PSW10 Help, low bass output!!!

dom

Hi everyone, i am getting frustrated with my setup. I just bought a Polk PSW10 last night. I hooked it up to my Yamaha HTR-5650 receiver via the subwoofer output on the receiver. I used a subwoofer cable and a Y-Splitter adaptor and connected it to the back of the PSW10 via the L/R inputs. I checked ALL my settings on my receiver and i still can't get my Bass to hit hard. I have to turn up the volume on the sub to max settings to get it to "punch or kick". I have the corssover on the subwoofer set to 80Hz and then i turned it up to 160Hz and still the same results.

I don't know what i am doing wrong? I had this same issue with my Velodyne VX-10 subwoofer and i ended up running the the front L/R mains through the subwoofer's speaker line in/out on the back of the sub, and set the receiver fronts to large and no sub and then the bass was there. I dont want to run all that extra cabling, i just want one subwoofer cable to the sub and thats it. Grrrr!!!!!!! Any suggestions?

Here's what i tried so far but still no results:
1. Y-Splitter Adaptor
2. Set receiver to Subwoofer:YES
3. Set receiver subwoofer output all the way up to 0db (max setting)
4. Set center/L/R to small or large (not sure if that affects the LFE sub-out signal)

BjornB17

Unforunately the PSW10 is a really really weak subwoofer. I used to have and it didn't sound very powerful.... it's only 50 watts. When i did turn it up it just made a lot of chuffing in the port.

Upstatemax

What's the crossover set to on your receiver?

Is this for music or HT?

My sub (PSW10) does not come on at all when I play music... Only when I watch movies.

Upstatemax

BjornB17 wrote: »

Unforunately the PSW10 is a really really weak subwoofer. I used to have and it didn't sound very powerful.... it's only 50 watts. When i did turn it up it just made a lot of chuffing in the port.

+1

My PSW10 came free with the rest of my Polks... Not a fan of it. Once I am in our new house, a new sub is on top of the list of things to get.

dom

Upstatemax wrote: »

What's the crossover set to on your receiver?

Is this for music or HT?

My sub (PSW10) does not come on at all when I play music... Only when I watch movies.

Hmmm...I believe it is set for HT. I'm not sure if i recall seeing a setting for HT or Music on the receiver. I'll check again. My only issue is that 2 subwoofers have the same problem? This also happened with my other Onkyo receiver. I know the PSW10 can sound better since i have heard it on other people's systems via the LFE subwoofer out from the receiver, and some other people weren't even using high-end receivers. My last resort is going to be to reset my receiver to factory settings and start all over again setting-by-setting. In your guy's opinions, do you think my Velodyne VX-10 is a better sub than the PSW10? Even though i still have both subs, i can't compare them since i haven't heard the PSW10 at its full potential. But if it serves me right in the end, i'll just keep my velodyne and craigslist the PSW10. Maybe i need a subwoofer with an actual dedicated LFE input??? :mad:

kneedragger37

dom wrote: »

Hmmm...I believe it is set for HT. I'm not sure if i recall seeing a setting for HT or Music on the receiver. I'll check again.

There won't be a music or HT setting on your receiver -- Upstatemax just wanted to know if you are using the sub mostly for music or HT -- HT will call for lower frequencies than music (usually) and so the PSW10 will show more of it's disadvantages when using it for HT duty rather than music.

My only issue is that 2 subwoofers have the same problem? This also happened with my other Onkyo receiver. I know the PSW10 can sound better since i have heard it on other people's systems via the LFE subwoofer out from the receiver, and some other people weren't even using high-end receivers. My last resort is going to be to reset my receiver to factory settings and start all over again setting-by-setting. In your guy's opinions, do you think my Velodyne VX-10 is a better sub than the PSW10? Even though i still have both subs, i can't compare them since i haven't heard the PSW10 at its full potential. But if it serves me right in the end, i'll just keep my velodyne and craigslist the PSW10. Maybe i need a subwoofer with an actual dedicated LFE input??? :mad:

To clarify what some others have suggested here, and answer your questions --

1) Can you check your receiver settings to see where the crossover is set for the subwoofer in the receiver itself? If so, post the crossover setting here. Folks just want to make sure your receiver and subwoofer crossovers aren't "cascading."

