Too much bass doesn't exist....

TheMARPATNinja7

I have a PSW505 and am interested in buying another one. My AVR only has one sub preout and I want to aviod the whole "connecting my fronts to sub sw terminals" thing. Is my best choice to buy a Y cable and run them both off of that? Will I lose a noticeable amount of sound quality or risk blowing something out if I do it this way?

ben62670

You are fine running two subs with a Y. You won't lose any power.
Ben

TheMARPATNinja7

Awesome, no quality loss either?

megasat16

TheMARPATNinja7 wrote: »

Awesome, no quality loss either?

The answer is No, Sir! No Quality Loss For Running Two Subs Through Y Cable.

Fongolio

I've been running my two 10's off a Y for over a year and no problem or sound quality loss whatsoever.

TheMARPATNinja7

Excellent, I can't wait.

Montoya

If your worried about signal loss get a hard splitter from audioquest.

TheMARPATNinja7 wrote: »

Excellent, I can't wait.

Tanquen

Are there subs you can daisy chain?

avhomedesigns

yes, you can daisy chain some subs- Some have an audio output that can daisy chained to another so go crazy!!

avhomedesigns

Alot of your high end receivers also offer two sub outputs

apphd

avhomedesigns wrote: »

Alot of your high end receivers also offer two sub outputs

The Yam 663 has 2 sub outs, so it is not just limited to high end AVR's. But for all that do offer it (that I know of) it's just a built in Y connector in all reality.

HDMIKE

Yeah, since the sub only gets a MONO signal you can split it as many times as you need. In a perfect world I'd have 4 subs!!!

Call me sub crazy!!!

gsquared

while i agree that there is never too much bass, I'm wondering if your sub placement/arrangement with that many (4+) could start to produce wave interference or other undesirable effects.

pearsall001

gsquared wrote: »

while i agree that there is never too much bass, I'm wondering if your sub placement/arrangement with that many (4+) could start to produce wave interference or other undesirable effects.

The exact opposite is true...a single sub is good, two are better, three are best & 4 are the absolute golden rule. Integration is actually easier with multiple subs. Start buying!!!

TheMARPATNinja7

He's right, four subs placed in each corner of the room, firing toward the listening position is the optimal configuration.

Fongolio

TheMARPATNinja7 wrote: »

He's right, four subs placed in each corner of the room, firing toward the listening position is the optimal configuration.

I have to disagree with this statement. The optimal configuration is totally dependent on room acoustics and size and shape of the room. Simply putting the subs in the corners will absolutely NOT guarantee best sound. Optimal placement is trial and error and measurement. There are many excellent articles written on this subject. Some research is necessary. Also the sweeping statement that you can never have too much bass is is also false if you are seeking a great sounding system. Too much boomy bass will totally overpower and diminish a good system.

comfortablycurt

Fongolio wrote: »

I have to disagree with this statement. The optimal configuration is totally dependent on room acoustics and size and shape of the room. Simply putting the subs in the corners will absolutely NOT guarantee best sound. Optimal placement is trial and error and measurement. There are many excellent articles written on this subject. Some research is necessary. Also the sweeping statement that you can never have too much bass is is also false if you are seeking a great sounding system. Too much boomy bass will totally overpower and diminish a good system.

x2

Individual room acoustics are the most critical factor in setting up a system. Just putting a sub in each corner won't necessarily guarantee the best results. Some rooms dictate that all of the subs be in front, some dictate that there be two in front and two behind the couch, for some rooms one in each corner would be the best setup. It all really depends on the room.

I'm also of the mind that there certainly is such a thing as to much bass. I love good solid bass, but not so much that's overwhelming the other speakers.

nooshinjohn

x3.... I hate having to agree with Curt but oh well...

TheMARPATNinja7

x0....let me rephrase, 4 subs firing at the listening position for optimal sound...

kawizx9r

Heh something I mentioned in another thread. I myself am running 4 subs, towers each have one, my velo and my psw10. God it's overkill for a 14x16' living room, but yea you can never have too much bass. I did find I got better output putting one on top of the other as opposed to one sub in each back corner or one in each front corner, like curt said, its all about the acoustics of your room

oops forgot to add, if ONLY i had a cs1000p center channel...haha another 2 subs

strife1013

Where are you planning on buying the PSW 505? I just boguth one from J&R and love it, I am thinking of getting another one too since they are discount. and I want matching speakers & subs.

Airplay355

Why would 4 subs be optimal? You'd be increasing the chances of canceling certain parts of the signal out by adding more origins of the original signal. You don't need to put a sub behind you, the whole purpose of a sub is that it's frequencies too low determine their direction. I'll take one bad **** sub over 4 wimpy ones any and every day.

