The Stock Market Took Another Dump Today to 1997 Level

kingtut
kingtut Posts: 813
edited February 2009 in The Clubhouse
The economy has not been this bad for a long, long time, and it shows in the stock market. All the major indices have been tumbling since the last quarter of last year, and today the Dow Jones & the S&P 500 fell to the 1997 level. I wish I have the cash to invest. Anyone else investing, or sitting on the sideline to see what's next?
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  • cnh
    cnh Posts: 13,284
    edited February 2009
    I'm not touching this market for a while. And I think it's going to go a lot lower. Personally I don't expect to recover retirement investments till 2019 and by then we'll probably have another 'bubble' episode, i.e., recession--collapse.

    Even Warren Buffet is taking a bit of a hit!

    cnh
    Currently orbiting Bowie's Blackstar.!

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  • dragon1952
    dragon1952 Posts: 4,899
    edited February 2009
    I am so glad I got my 401K out of the market in January last year. I'd already lost about 15%, and it was tempting to leave it in and 'try and get my money back'. Best move I ever made. I made a 'paltry' 3.75% instead of losing half of it.
    2 channel - Willsenton R8 tube integrated, Holo Audio Spring 3 KTE DAC, audio optimized NUC7i5, Windows 10 Pro/JRiver MC29/Fidelizer Plus 8.7 w/LPS and external SSD drive, PS Audio PerfectWave P3 regenerator, KEF R3 speakers, Rythmik F12SE subwoofer, Audioquest Diamond USB cable, Gabriel Gold IC's, Morrow Audio SP5 speaker cables. Computer - Windows 10/JRiver, Schiit Magni 3+/Modi 3+, Fostex PMO.4n monitors, Sennheiser HD600 headphones
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  • kingtut
    kingtut Posts: 813
    edited February 2009
    Dragon, nice job. My retirement portfolio is already down over 45%. I have to work for at least another 15 plus years, so at least I have some time to recover.
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  • nadams
    nadams Posts: 5,877
    edited February 2009
    Wish I had money to invest. Now would be the best time for me to start my retirement, but right now I'm more secure putting that extra money into the house and get more principle paid off.
    Ludicrous gibs!
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  • treitz3
    treitz3 Posts: 18,987
    edited February 2009
    We will start to see the effects of the second bubble come some time around December of this year. I'm saving every penny that I can get my grubby paws on.
    ~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~
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  • Hobbyguy
    Hobbyguy Posts: 317
    edited February 2009
    The 7200 point on the DOW was supposed to be a resistance and now it has been breached. Some say that once this happens it may tumble quickly 2000-3000. I have 1/4 in the market, 1/4 in physical metals (gold,silver,platinum) and 1/2 in cash. It is impossible to time the market and thats why I have been buying small amounts. Inflation is sure to follow soon and you might want to look into precious metals/mining stocks (cde was up 5% today and up already 5% tomorrow). There are other companies like FRM that have a strong balance sheet and excellent sales and income growth that is way undervalued.
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  • phipiper10
    phipiper10 Posts: 955
    edited February 2009
    Certainly more fear than greed right now in the markets and that means more downward pressure. We've heard about the layoffs etc....but there is more pain on the way. More companies with layoffs lower profits and as people continue to tighten companies get squeezed even more etc etc.... It's a bad cycle right now...

    Where it stops nobody knows!!
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  • treitz3
    treitz3 Posts: 18,987
    edited February 2009
    phipiper10 wrote: »
    Where it stops nobody knows!!
    That's the scary part. This is no ordinary recession.
    ~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~
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  • obieone
    obieone Posts: 5,077
    edited February 2009
    Apparently, Wall st. doesn't BELIEVE!!!
    I refuse to argue with idiots, because people can't tell the DIFFERENCE!
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  • exalted512
    exalted512 Posts: 10,735
    edited February 2009
    I pulled all my money a few months ago...damn glad I did.
    -Cody
    Music is like candy, you have to get rid of the rappers to enjoy it
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  • danger boy
    danger boy Posts: 15,722
    edited February 2009
    so when do we call it a stock market crash, when it reaches 5000, 4000, or 2500? this is horrible.

