SQ Steps

arun1963

Can someone pls shed some light on 'managing reflections'? How to identify reflection points and how to deaden these points?

With the tweeters I guess its fairly simple. Since these frequencies are highly linear. It would be the first obstruction if you drew a straight line from the tweeters centre. How about the mids where the frequencies are not so linear?

How much of an improvrmnt would I get on the imaging?

tks.

cadenceclipse

amp and box 1st. just my 2 cents. 360 probably roks but i think its the RF thing that tells me to hold off also the 800 thing..what amp u using 4 highs i 4get?

MacLeod

arun1963 wrote: »

Can someone pls shed some light on 'managing reflections'? How to identify reflection points and how to deaden these points?

With the tweeters I guess its fairly simple. Since these frequencies are highly linear. It would be the first obstruction if you drew a straight line from the tweeters centre. How about the mids where the frequencies are not so linear?

How much of an improvrmnt would I get on the imaging?

tks.

One word - FOAM! And lots of it.

A good 2-4" piece of foam will absorb most frequencies so run down to Hobby Lobby and buy you a few sheets then play around with placement. Im not suggesting you drive around with foam all inside your car, but you can find out different things and problem areas that you can fix later by some other accoustical treatments or speaker placement/aiming.

arun1963

tks mac.

Got some foam and first covered the obvious straight line obstructions in the path of the tweeters.

Followed the same for the mids. Based on the assumption that the frequencies from the mids not being as linear, would spread in an arc across the surafce of the mid. Hence covered stuff like the door handles which have a metal trim and parts of the centre pillars near ear height. Glass is something I cant do anything about.

Will take some phone cam pics tmrw and post, if you'll promise not to laugh.....:o lol.

There are like 12-14 bits of blue foam stuck all over the interior. What does it do to the sound?

1. The frequencies 800hz and above are much cleaner. Hence imaging is more precise. I can control these frequencies better.

2. Earlier, I had really pulled back on the 3.5-20 khz range. I had to bump up selectively. That really opened up the highs to a new level.

3. The mids and highs blend a lot better now.

I think I need to use a baffle to toe in the mids a bit, only problem is that there is only a 1 cm clearance between my door panel and the rubber surround of the momo mid.

arun1963

amp and box 1st. just my 2 cents. 360 probably roks but i think its the RF thing that tells me to hold off also the 800 thing..what amp u using 4 highs i 4get?

Thats the way I'm leaning too. Does RF have reliabilty issues?
polk pa500.4 driving the momo comps.

MacLeod

Tha foam simply absorbs the sound so it doesnt bounc around and cancell out other frequencies. I wouldnt coat the entire car with the stuff cause thatll make it harder to trace down problem areas. Just try it in like one general area and see if that helps. If it doesnt really do anything then move on. If it does help then figure out a way to dampen that area. Maybe line it with some carpet or something.

cadenceclipse

any1 try or use dynazorb. dunno if that might help man..(guess its not same thing but maybe that might help some areas

arun1963

MacLeod wrote: »

Tha foam simply absorbs the sound so it doesnt bounc around and cancell out other frequencies. I wouldnt coat the entire car with the stuff cause thatll make it harder to trace down problem areas. Just try it in like one general area and see if that helps. If it doesnt really do anything then move on. If it does help then figure out a way to dampen that area. Maybe line it with some carpet or something.

saw yr post mon morn. First reaction was... how did you know? With that answered (becoz u've been there, done that). The second was, what a coincidence vis a vis the timing of yr post.

Sun eve I was demo'ing the upgraded sound to the missus who in anycase thinks I'm nuts. Her words....."you spent a ton of money on the system and ure telling me $0.05 worth of foam is bringing it to life? You are nuts." She proceeded to pull one of the bits off to show me it made no difference. The one she pulled actually made no diff....:D . That got me wondering how many of the 12-14 bits I had on were actually working and how many were just placebos. I now have about 6-7 bits left.

With an extended listening session, your mind starts playing tricks with your ears or is it the other way round? lol

arun1963

cadenceclipse wrote: »

any1 try or use dynazorb. dunno if that might help man..(guess its not same thing but maybe that might help some areas

Dynaxorb is frightfully expensive and it is basically used to line the inside of ported sub boxes. Its like a thick rubbermat with grooves in a diamond shaped pattern.

MacLeod

arun1963 wrote: »

With an extended listening session, your mind starts playing tricks with your ears or is it the other way round? lol

Youre mind can definitely lie to you especially during extended listening.

Ive sat in my car for hours tuning before and think Ive got something pretty special. Go to bed, go back to the car the next day and wonder what the hell I was thinking.

Thats why once you think youve found something good, live with it for a day or two to make certain before you make any permanent arrangements.

arun1963

spot on.

I try and tune in 1/2 an hour slots. So I'll work for about half an hour then walk away from the car and take a 10 mts break. If I'm struggling with something and I walk away, often when I come back I instantly know whats wrong.