You also wouldn't increasing the quality of the drivers/amps you're buying, which doesn't make sense to me either. Quality is clearly an issue and by sticking with more lower quality components instead of less higher quality ones I think you'd be sacrificing a lot. Plus a room full of black boxes is ugly unless you're a teenager trying to impress his friends with how many subs you have.

So, too much bass? Nope, but too many subs? Yup. To each their own I guess.

VR3

Id rather get a sub that would be equivelant of four lesser subs...

IMO

speakergeek

Vr3MxStyler2k3 wrote: »

Id rather get a sub that would be equivelant of four lesser subs...

IMO

Yeah that would be easiest, unless you wanted more bass...

Face

Paper on multiple subs: http://www.harman.com/wp/pdf/multsubs.pdf

VR3

IMO --

The best thing you can do in any setting like a HT where a ton of bass is desired...

Have REAL speakers on all sides -- surrounds, center, mains - all full range to atleast 30-20hz.

Then have a LFE sub or two. When you have 5-7 full range speakers reproducing different signals - alot less chances for cancelations... not to mention is sounds rediculous! lol

okiepolkie

Face wrote: »

Paper on multiple subs: http://www.harman.com/wp/pdf/multsubs.pdf

Floyd Toole, recently retired from Harman, has written a lot on the subject of multiple subs. At the CEDIA expo last fall, I took an advanced home theater design class where he was one of the instructors, along with Anthony Grimani and Rich Green. For the class this fall, I am on the books to be one of the co-instructors for the class. It will be more of learning experience for me as a teacher than it was as a student.

As part of the recommended practices for theater design, at this point, at least 4 subs are recommended to properly equalize the room. When properly calibrated, the 4 subs will create a more balanced low frequency response throughout the room, so you end up with more than one "sweet" spot. For higher gain, the subs would be placed in the corners. For a more balanced presentation, the subs would be placed at the room halves, directly across from the other. In long rooms, 2 additional subs on the sides would be recommended, with the placement being at the 3rd's of the room.

The whole point is to get rid of the nulls, or excessive peaks, in the room.

For the average consumer, 4 high quality subs does not make sense, as many here have implied. The next option would be 2 subs, where one is placed at the front, and one on the side. Or both subs would placed opposite of each other, either at the front/rear, or each side. Again, proper calibration is the key.

shadowofnight

pearsall001 wrote: »

The exact opposite is true...a single sub is good, two are better, three are best & 4 are the absolute golden rule. Integration is actually easier with multiple subs. Start buying!!!

Vr3MxStyler2k3 wrote: »

IMO --

The best thing you can do in any setting like a HT where a ton of bass is desired...

Have REAL speakers on all sides -- surrounds, center, mains - all full range to atleast 30-20hz.

Then have a LFE sub or two. When you have 5-7 full range speakers reproducing different signals - alot less chances for cancelations... not to mention is sounds rediculous! lol

Both very true.....with lots of time spent with sound level meters....test tone cd's and movies ( 2 channel rig in a bedroom for music ) I have finally come up with a setup that I will never touch again.

I went large/multiple on all of the speakers ( Smallest set now are the CRS+'s ).....dropped the crossover setting from the standard 80Hz down to 50Hz....changed out the 3 ported subwoofers to a 4 sealed subwoofer setup with a mid-bass module as well....also sealed.

All subwoofers/mid-bass module actively crossed over/adjustable.....the 4 subs covering from serious output down in the teens( subsonic filter set at 10Hz ) to 30Hz....the mid-bass module bandpassed from 30Hz to 50Hz.


Positioning in the room was critical to eliminate standing waves/cancellations/etc.....after many hours of employing friends and the dolly I had to buy at home depot, my setup ended up with 2 of the subwoofers behind the listening area L/R....one sub behind the L/C/R speakers.....and one stack of the 4th sub and the mid-bass module to the left and back a couple of feet of the L/C/R speakers.

I would have never even guessed at that setup's positioning , but when my measurements said it was the best....and the sweaty friends sitting down watching the Taken Blu Ray moved their lips attempting to say " Holy ****"...I knew it was perfect.

It takes a lot of work, but in the end multiple subs are worth it.....also having that dedicated mid-bass module handling the 30 to 50Hz is amazing...it keeps your subs who are working with excursions you can measure with a tape measure from having to produce those higher frequency cone movements....as a matter of fact before going to triple or quad sub setups I would say implement dual subs and a mid-bass module.


I just went and took these pics showing the strange positioning of the 4th sub/mid-bass stack....the driver pics were taken pre-build. The 2 drivers are a TC Sounds TC-3000 http://web.archive.org/web/20070224172836/www.tcsounds.com/tc3000.htm and an early prototype LMS-5400 http://web.archive.org/web/20070219132635/www.tcsounds.com/lms5400.htm

NapalmV5

^ shadowofnight - bodacious system ^


my 5.1 - 8x subs



happy 4th! :cheers:

bassfann

awesome subs