Dolby PLIIX V.S. THX Ultra2 Cinema

wingnut4772

For what it's worth I am digging the THX over the PLIIX. I find that it has a more sophisticated surround envelope. It doesn't call attention to itself and balances out the surrounds nicely. Every time I switched back to PLIIX it seemed more dynamic but I had a sense of ' that effect is in that surround. this effect is coming from the other etc...'

The THX Ultra 2 Cinema just gives me a nice, pleasing immersive experience. Mama likes.:D


Anyone else?

TheMARPATNinja7

What are you using this for, music I'm assuming?

wingnut4772

Sacre Bleu!!! No. Movies.

Music is stereo plain and simple.

kuntasensei

I can't stand what THX does to the surround steering. Yes, it gives a kind of generalized immersion... but it doesn't place sounds with the precision that DPL-IIx does. I get what you're saying about the differences though. That's why THX is easier to integrate, because you can be a little looser with placement, equalization and level.

DPL-IIx takes a little more work to integrate for best results. One thing that really helped solidify my rear soundstage with DPL-IIx was tweaking the distance/delay settings using DVE's between-speaker tones. You can bump distance up and down and hear the speakers go in and out of phase, making it easier to find the best setting. Sometimes physical distance isn't necessarily the same as the best distance for acoustics.

It's really just personal preference though. But for me, the precise placement of DPL-IIx works really well with games on the Xbox 360 and adds a more directional experience to movies. THX, in my opinion, makes my 7.1 system sound like it did when I only had 5.1, so I don't use it.

TheMARPATNinja7

wingnut4772 wrote: »

Sacre Bleu!!! No. Movies.

Music is stereo plain and simple.

Is THX actual Digital 5.1 surround or is it modified 5.1 like PL?

And I use PLIIX for music and it really adds a nice effect. The sound is clearer than using a 5 or 7ch stereo. You still get 95% of the music in the front three speakers but the other 5% is actually pretty cool. I like having those highs racing around my head.

TomBergamini

I hear no difference between them

wingnut4772

Maybe it's because I have to have my surrounds on stands and can't wall mount them in my current house. PLIIX might sound less localized If I had wall reflection to play with my bipoles. As far as placement and calibration I am not new to this rodeo and they are not too bad.;)

TheMARPATNinja7

Believe me give PL a shot, I have Prologic and "Panorma Mode." This boosts some of the highs in the surround speakers and I couldn't be more happier with the sound.

wingnut4772

i have tried both and the THX just sounds more realistic in my room.

Lowell_M

Are you all watching VHS or something? Why do you need processed surround sound rather than just DTS or Dolby Digital surround?

SlowcarIX

is there a difference between Multich and THX cinema?

Lowell_M

I still don't get it. Why use any processing? Dolby digital and DTS are already 6 discrete channels. Why screw with it?

metal83

a_mattison wrote: »

I still don't get it. Why use any processing? Dolby digital and DTS are already 6 discrete channels. Why screw with it?

I only use PLII when watching something on Directv that doesn't support DD (it will just kick to PLII automatically for me if DD isn't supported). Other than that, my receiver basically always says DD. Unless of course i'm watching a blu-ray movie, then i'll use which ever HD format the disc offers.

Marty913

a_mattison wrote: »

I still don't get it. Why use any processing? Dolby digital and DTS are already 6 discrete channels. Why screw with it?

Direct TV and/or cable channels as mentioned are not all DD plus there are some older movies on DVD that were not originally remastered into DD from the VHS versions. Most have been reissued now but if you still have the original version, you still have Dolby Surround (or worse).

To answer the original question, I prefer the PL II Movie mode versus the THX but it's a close call. Music of course is 2-channel except for rare occasions (parties, working around the house) when 5-channel stero is OK.

wingnut4772

Isn't DD just 5.1? I use PLIIX to get the back two channels going.

I read something today that said that Ultra2 was layered over PLIIX. IS that true? It doesn't seem so. I think THX Cinema is and I have been experimenting with that also.

Marty913

wingnut4772 wrote: »

Isn't DD just 5.1? I use PLIIX to get the back two channels going.

I read something today that said that Ultra2 was layered over PLIIX. IS that true? It doesn't seem so. I think THX Cinema is and I have been experimenting with that also.

Yep, I have got to spend more time thinking about these questions before I answer. THX Ultra2 is the 7.1 extension of THX Ultra (5.1). If I remember correctly there was even a room size intention or spec. Something about Lucas wanting the original THX spec to sound more theater-like in rooms of 2000 cubic feet (Ultra) and the extended it to rooms over 3000 cubic feet (Ultra2). Something like that.

Dolby Digital is 5.1, not 7.1. DD EX would be 7.1

Lowell_M

OH... I only have 5.1 which is why I've never paid attention to this subject. Thanks.

Marty913

It has occurred to me though that secretly they are all the same. Since THX of any kind is really a "certification" of compliance and Dolby PLII is the actual algorithm, is Ultra2 really a certification for a layered over PLII (EX). It's all Lucas the "certifier" and Dolby the "creator" so wouldn't one have to be based on the other?

Is it possible that this is all a huge plot by decal manufacturers?

cnjvh

THX as noted above is not a surround processing device, it is a certification standard. Engaging THX mode sets your amp to all the settings recommended by THX (speakers at small, xover at 80, cinemaEQ engaged, etc).

Surround decoding and steering are handled by the pre-pro's DTS and DD functions.

DD can be anything from 2.0 to 7.1. It is an encoding scheme that is not based on the number of channels.