2) In the meantime, you can set the crossover on the PSW10 as high as it will go (this will be as close as the PSW10 -- or the VX-10, for that matter -- gets to an LFE input). Then set your receiver's subwoofer crossover to 80hz as a baseline. Listen and tweak from there and see if you can find a setting that suits you.

3) I can't say for sure because I haven't heard either one in person, but on paper the VX-10 appears to edge out the PSW10 in both power and frequency response -- I know there's folks on the forum who have listened to both and could say better than I which is superior.

timlitton

Phase issues maybe?

kneedragger37

Ok, did some research...

There are several issues at play here that could be causing your problem --

First, the HTR-5650 does NOT have an adjustable low-pass filter for the sub -- the cut-off is fixed at 90hz. Any time you set the low-pass filter on your PSW10 lower than that could easily cause a cascading crossover effect that makes your sub sound not-so-good.

Second, I couldn't find any info on the slopes of the low-pass filters for the PSW-10 or HTR-5650 -- but even with the settings as good as you can get them, there's the possibility that the sub's slope is steeper than the HTR's, in which case you will still have problems.

Does anyone know what the slopes of the LPF's are on the PSW10 and/or 5650?

kneedragger37

dom wrote: »

I don't know what i am doing wrong? I had this same issue with my Velodyne VX-10 subwoofer and i ended up running the the front L/R mains through the subwoofer's speaker line in/out on the back of the sub, and set the receiver fronts to large and no sub and then the bass was there.

I just re-read the above.... The reason this worked was you eliminated all possible cascading issues by taking a full range signal from your mains and then filtering that signal with ONLY the sub's built in low-pass filter. As soon as you introduce multiple filters, especially ones that are not adjustable, or limited in their adjustability, you introduce some really difficult-to-solve issues.

If your subs' LPF slopes are steeper than your AVR's LPF slope, and from what you're posting I'm beginning to suspect that they are, then given the lack of adjustability in your equipment, your best bet is to do what you described above -- it sounds like your best shot at getting the sound you are looking for with your current equipment. Otherwise, a sub with an unfiltered LFE input (or an AVR with a steeper LPF slope) may be in order...

dom

kneedragger37 wrote: »

If your subs' LPF slopes are steeper than your AVR's LPF slope, and from what you're posting I'm beginning to suspect that they are, then given the lack of adjustability in your equipment, your best bet is to do what you described above -- it sounds like your best shot at getting the sound you are looking for with your current equipment. Otherwise, a sub with an unfiltered LFE input (or an AVR with a steeper LPF slope) may be in order...

kneedragger, Thank you so much for your input. Thanks for checking into my receivers capabilities. I couldn't find anywhere in my receiver's settings to set the crossover frequency for my sub output. I am awaiting Yamaha support's response and I also contacted Velodyne to see if they could chime in.

Velodyne stated that the amp on the back of my VX-10 subwoofer is a filtered LFE input and that i would have to run the speaker line in/out like i previously had it setup.

Does anyone know if the Polk PSW10 is also filtered? i'm beginning to suspect it is since it suffers from the same problem my Velodyne is experiencing.

At this point im not sure which option is cheaper...another used receiver or a another subwoofer with an unfiltered LFE input.

kneedragger37

The PSW10's input is definitely filtered.

If you plan on replacing equipment, the best option is the sub, by far. Both the PSW110 and PSW125 have unfiltered LFE inputs. If you sell your PSW10 and VX-10 you could probably pick up either one and still have some $$ left over.

