The Y Generation and the death of audio

nooshinjohn

I have been spending my evening travelling down memory lane, enjoying the sweet sounds emanating from my Polks, when a couple of recently purchased cd's came up on my changer. I was at one of the last performances given by The Judds before Momma Judd was forced into retirement by hepatitis. As I closed my eyes and took in the sound of their harmonies, I was transported back in time. It was a happier place that seemed so full of hope and promise. The next disc to pop up was a collection of George Jones' greatest hits. Again my journey back through time took me to a place that seemed so much better than today. I remembered these songs as those on my dad's 8-track player when he caught me driving the family Buick without a license. That day I thought I was dead:eek:....

I am a music lover of many different genres, classical, pop, jazz, metal, and all in between. It occured to me that the generation that is coming up today has no clue as to what music means to the heart and soul. There was another post I read on a different forum that referenced a similar line of thought and I agree with it to an extent, but feel that what really is missing from music and from life is the passion to persue greatness.

To be sure, it does exist in some aspects of our lives, but sadly seems to be missing from many areas that made our country great. When was the last time McDonalds tasted good or when was the last time a Coke tasted like the REAL thing. :DFortunately for the latter, cokes from Mexico taste like ours did 30 years ago, and I can get them by the case from a mexican market here by my house...

I concur with the post on the other forum that Audiofile quality is a dying artform that is being replaced by the mediocrity of mass market crap, and the acceptance of such garbage as being state-of-the-art.:eek:

The bottom line is that we must find ways to open the minds of the younger generations to embrace the passion within them to not follow the path of least resistance and to persue excellence in all they do, and to accept nothing less that the same from others...;)

LessisNevermore

fyi, Mexican Coke is still made with cane sugar, and I agree, MUCH better.

There is still good music being released, but the labels insist on riding the fader into the red at the mastering houses. (otherwise known as the "suck" button):mad:

arkaig1

Ditto Canadian and European Coke.

timlitton

I had a similar conversation with one of my buds the other day. We came to the conclusion that music has been proclaimed "dead" for every generation. But, there are always good musicians doing uplifting hope-filled songs if that's what you like. The real difference is our perspective on things.

When you're 15 and start listening to the music you choose, rather than what your parents have on in the house or the bus driver plays on the way to school, you're wide-eyed and entranced by the world. It's your first taste of life and you meld some of those feeling with the music you listen to at the time. All your "firsts" will be set to some imaginary soundtrack of the time, whether you realize it or not.

Play those songs back, and it resonates a set of feelings that have less to do with the song than with the nostalgia associated with a time period or group of times.

Early B.

Few audiophiles have the balls to admit it publicly, but the biggest problem with this hobby is the music. If we could focus solely on the gear, it would be a better hobby. Kinda like show cars -- those guys don't drive them to work everyday, they just admire how they look.

mhardy6647

Early B. wrote: »

Few audiophiles have the balls to admit it publicly, but the biggest problem with this hobby is the music. If we could focus solely on the gear, it would be a better hobby. Kinda like show cars -- those guys don't drive them to work everyday, they just admire how they look.

Interesting perspective... although I still occasionally see people commuting to work in Porsches. In Massachusetts. In the winter.

Pauly

Not 100% True. I hit alot of local live shows. Blues, Blues Rock etc.. And it is still out there, just not as wide spread as it might have been years ago. What makes it better for me is when i find that rare gem of a Band, get a copy of their music and spread it around. Its a great feeling. Just gotta look harder IMO

Pauly

Systems

Well one this is for sure, with all the ipods, boomboxes, crappy stereos, etc. that are out there these days. Most of the younger generation have not heard a good sounding system....

steveinaz

When you are given everything you want (generation Y), you find it difficult to have anything to aspire to (dream for). Music for our generation, filled in the gaps and allowed us to dream of things we didn't have. I believe this is why older generations appreciate music, it was so much more than a performance.

treitz3

^^^good post^^^

timlitton

On one hand I see kids being exposed to overcompressed mp3's as the format du jour and it looks bad for quality audio.

Yet on the other hand, when I was young, tape was king and sounded like crapola. Far worse than mp3. Before tape, it was mono recordings on tiny transistor radios.