Marty913

Probably not the definitive technical answer but a pretty good breakdown nonetheless.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surround_sound

Personally, I'm waiting for Quadraphonic (the Sansui implementation) to come back.

kuntasensei

cnjvh wrote: »

THX as noted above is not a surround processing device, it is a certification standard. Engaging THX mode sets your amp to all the settings recommended by THX (speakers at small, xover at 80, cinemaEQ engaged, etc).

Nice explanation, but you're misunderstanding the terms here. There's THX Certification (i.e. Ultra and Select)... then there are THX listening modes (which use THX's Advanced Speaker Array technology to alter the content of the surround channels to attempt to recreate the differing studio environments). These modes are called THX Cinema (either Ultra Cinema or Select Cinema, depending on the unit's certification), THX Games, and THX Music. Each is designed to artificially recreate the mixing environments for each of those types of content.

Yes, you're correct that choosing a THX listening mode usually sets the receiver or pre-pro to THX standard settings. However, the THX ASA modes ARE surround processing. In fact, they can be overlaid with DPL-IIx steering in some receivers and pre-pros, giving you the surround steering of DPL-IIx with the ambience and adaptive decorrelation of THX listening modes.

That's part of the reason I don't like the THX modes. They actually alter the content of the surround channels slightly. Most receivers that I've heard tend to lend a more tinny echo sound when using THX modes, and it really stands out to me. DPL-IIx, on the other hand, is simply a steering method, and doesn't attempt to create sound that isn't already there. It merely says "that sound is 50% left surround, 50% right surround, so let's place it in the rear surrounds", etc.

lakesailor

I am not a fan of PLIIX either. Fortunately if you are using an H/K product you can use Logic 7 instead. Logic 7 is one of the reasons why I still use H/K in my rec.room system. Developed by Lexicon; Logic 7 is night and day above PLIIX

kuntasensei

I like Logic 7 a lot. However, it suffers from some of the same problems that DTS:Neo6 has, where there's some sharpness added to the surrounds that makes them sound kind of tinny with highs and with a very slight artificial echo. It's not nearly as bad as DTS:Neo6 though, and it is a bit more forgiving of proper setup than DPL-IIx is.

I'd say Logic 7 and DPL-IIx are a toss-up for me. Both are superior to THX modes though, because they're not monkeying with the original content - just steering the sound based on the phase relationships and levels between channels.

But y'know... all this crap is personal preference no matter what. Stick with what you like.

rdb2001

Ok if you are using Dolby PLIIX or THX Ultra2 Cinema while watching your blu- rays, are you truly hearing the dolby truehd or dts master codecs. I am curious and wanted to know because the same question was asked to me and I couldnt answer it. Thanks

cnjvh

kuntasensei wrote: »

Nice explanation, but you're misunderstanding the terms here. There's THX Certification (i.e. Ultra and Select)... then there are THX listening modes (which use THX's Advanced Speaker Array technology to alter the content of the surround channels to attempt to recreate the differing studio environments)...

Thanks for the added info...didn't know that part.

Marty913

rdb2001 wrote: »

Ok if you are using Dolby PLIIX or THX Ultra2 Cinema while watching your blu- rays, are you truly hearing the dolby truehd or dts master codecs. I am curious and wanted to know because the same question was asked to me and I couldnt answer it. Thanks

Can't answer it for absolute/positive but it would seem that if you are altering the steering and/or content mix then you would not be listening to the TrueHD or DTS Master steering and or content mix. Don't know how you could "re-author" something electronically and still have it be the same as the original.

reeltrouble1

wingnut4772 wrote: »

Sacre Bleu!!! No. Movies.

Music is stereo plain and simple.

Cut to final scene.......................


after battling the forces of surround sound music our heroine stands over the limp body of the five eared devil lying on the ground, knife in hand she pulls it from the hilt as the body gives one last kick body and says...................That takes care of That, now somebody get me a Cheesburger...........

Cut to Credits.......................

RT1

lakesailor

kuntasensei wrote: »

I like Logic 7 a lot. However, it suffers from some of the same problems that DTS:Neo6 has, where there's some sharpness added to the surrounds that makes them sound kind of tinny with highs and with a very slight artificial echo. It's not nearly as bad as DTS:Neo6 though, and it is a bit more forgiving of proper setup than DPL-IIx is.

I'd say Logic 7 and DPL-IIx are a toss-up for me. Both are superior to THX modes though, because they're not monkeying with the original content - just steering the sound based on the phase relationships and levels between channels.

But y'know... all this crap is personal preference no matter what. Stick with what you like.

You are correct; on some signals I have noticed that as well. Mostly I prefer the front end of Logic 7 and that is likely why I have not noticed the issue with the rears (but you are right; it is there) Mostly what I dislike about PLIIX is the lack of front end performance. It is very blah in my books.

kuntasensei

lakesailor wrote: »

You are correct; on some signals I have noticed that as well. Mostly I prefer the front end of Logic 7 and that is likely why I have not noticed the issue with the rears (but you are right; it is there) Mostly what I dislike about PLIIX is the lack of front end performance. It is very blah in my books.

I don't like the default front sound in DPL-IIx Music, because I don't like the way the center channel works with music (though some of that is due to my center placement). Have you tried bumping Center Width to 4 or 5? That is what made mine really snap together, since I already had good stereo imaging from my mains.

If you were talking about with 5.1/6.1 material, DPL-IIx doesn't change the front soundstage.