Getting a new AVR is riskier -- even if the new AVR has an adjustable LPF, it's the LPF slope that will determine whether your VX-10 or PSW10 will work well with it -- if the subs' slopes are steeper than the AVR's, then you're back to the same old problem, even with a new AVR.

If you want to go the AVR route, do your homework, and you probably will have to call the companies who make the AVR's you're looking at, as the specs for the LPF slope are rarely published.

cnh

If I recall correctly the PSW 10 does not have an LFE in only R/L ins so it seems unlikely that you can bypass the internal crossover in the sub itself.

You said you set that to maximum frequency which is correct. You can hook the sub to your Yamaha LFE sub-out (with a y-cable) making sure you have the crossover set at 80 or above. Somehow 0db does not strike me as the Maximum output for sound to the sub on the Yammie.

You should break out your Yamaha manual...it 'definitely' describes where the menus for the sub crossover and output are, as well as how to tell it that there is a sub--which you seem to have done already.

Another caveat. If your main fronts can reach to 40hz you may not hear much of an effect from the PSW10. I have a pair of M70s that can do that and when paired with a 40hz 8" sub...I really can't hear the sub doing anything that adds to what the M70s are putting out on their own?

Don't know if this helps any. But the PSW10 is not a bad sub...and it can play fairly loud in a small to mid-sized room--dynamic power is 100 watts and it easily hits that. It's only short coming is it doesn't reach Low enough for Big LFEs, and as you boost its volume setting you get a lot of port noise! Placement can be very very critical for that.

cnh

dom

kneedragger37 wrote: »

The PSW10's input is definitely filtered.

If you plan on replacing equipment, the best option is the sub, by far. Both the PSW110 and PSW125 have unfiltered LFE inputs. If you sell your PSW10 and VX-10 you could probably pick up either one and still have some $$ left over.

Getting a new AVR is riskier -- even if the new AVR has an adjustable LPF, it's the LPF slope that will determine whether your VX-10 or PSW10 will work well with it -- if the subs' slopes are steeper than the AVR's, then you're back to the same old problem, even with a new AVR.

If you want to go the AVR route, do your homework, and you probably will have to call the companies who make the AVR's you're looking at, as the specs for the LPF slope are rarely published.

You are right. I tried everywhere looking for the LPF slopes when you mentioned it, and found nothing. I will go back to the drawing board and find another sub probably.

cnh wrote: »

If I recall correctly the PSW 10 does not have an LFE in only R/L ins so it seems unlikely that you can bypass the internal crossover in the sub itself.

You said you set that to maximum frequency which is correct. You can hook the sub to your Yamaha LFE sub-out (with a y-cable) making sure you have the crossover set at 80 or above. Somehow 0db does not strike me as the Maximum output for sound to the sub on the Yammie.

You should break out your Yamaha manual...it 'definitely' describes where the menus for the sub crossover and output are, as well as how to tell it that there is a sub--which you seem to have done already.

Another caveat. If your main fronts can reach to 40hz you may not hear much of an effect from the PSW10. I have a pair of M70s that can do that and when paired with a 40hz 8" sub...I really can't hear the sub doing anything that adds to what the M70s are putting out on their own?

Don't know if this helps any. But the PSW10 is not a bad sub...and it can play fairly loud in a small to mid-sized room--dynamic power is 100 watts and it easily hits that. It's only short coming is it doesn't reach Low enough for Big LFEs, and as you boost its volume setting you get a lot of port noise! Placement can be very very critical for that.

cnh

cnh, i'll check the manual again after i do a factory rest on my receiver just to be absolutely sure i don't have a setting configured incorrectly. If that fails then i will be looking for another sub. I am using a Y-cable but to no avail, the sub is still not working properly. I do have a small room, roughly 9ft by 20ft, so either sub could perform good for the room size if working properly. the velodyne is 100watt RMS with 150watt peak, and man does it get going when it works! I'll have to see what the PSW10 can do, although i am not looking for sub 35Hz performance since my apt neighbors might not have a liking to it! I'll check again and let everyone know tonight what i find. thanks for all the suggestions.