Sometimes you discover things by sheer accident. As posted earlier, with the subs in the sealed box I was getting lesser bass. With the ported box the ideal position was with the sub driver facing and firing towards the back ie towards the boot lid. With the sealed encl I had the sub firing towards the cabin.

Today while driving to work, I noticed that the bass level had gone up quite a bit. It was deep, punchy, clear and focused. Exactly what I wanted. The eq / ta settings were however unchanged over the last 4-5 days. But now there was great bass. Couldn't figure it out. At work when I opened the boot to take out my laptop, guess what I saw? The sub was facing downwards. I must have braked hard and the box toppled over onto my laptop bag.......

Upside : I have finally figured out the way to get great bass
Downside : I need to figure out how to do a stable install with the sub firing downwards. It also means that the sub is too heavy for the box and there is a stability iissue

Why must each + have a - attached to it? Cause thats life

cadenceclipse

haha that was hilarious thank u arun i'd say what u finally figured out was that your box basically flipped three(3) sides(facing rear, up, cabin, down) if u say it flipped while braking, and what u need to figure out is how to keep it from doing any more backflips. so your going ported facing cabin?

arun1963

The local polk dealer called me today. Over the last 12 months I have bought the following equipment from him

1. mmc 6500 - 1pair - $ 350
2. pa 500.4 - 1 unit - $ 450
3. mm 2124 - 1 unit - $ 180
4. pa 400.1 - 1 unit - $ 260
5. mmc 691 - $ 260

That is nearly $ 1,500 in purchases. He knows I want to upgrade the momo's to sr's. So today he callled me and offered me a pair of reconditioned sr 6500's for usd 260. Normal selling price here is close to $900. The mids had burnt vc's. The set was refurbished at Polks china factory and now have a 6 month warranty. The problem is I dont trust this guy. He is the one who sold me the pa 400.1 to drive the mm2124. His install quality was crap and I dont trust him. However he is the authorised dealer for polk here. Why does'nt polk screen the appointed dealers?

I'm tempted by the deal but my instinct tells me to stay away. I would rather wait till I can put down the $ 900 for a new set. Just looking for your comments.

arun1963

Thank god its vacction time. Time to unplug from work (difficult as I get call all the time) and connect with the kids.......very easy to do. Its also time to audition 3 set of speakers as an upgrade to the momo's.

A bit on the existing setup:

HU: Pioneer p80rs--->active
4ch pa500.4---->bi amping mmc6500's
Pa400.1---->MM2124 sub
stinge rca's and kicker 12gg and 0gg speaker cables.

I know the sub setup is undercooked, but I am first upgrading the spekers.

I am looking at speakers in the $900-1200 range local prices. The shortlisted comps are:

1. Polk sr6500--->$925
2. Dynaudio Esotec 242----> $1,200
3. Morel Elates

---

>$ 1100
4. Genesis Absolute 2.2

---

> $ 1050

I will get to audition these speakers for 48 hrs each except the sr's. If you have used these speakers or if you have heard them I wold really appreciate your opinions. Strengths weakness etc. At the end of the day its my ears but since I'm upgrading with serious cash and for the mid-long term............some amt of help reqd..:)

I only play original cd's no mp3 or fm. I listen to a lot of classic rock so an active fast paced and dynamic mid would be critical. A smooth mellow and airy tweet would be great. If I were to go with the dyns or the morels I would prob need to upgrade my amp. Both the dyns and morels are power hungry.

arun1963

Guys, Pls I really need some inputs.

Going to get the genesis comps installed today. The morels would be next (fri) and the dyn last (sun).

I really dont want to screw this up.

arun1963

CP forum search reveals, sr's over morel, dyn over sr's......

MacLeod

1. Polk sr6500--->$925
2. Dynaudio Esotec 242----> $1,200
3. Morel Elates

---

>$ 1100
4. Genesis Absolute 2.2

---

> $ 1050

The Morel Elates are just superb speakers. They would be my first pick for speakers if money were no object.

Id take the SR's over anything else on that list tho.

The Genesis arent bad but I thought the few sets Ive heard were a little on the bright side. Couldve been the tuning tho.

Im not a huge Dyn fan. Yes they are very good but they always sounded a little "artificial" to me.

arun1963

Tks mac.

I can't wait till tmrw when I get to audition and test the morels for 2 days.

I just finished 2 days with the genesis. Very good speakers. It took me 3-4 hours after these were installed to be able to listen to them objectively. The first 3-4 hours I was just blown away by the sheer jump in sq over the momo's. I just did'nt comprehend the sq jump that I would get for 4x the momo price.

Verdict : Very good all round speakers. Fast and dynamic mid and airy tweet, but mac is right they are a bit on the bright side. They sounded the best xover at 4khz. Anything lower and they got too bright to handle with my limited eq ability at the hu.

To be fair I dont have anything to compare them with. It will be interesting to see how they stand against the morels and the dyns.

Its a shame that I wont be able to audition the sr's.