There was no SACD. There was no lossless audio... period. The speakers were big and most sounded like junk. There were definitely exceptions, but the speakers I grew up with weren't even at the mediocre-fi level I have today.

Most of our kids are being exposed to home theaters that sound better than the pre Star Wars theaters. There was no Dolby Digital.No DTS HD uncompressed masters and certainly no audio components with the ability to play them.

Even 10 years ago, amps were big and so was the pricetag. Now with newer class D amps, power is compact and becoming more affordable.

There are cheap consumer audio programs that are more powerful today than the first generation of ProTools I was trained on. The computers are faster, far more powerful and are everywhere. Kids are able to do things today, that were either impossible 20 years ago or would have cost hundreds of thousands of dollars.

My point is, don't be so quick to read hi-fi's eulogy. There are many, many more technologies and outlets within reach of today's youth that may spark them to yearn for better and better sound. I'd wager that quality audio is in no danger of extinction.

nooshinjohn

Sadly I have taken much of what has been said into account... how good does your audio set-up need to be to play brittany spears or rap music to its full potential. In fact, this generation has given up on musical talent all together since they are sampling/ripping off musicians work from 50 years ago just to find a melody to destroy by using foul mouthed and offensive lyrics to put over them. They don't even have the skills to actually sing...

In a day where you can pretty much master a recording on your pc without any actual musical ability whatsoever, how best to play it back? IPOD... When I happen to catch shows that have celebrities showing off their homes, they always show the plasma. I have yet to see a set of speakers and go WOW!!!! they never show the audio side of anything. Music will always survive to be sure, but the gear needed to enjoy it... sadly is fading fast. The only way some of my favorite audio stores are surviving is by giving up on it and going custom install of home theatre. They no longer deal with you unless you are ready to drop 20k plus, and if they don't install it for you, you cannot even buy gear from them any more....

zombie boy 2000

Pauly wrote: »

Not 100% True. I hit alot of local live shows. Blues, Blues Rock etc.. And it is still out there, just not as wide spread as it might have been years ago. What makes it better for me is when i find that rare gem of a Band, get a copy of their music and spread it around. Its a great feeling. Just gotta look harder IMO

Pauly

I couldn't of said it better myself.

reeltrouble1

my system images so well I can tell you within a millimeter the size Brittany's areola's when she sings that Ooops I did it Again thing.

Well guys, I recall my Father getting on my **** about the music of our day, how, it was junk, not real music, noise, to some extent he was correct, he would drag me off to concerts for classical and jazz ensemble's, when its all said and done, there are 12 notes, just how you mix them up that the talent comes in, I got feeling it is going to alright, besides, what is written will be around as long as someone is willing to listen.

RT1--Tubes Rule.

shack

Some of the music of "my day" was absolute garbage. I liked it then...I like it now. It's not always about the "quality" of the music, the quality of the recording or even the quality of the gear. Sometimes it's just about what you like...no more...no less.

markmarc

Zero wrote: »

Instead of toking up in the basement and listening to your favorite pink floyd album with your friends, young people these days toke up and go play ps3 or xbox. Times change. Although the love for music will never go away, the means of which it is experienced sure as hell has. Unfortunately, those changes are bad news for the audiophile.

BINGO!!
Zero nailed it, music isn't experienced in a way that allows for communication and equipment discussions. In high school and college, my buddies and I each had a stereo and when a new album came out, we'd end up listening to it together.

I watch my students now and they listen on their iPods alone, and talk about the groups, but not at the same time. Comparing artists skills and how they play just isn't a part of the discussion.

SolidSqual

nooshinjohn wrote: »

I remembered these songs as those on my dad's 8-track player when he caught me driving the family Buick without a license. That day I thought I was dead:eek:....

So, what you're saying is that some music invokes moments of nostalgia and reminds you of times when you were an idiot and willing to commit a felony?

nooshinjohn wrote: »

I am a music lover of many different genres, classical, pop, jazz, metal, and all in between. It occured to me that the generation that is coming up today has no clue as to what music means to the heart and soul.