Upstatemax

If you are not looking for anything below 35hz I would dump the sub.

Towers can hit that range pretty easy, but I would think they will need more power than your yammy is pushing.

kneedragger37

Dom,

I spoke with a few more people who are pretty learned in the field of AVR's -- it seems that, according to them, even if the slopes of the LPF's on your AVR and sub do NOT intersect, they can still affect one another.

The THX standard adopted by most AVR manufacturers (regardless of whether the specific AVR is THX-certified or not) is 24 db/octave. We know that the VX-10 is 12 db/octave, and there's no reason to think the PSW10 has a slope steeper than 24. And yet, as evidenced by your experience in hooking up the VX-10, the filters seem to be interacting with one another.

I have to agree with upstatemax that if you are only looking for the little bit of low-bass punch the PSW10 would have provided, the easiest and most inexpensive option would be to set your mains to large and let the RTi10's take care of the bass duties -- they're more than capable.

If you're looking for more than that, then the only viable option, in my opinion, is to sell off the PSW10 and VX-10 and use the cash towards a sub with higher output below 35hz and an unfiltered LFE input.

dom

kneedragger37 wrote: »

Dom,

I spoke with a few more people who are pretty learned in the field of AVR's -- it seems that, according to them, even if the slopes of the LPF's on your AVR and sub do NOT intersect, they can still affect one another.

The THX standard adopted by most AVR manufacturers (regardless of whether the specific AVR is THX-certified or not) is 24 db/octave. We know that the VX-10 is 12 db/octave, and there's no reason to think the PSW10 has a slope steeper than 24. And yet, as evidenced by your experience in hooking up the VX-10, the filters seem to be interacting with one another.

I have to agree with upstatemax that if you are only looking for the little bit of low-bass punch the PSW10 would have provided, the easiest and most inexpensive option would be to set your mains to large and let the RTi10's take care of the bass duties -- they're more than capable.

If you're looking for more than that, then the only viable option, in my opinion, is to sell off the PSW10 and VX-10 and use the cash towards a sub with higher output below 35hz and an unfiltered LFE input.

I have yet to receive word from Yamaha support, but Velodyne does indicate that the VX-10 is filtered at the amp. I believe you are correct with the LFE signals interacting from the receiver and the subwoofer amp. At this point I will have to set my R50 mains to large and just dish out the bass from those until I find a deal on a sub with an unfiltered LFE input. It's just not going to be the same feeling a 40-50Hz "thump" from a 10" subwoofer rather than four 6.5" mids.

Upstatemax

http://cgi.ebay.com/PSW-125-Home-Subwoofer-from-Polk-Audio_W0QQitemZ360127694674QQcmdZViewItemQQptZSpeakers_Subwoofers?hash=item360127694674&_trksid=p4634.c0.m14

That should give you everything you are looking for...

kneedragger37

Upstatemax wrote: »

http://cgi.ebay.com/PSW-125-Home-Subwoofer-from-Polk-Audio_W0QQitemZ360127694674QQcmdZViewItemQQptZSpeakers_Subwoofers?hash=item360127694674&_trksid=p4634.c0.m14

That should give you everything you are looking for...

+1 on this....

Sorry dom, I misread and thought you had Rti10's. The R50's will likely struggle under 50hz. The PSW125 max linked to, or even a less expensive PSW110, will give you better bass extension than your R50's at a decent price...

dom

well guys, good news. Yamaha finally got back to me and told me to do a factory reset. They email me the instructions for the reset.

So before I reset my receiver, I popped in my Eagles Hell Freezes Over Tour and Star Wars Episode 2 DVD's and watched in DTS/DD mode and plugged back in my Veldoyne VX-10 subwoofer. I set the crossover at about 120Hz on the sub amp and watched a few songs and few scenes from the DVD's to get a feel if there will be any difference after the reset.