    I will now have to work past the time I croak. :mad:

    People keep telling me. wait, it'll bounce back.. just gotta ride it out.. pfft! now way in hell I'll ever be able to make up the nearly 60% I lost out of my 401K.

    None of us has a crystal ball of course.. but I highly doubt we'll see the DOW reach 10,000 ever again. that's my .02
    PolkFest 2012, who's going>?
    Vancouver, Canada Sept 30th, 2012 - Madonna concert :cheesygrin:
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  • dagame27
    dagame27 Posts: 574
    edited February 2009
    I've begun to put some money into the market. I've been pumping some money into GE, Alcoa, and Tyson recently. I made some money off of Andarko during the oil boom, and Tyson has made me some. No doubt that GE and Alcoa has largely sucked though. Golden rule; you haven't lost anything until you sell!
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  • nooshinjohn
    nooshinjohn Posts: 25,380
    edited February 2009
    looks to me like we have 1979 AND 1929 all over again
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  • shack
    shack Posts: 11,154
    edited February 2009
    About half of my retirement is in cash and cds. It used to be 25% :(. It hasn't grown so much as my equities have shrunk. I'm holding everything I have in equities. History tells us when the market turns from a bear market to a true bull market, one will recover 80% of the bear market losses within the first year. I'm also buying to the tune of about $1,000 per month and am probably going to double that as I am able to take advantage of the "401-k catchup rules" for those over 50.
    "Just because you’re offended doesn’t mean you’re right." - Ricky Gervais

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  • danger boy
    danger boy Posts: 15,722
    edited February 2009
    Guess life would be to easy for us if everything we saved we actually were able to enjoy later in life. :(
    PolkFest 2012, who's going>?
    Vancouver, Canada Sept 30th, 2012 - Madonna concert :cheesygrin:
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  • SKsolutions
    SKsolutions Posts: 1,820
    edited February 2009
    To think that the market -in it's present form, will follow any historical data, when there is no such data or precedent, is level of optimism that will, and already has, cost many people years of their lives at labor. All the protections were lost, and it was like the wild west on Wall St.
    I wonder what the mood will be on Thursday/Friday.
    WH press briefing: Gibbs
    "putting some disaster spending back on budget; and understanding that what that will show you on Thursday is a deficit far bigger and far redder than what might have first been imagined, because for many years we've used tricks and gimmicks to mask the size of our irresponsibility."

    When it's really too late to do any good, they admit it. Priceless.
    -Ignorance is strength -
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  • Hobbyguy
    Hobbyguy Posts: 317
    edited February 2009
    If you know how to play options you can still make money. Sell short during a bear run . (But imo short selling is part of the problem). If the market is going down another 3000 still alot of money to be made selling short.
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  • reeltrouble1
    reeltrouble1 Posts: 9,312
    edited February 2009
    errr......it is tough, like many here I know I am down over six figures, well, I pulled before this last plunge, anyway, I am out of this job in 2.5 years so I will have what it is at that time.

    It has always come back, always. But I want to enjoy a bit of my retirement.
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  • shack
    shack Posts: 11,154
    edited February 2009
    Hobbyguy wrote:
    If you know how to play options you can still make money. Sell short during a bear run . (But imo short selling is part of the problem). If the market is going down another 3000 still alot of money to be made selling short.