This is not at all a sweeping statement. You don't get their music. They don't get yours. Elvis Presley anyone? You judge them before they have a chance to mature and grow their musical tastes. Also, you assume pumping techno music or poetic rap doesn't invoke the same emotions in today's youngsters.

nooshinjohn wrote: »

There was another post I read on a different forum that referenced a similar line of thought and I agree with it to an extent, but feel that what really is missing from music and from life is the passion to persue greatness.

Music has never compelled me to pursue greatness. In fact, it's an instrument of escape from all the other crap going on in my life that most people would define as a pursuit towards some degree of greatness.

I just can't get over . . . "Passion to Pursue Greatness" . . . I would argue the greatest bands of all time pursued a path of destruction.

nooshinjohn wrote: »

To be sure, it does exist in some aspects of our lives, but sadly seems to be missing from many areas that made our country great. When was the last time McDonalds tasted good or when was the last time a Coke tasted like the REAL thing. :DFortunately for the latter, cokes from Mexico taste like ours did 30 years ago, and I can get them by the case from a mexican market here by my house...

You act as if the Y Generation is the culprit, they are the victims. You can thank the WWII generation for demanding liberal government programs upon their return from the war and the hippie baby boomers making sure the programs stayed for good.

nooshinjohn wrote: »

I concur with the post on the other forum that Audiofile quality is a dying artform that is being replaced by the mediocrity of mass market crap, and the acceptance of such garbage as being state-of-the-art.:eek:

It's been said before, but the markets dictates . . . if audiophile companies make products that the masses can't afford, then what do they have to complain about. Also, this hobby is supposed to be about the music. You don't need a bad **** stereo to enjoy it.

nooshinjohn wrote: »

The bottom line is that we must find ways to open the minds of the younger generations to embrace the passion within them to not follow the path of least resistance and to persue excellence in all they do, and to accept nothing less that the same from others...;)

You go find a way if it's your personal mission. This "WE" crap is ridiculous. You don't plan on doing anything. You're doing nothing like the people you are criticizing.

Finally, has much really changed? I have the privilege of being around of tons of extremely ambitious and motivated young people all day. At the same time, all I need to do is walk down the street to see lazy punks sitting around doing nothing. Has much really changed from your day to mine? Some people have always been lazy while others are passionate.

66chevyIISS

Zero wrote: »

Add to that the audio 'industries' self-sabotage by pricing themselves well out of reach to the casual consumer, and the average smug armchair audiophile that prefers to **** and moan about the 'state of things', rather than invest the effort into setting up an affordable system so that friends and family may share the experience - and well, home audio's got a serious problem.

I think Zero nailed it more here then in the previous paragraph. Kids can buy a $100 ipod a lot easier then a $2,000 2 channel stereo. Even buying used through craigslist you're still well over the normal amount of money the avg teenager can afford to lose.

hearingimpared

I set up my 12 year old with a little rig. He has asked me to get him copies of the Beatles, Pink Floyd, Led Zep, Black Sabbath among others. He also listens to rap not the gangster type. He listens to the local classic rock & jazz FM channels and plays his sax along with them. He and my 25 year old son are chips off the old block.


Edit: The little guy is always asking me to bring him into my music room to listen to the big rig with me.

I think my generation Ys are going to be just fine when it comes to this curse of audiophila.:D

Sami

timlitton wrote: »

Excellent post Tim, saved me time as well.

Systems

"Finally, has much really changed? I have the privilege of being around of tons of extremely ambitious and motivated young people all day. At the same time, all I need to do is walk down the street to see lazy punks sitting around doing nothing. Has much really changed from your day to mine? Some people have always been lazy while others are passionate."

Yes, very true, but.....I think that the scale has swung over towards the lazy side, mostly because parents these days hand them anything they want....

Sami

Lorthos wrote: »

Yes, very true, but.....I think that the scale has swung over towards the lazy side, mostly because parents these days hand them anything they want....

And that's probably what our grandparents said about our generation...

hearingimpared

Sami wrote: »

And that's probably what our grandparents said about our generation...

Our parents at least those of us whose parents lived through the Great Depression said the same of us especially when it came to music.

cnh

There are a lot of good points for and against above. In the end, you also have to admit, as someone does, that the previous generation does have some effect.