I reset per the instructions and once i powered back on the receiver I began to configure my setup from scratch. No more than 10 minutes later i was back up and runnign again and started the Eagles Tour DVD and WOW, immediately felt about an 8db GAIN! The Bass drum parts of the songs i could feel the punch again! I sat in the same position and kept all volume levels the same, I didn't touch the crossover on the sub amp at all. I popped in the Star Wars Episode 2 DVD and went through the arena scene and it was absolutely louder with the creatures running and the light-saber fight scenes.

Keep in mind i still do believe the speaker-line inputs gave me an even louder output because I can barely turn it up halfway before it starts getting too loud at 80Hz crossover using the speaker line inputs from my Mains. Using the RCA inputs, I have to turn it up about 3/4 volume and set the crossover at 120Hz to get it to compare to the same loudness level. All in all im satisfied and will run my setup this way in the meantime while i look for that used PSW110 or PSW125.

There were some settings in the factory rest menu that i saw interesting and was tempting to mess with, but I was too chicken to mess with anything in the factory rest options. I'll poke around the web and see if i can find what those other options do. One of the options has a 0db reading on it, i cant remember what it was but I was tempted to see if I could increase that number!

Thanks for all the help and suggestions, i'll let you know how my new subwoofer hunting goes once i find a replacement. :cool:

kneedragger37

dom wrote: »

well guys, good news. Yamaha finally got back to me and told me to do a factory reset. They email me the instructions for the reset.

So before I reset my receiver, I popped in my Eagles Hell Freezes Over Tour and Star Wars Episode 2 DVD's and watched in DTS/DD mode and plugged back in my Veldoyne VX-10 subwoofer. I set the crossover at about 120Hz on the sub amp and watched a few songs and few scenes from the DVD's to get a feel if there will be any difference after the reset.

I reset per the instructions and once i powered back on the receiver I began to configure my setup from scratch. No more than 10 minutes later i was back up and runnign again and started the Eagles Tour DVD and WOW, immediately felt about an 8db GAIN! The Bass drum parts of the songs i could feel the punch again! I sat in the same position and kept all volume levels the same, I didn't touch the crossover on the sub amp at all. I popped in the Star Wars Episode 2 DVD and went through the arena scene and it was absolutely louder with the creatures running and the light-saber fight scenes.

Keep in mind i still do believe the speaker-line inputs gave me an even louder output because I can barely turn it up halfway before it starts getting too loud at 80Hz crossover using the speaker line inputs from my Mains. Using the RCA inputs, I have to turn it up about 3/4 volume and set the crossover at 120Hz to get it to compare to the same loudness level. All in all im satisfied and will run my setup this way in the meantime while i look for that used PSW110 or PSW125.

There were some settings in the factory rest menu that i saw interesting and was tempting to mess with, but I was too chicken to mess with anything in the factory rest options. I'll poke around the web and see if i can find what those other options do. One of the options has a 0db reading on it, i cant remember what it was but I was tempted to see if I could increase that number!

Thanks for all the help and suggestions, i'll let you know how my new subwoofer hunting goes once i find a replacement. :cool:

I'm glad to hear you were able to sort out your issue without investing any more $$$! I still can't figure out for the life of me what setting would cause the LPF's to affect one another, but fortunately it seems the reset has righted everything. Have fun and let us know how much better the PSW125 sounds when you get it!

snorkel4u

Hi experts,

Reviving an old thread as I am having similar issues with my setup.

I have a Yamaha V667 which is feeding the Subwoofer from its subwoofer Pre outs.
For fronts I have a pair of RTI10’s but these are not directly connected to the Yamaha.

I realized the RTi10s are power hungry so I took the front pre outs from the Yamaha and fed it to a Emotiva UPA 200 power amp. So the fronts are getting enough beef from power amp.

That leaves the Yamaha to only power the sub and center channel (which I rarely use)

I have turned the freq to max behind the PSW10.
In the receiver settings the crossover is set to 80hz.