    This and speculating on commodities is one of the banes of our current investment crisis. The ability to hedge and lock in prices made options a good and useful tool to stockholders and and commodity dealers. Of course is is necessary to have one willing to take the opposite position to yours to lock in the price. But as with many good things...it has been sorely abused and is now a gambling tool many hoping to get rich quick. By it's nature it is much more risky and much higher leveraged than you typical investment. It creates issues in the market as large positions must move to meet calls. It was originally intended to help even out the market...but now it works exactly the opposite. Today we pay more attention to crude oil futures than the actual price of a barrel or oil. That was never the intent of the system and it is not a good thing.
    "Just because you’re offended doesn’t mean you’re right." - Ricky Gervais

    "For those who believe, no proof is necessary. For those who don't believe, no proof is possible." - Stuart Chase

    "Consistency requires you to be as ignorant today as you were a year ago." - Bernard Berenson
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  • reeltrouble1
    reeltrouble1 Posts: 9,312
    edited February 2009
    exactly, the model has become so skewed. Its not about long term growth based on solid business investment, sure selling short has been around, but not like this.

    If I can make the 3.75/4.00 on what I have today I will in fact be just fine, its just hard to accept that rate of return givin the years which were so good, anyway, all my research indicates an extended flat ride, 2-3 years, I am out for now, besides I already got a killer audio rig and exceptional family, what more can a man ask for.

    I still think it will come back, if I were a young man with years and years to go I would be buying like crazy and just hold on, hell, you want to buy low and you have never really lost it until you sell it.

    RT1
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  • Mike Reeter
    Mike Reeter Posts: 4,315
    edited February 2009
    The Market is rallying today,a lota people buying back in...There are some very good,solid companies out there that has some very inexpensive stock right now.
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  • cnh
    cnh Posts: 13,284
    edited February 2009
    shack wrote: »
    This and speculating on commodities is one of the banes of our current investment crisis. The ability to hedge and lock in prices made options a good and useful tool to stockholders and and commodity dealers. Of course is is necessary to have one willing to take the opposite position to yours to lock in the price. But as with many good things...it has been sorely abused and is now a gambling tool many hoping to get rich quick. By it's nature it is much more risky and much higher leveraged than you typical investment. It creates issues in the market as large positions must move to meet calls. It was originally intended to help even out the market...but now it works exactly the opposite. Today we pay more attention to crude oil futures than the actual price of a barrel or oil. That was never the intent of the system and it is not a good thing.

    An Amen to that! I couldn't agree more with you! That's exactly the problem or at least one major problem!

    cnh
    Currently orbiting Bowie's Blackstar.!

    Polk Lsi-7s, Def Tech 8" sub, HK 3490, HK HD 990 (CDP/DAC), AKG Q701s
    [sig. changed on a monthly basis as I rotate in and out of my stash]
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  • Hobbyguy
    Hobbyguy Posts: 317
    edited February 2009
    Short selling is not the problem. The problem was the magnitude of sub-prime mortgage-backed securities. So many large institutions bought heavily into these because the short term return was very good. Nobody knew the true value of these junk securities but the frenzy started and the bulls ran. This was ok until people started to default on their mortgages in record numbers. Malignant (insider) investors knew which institutions were heavy in these securities and then shorted them with a vengance...and made a fortune. This is good because this company did not do what it is supposed to do...invest with wisdom and prudence.This is weeding out the chaf and without government backing alot of companies would have gone insolvent. Was this good or bad? Who knows. At this time many large institutions did not know how involved they were in the subprime business and alot of companies sold stocks heavily to try to remain solvent. Foreign investors also sold heavily. They saw our government trying to bail out large companies only to see many of these companies pocket the money for board members bonuses with complete disregard to shareholders....even preferred institution stocks. Once institutions figure out how solvent their business/company is and that it is still profitable then they will stop sitting on their cash hoards and buy back.
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  • reeltrouble1
    reeltrouble1 Posts: 9,312
    edited February 2009
    jdhiggs???

    RT1
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  • goingganzo
    goingganzo Posts: 2,793
    edited February 2009
    this is a great news for me at least i can buy at rock botom prices. heck maybe i will try and buy a repo house for dirt cheap.
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  • Music Joe
    Music Joe Posts: 459
    edited February 2009
    Beef it's what's for dinner.
    Squirrel it's what's for dinner.
    Neighbor it's what's for dinner.
    "The Web is a monoblog"
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