My father was not really an audiophile, but he exposed me to Segovia 78s and was a crooner who played the guitar and appreciated good live sound--this led him to purchase a pretty good reel-to-reel tape deck for his own recording purposes and back then you could buy prerecorded tapes that were of higher quality than cassettes and 8 tracks--because of the quality of the tape and the speed it ran at.

Hearing what good sound was like live and hearing a pretty good recording of live sound...set me to looking at equipment, amps, receivers, speakers, etc. My son just recently moved out of the house. He's an Xbox man, but I encouraged him to buy a PS3 that was bundled with a Samsung LCD and I gave him some of my old gear--Yamaha, and hooked it up for him. I tried to explain a few things about good sound and systems...most of his music is on an ipod? Don't know if that will have an affect or not. But I do think that if there is one thing left that a senior generation can pass onto the one below it. It is certainly the knowledge, experience, and wisdom gained over a lifetime of listening, learning, tweaking and upgrading?

No?

cnh

SolidSqual

Do you think to some extent audiophiles are just wired a certain way? I'm the one teaching my Dad about good sound. Although, I will give him credit for breaking my Pearl Jam CD back in the day and declaring it crap and then going out and buying me a Led Zeppelin Boxed set.

reeltrouble1

During PF08 Jim Herd addressed the group and said he son and son's friends commented on how loud Jim likes to play his music, the moral of his story is that the music the young ones are listening to on their portable devices just does not hold up to the SPL we all used, they are used to it being soft, so it can be bearable.

RT1

SolidSqual

reeltrouble1 wrote: »

During PF08 Jim Herd addressed the group and said he son and son's friends commented on how loud Jim likes to play his music, the moral of his story is that the music the young ones are listening to on their portable devices just does not hold up to the SPL we all used, they are used to it being soft, so it can be bearable.

RT1

Haha . . . are you kidding. Every idiot I know blares his stereo. It may sound like crap, but it's not soft. Have you been to a dance club lately? You'll leave with your ears ringing every time.

bikezappa

The music scene has changed. Not much anyone can do about it. Part of the change is that almost ALL live music uses electronics now. There are more people listening and the artist needs to play it louder and electronics do the job. More people listening means more money for the artist and others.

This change is that IMHO a guitar played live with out amplification or a person singing without amplification will sound very different regardless of the quality of the electronics.

Since very few performances are live without electronics nobody gets to listen to a live voice. Maybe we don't know the difference between live singing and singing with electronics anymore.

I truly believe that there is a large difference between pure live music and music with electronics. But since we have very little oppertunity to hear it we don't care or notice the loss. Thus the birth of the I-Pob and **** recordings. If we all eat **** fast food we would never know what better fresh food tastes like.

There are good recording out there that try to duplicate as best as possible the live accoustic experience. Most music today has no accoustic base however. I will not name names hear so not to piss anyone off.

Wouldn't you like to hear D Krell live without the electronics?

obieone

I'm not 100% sure what the OP is lamenting about, but, I'll jump into the fray.

"Let's work smarter, NOT harder" is something my old Chief in the Navy used to say.
If you don't have to bust your balls.... DON'T!:rolleyes:
Just because music is more convenient, doesn't mean people aren't still passionate about it. We might not ALL have turntables and tubes, but we still come to places like this and........?

"Cocaine addiction is God's way of telling you that you make too much money" I believe can be attributed to Steve Martin, but I may be wrong
Looking around the web, there are PLENTY of hifi manufacturers, for people who make TOO much money.:eek::D

I woundn't be too worried about the fate this hobby/ obsession:)

cfrizz

Some great posts above. No matter what todays kids are listening to music on, at least they are listening to music.

Wanting to get better sound will come with time, earning more money & age.

Audio is alive & well and will continue forever. And each generation will always decry the end of audio as we know it.

I personally don't give a rats behind what todays kids are listening to, since I'm not listening to their music & they are not listening to mine. So long as I can listen to MY music, on the gear of MY choice, I'm a happy camper.

dorokusai

High fidelity is for losers.