505; Lsic (in box); Onkyo SR-875; Parasound 2250; Cambridge Audio 740C; LG BD370
OFFICE: Polk Lsi7; REL T3; HK 3490; CA 840W; Onkyo C-S5VL
BENCHED: CS20; OWM3s -
Heiney, thanks.
Bluefox, Thanks for the follow up. I'll look into Wadia itransport dock.
Guess the upshot is to use lossless or uncompressed, end of story. The Whathifi review of the dacmagic gave me the impressin that it would work with mp3s.
If you are buying with the sole idea of trying to make mp3's sound better....then no, don't do it. If you are buying it to have a nice sounding dac for current and future use, sure why not.
The fact is even if the upsampling affected the mp3 output, the difference (read improvement, would be minimal at best).
In the long run....lossless is better if you are looking for the best most accurate sound reproduction. Trying to "upsample" lossy encoded files is a waste of time and money.
GL
H9"Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Puritan Audio PSM136 Pwr Condtioner & Classic PC's | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node3 - Tubes add soul! -
I get your point. When I think about it, storage has become so cheap I am starting to wonder if Mp3s have outlived their usefulness. With 128 megs of storage they certainly made sense. But with 128 GIGS, not so much. (I just heard that Apple is coming out with a shuffle that holds 4 gigs and is the size of a AA battery!)
This forum is really great. I've learned a lot in the last year or so that I've read it.MAIN: Polk Lsi9s; Polk PSW505; Lsic (in box); Onkyo SR-875; Parasound 2250; Cambridge Audio 740C; LG BD370
OFFICE: Polk Lsi7; REL T3; HK 3490; CA 840W; Onkyo C-S5VL
BENCHED: CS20; OWM3s -
I get your point. When I think about it, storage has become so cheap I am starting to wonder if Mp3s have outlived their usefulness. With 128 megs of storage they certainly made sense. But with 128 GIGS, not so much. (I just heard that Apple is coming out with a shuffle that holds 4 gigs and is the size of a AA battery!)
Yes, not to thread jack but to further the above comment. A year or so ago I bit the bullet and re-converted every physical CD and WAV (vinyl extracted) file I had to lossless. It only wound up being a couple thousand songs and I damn sure wouldn't want to do it again. Downloaded stuff is another issue and may not be fixable but the effort is worth it. It will only get harder as your library grows.Sony 60'' SXRD 1080p
Amp = Carver AV-705THX 5-Channel
Processor = NAD T747
Panasonic BD35 Blu-Ray
Main = SDA-1C Studio with RD0s, spikes, XO rebuild, rings, I/C upgrade
Center=Polk CS10, Surround = Athena Dipoles, Sub= Boston 12HO
Music/Video Streaming = Netgear NEO550
TT = Audio Technica -
I might be wrong, but MP3 is a lossy audio codec. An MP3 player (like IPod) is a mini music server.
I have downloaded on my desktop PC many MP3 tracks from various on-line stores. They download at 16bit/44.1 kHz. I have an external DAC with which I can upsample MP3 to 24bit and/or 48kHz. On my system there is no sound improvement on MP3 tracks w/ the upsampling.
However, I also download the more expensive lossless codecs (like FLAC). These tracks do benefit from upsampling on my system.____________________________________________
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PC stereo: Viper custom PC: Windows XP; ASIO4ALL; JRiver Jukebox> Pop Pulse USB to S/PDIF conv> Monarchy DIP > Musiland MD10 DAC > Parasound 2100 pre> Aragon 4004 MKII amp> Dali Ikon6 towers; Sunfire True Sub; PSA Duet, Ultimate outlet and Noise Harvestors. -
I recently added the Wadia ITransport with Classic IPod and PS Audio Digital Link III DAC to my 2 channel system. My files were always AIFF from the start, because that's just me. Along with my other equipment in that room, I wanted to have a small music server. This combo is connected to my tube preamp and I'm playing everything through my Acoustat 2 + 2 electrostatic speakers, which don't forgive much in the recording quality department. The result is pretty amazing-very sweet articulate sound-fantastic bottom end extension without bloat. Now I'm planning to add another DAC to my surround system as I have a Mac Mini server in that room.
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I recently added the Wadia ITransport with Classic IPod and PS Audio Digital Link III DAC to my 2 channel system. My files were always AIFF from the start, because that's just me. Along with my other equipment in that room, I wanted to have a small music server. This combo is connected to my tube preamp and I'm playing everything through my Acoustat 2 + 2 electrostatic speakers, which don't forgive much in the recording quality department. The result is pretty amazing-very sweet articulate sound-fantastic bottom end extension without bloat. Now I'm planning to add another DAC to my surround system as I have a Mac Mini server in that room.
I think the OP was talking about lossy files, not lossless files. I use a squeezebox and flac files from my computer over a wireless system and an external DAC for my music server. I have been skeptical for a few years this would be as good as the originals. Well, so far I've been wrong and I can't tell a difference. I am enjoying the convenience and simplicity of the Squeezebox.
H9"Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Puritan Audio PSM136 Pwr Condtioner & Classic PC's | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node3 - Tubes add soul!