My issue is the same as OP. The PSW10 hardly seems working. When I touch the woofer come I can feel mild vibrations. It is working for sure but not to the mark. When I listen to music there is hardly any change. I have to max the SW volume to 80% but that causes it to get muddy.
Is there a way to get punchy bass ?

I have also tried changing the fronts to small versus large and no difference in sound apparently.

The Center channel is precision acoustics.

I wish to play with the settings before considering a reset.

[Deleted User]

Hi,
You'll want to figure out if the problem is the sub or elsewhere. The easiest way to do that is to feed another source, such as a CD/DVD player or even smartphone or laptop into the line level inputs and see if the sub makes any bass.

rooftop59

snorkel4u wrote: »

Hi experts,

Reviving an old thread as I am having similar issues with my setup.

I have a Yamaha V667 which is feeding the Subwoofer from its subwoofer Pre outs.
For fronts I have a pair of RTI10’s but these are not directly connected to the Yamaha.

I realized the RTi10s are power hungry so I took the front pre outs from the Yamaha and fed it to a Emotiva UPA 200 power amp. So the fronts are getting enough beef from power amp.

That leaves the Yamaha to only power the sub and center channel (which I rarely use)

I have turned the freq to max behind the PSW10.
In the receiver settings the crossover is set to 80hz.

My issue is the same as OP. The PSW10 hardly seems working. When I touch the woofer come I can feel mild vibrations. It is working for sure but not to the mark. When I listen to music there is hardly any change. I have to max the SW volume to 80% but that causes it to get muddy.
Is there a way to get punchy bass ?

I have also tried changing the fronts to small versus large and no difference in sound apparently.

The Center channel is precision acoustics.

I wish to play with the settings before considering a reset.

The PSW10 is not a true subwoofer: it barely puts out any volume below 40hz. Your RTi10s properly powered as you have them, should go just as low and put out more bass than the PSW. I would suggest either using no sub or getting a better one...

snorkel4u

Thanks for the inputs. I did some testing with various file formats etc to ensure the sub works and it does. on DTS movies it really rattles (moves back and forth a lot). But like rooftop mentioned, if I play FLACs at moderate volume, for any genre of music, its as if the sub just isn't present.

I got a lot of flac (no pun intended) for buying the RTI10s and was suggested to prepare myself to part with them sooner than later. So far haven't decided to sell them.

What I noticed is that the RTi10s play fuller and richer at louder volumes. At lower volumes it just has mids and highs. Barely any lows. Don't like increasing the bass from the receiver.

I emailed Polk for best positioning and they confirmed it needs to be in the form of an equilateral triangle between the couch and the two speakers. Right now they are up against the wall.

Still trying to find ways to get the best sound from these 10s.

Looking at getting a 200 watt sub as well.

Thanks

rooftop59

snorkel4u wrote: »

Thanks for the inputs. I did some testing with various file formats etc to ensure the sub works and it does. on DTS movies it really rattles (moves back and forth a lot). But like rooftop mentioned, if I play FLACs at moderate volume, for any genre of music, its as if the sub just isn't present.

I got a lot of flac (no pun intended) for buying the RTI10s and was suggested to prepare myself to part with them sooner than later. So far haven't decided to sell them.

What I noticed is that the RTi10s play fuller and richer at louder volumes. At lower volumes it just has mids and highs. Barely any lows. Don't like increasing the bass from the receiver.

I emailed Polk for best positioning and they confirmed it needs to be in the form of an equilateral triangle between the couch and the two speakers. Right now they are up against the wall.

Still trying to find ways to get the best sound from these 10s.

Looking at getting a 200 watt sub as well.

Thanks

Even though there is a lot more sub bass in more recent blu ray and 4K action and sci fi tracks, the majority is still in the 40-60hz range. That’s why it moves for musics but not for music if it’s crossed over really low.