Are Medical Bills from a Parallel Universe?

soiset

I'm sleepy most of the time. I'm quite fit, and I eat well, but I drag **** all day, every day, and have done so for maybe 20 years. So, after a lot of delay in doing so, I went to a "Sleep Medicine Doctor."

The lobby had nice photos that he'd taken ALL around the world.

I go into his office, and I can tell he's working from a strict pattern - it must be sleep apnea, let's get you tested.

So I go in for my scheduled sleepy-time at a facility located in a strip center. It was a **** night, what with some **** in another sleeping room running her television loudly until all hours, on top of the wires and tubes I'm supposed to sleep with.

The one technician running the place, who MAY have had a high school diploma, wakes me up at 5:15 am and sends me home, where I go back to bed.

Turns out, I demonstrate mild OSA, obstructive sleep apnea, with 13 "events" per hour. For some reason, though, those events manifest as typical "severe" sleep apnea in terms of their effects on my deep sleep.

So, per the usual course, the doc lines me up for the second part of the study, which is the "CPAP titration." This is where they hook you up to a breathing mask that provides pressurized air to see what the minimum pressure is that will hold the airway open. Of course, this is on the assumption that you'd even be willing to use one of those goddamned flight masks every night for the rest of your life.

But before I go in for that part, I get the bill for the first study. The 'negotiated' fee with my insurance (Blue Cross) is $2866!! Well, I got laid off in November, so my wife and I raised our insurance deductible to save money - to $2000. That, and my 20% copay leave me on the hook for $2170.

Now, in what universe is it justifiable to charge $2866 for what little I received? I would have thought $500-$800 would have been a "premium" fee that you have to pay just because it involves health care, but almost $2900?

You'd think I was served Dom Perignon and Beluga Caviar all night by professional models in their underwear (I wasn't).

I'm a professional engineer - tons of education, experience, extremely difficult licensing exams and procedures, and shitloads of liability. It takes WEEKS of hard work for me to make $2900.

I can get my pickup truck sanded down to the metal, painted in metallic, and double clear-coated for $2900.

I could buy an entire Polk Lsi 7 channel system for $2900, new!

You get the idea. But the royal aristocracy of health care apparently bill from a parallel universe, where nothing is reasonable. I seriously doubt their outlay - my miniscule pro-rated share of the property taxes at the facility, wages and benefits of that half-brained employee, goo to stick electrodes to me, electricity for that **** and her TV, insurance for the fat chance that something would go horribly wrong while I lay there not going to sleep, EVERYTHING, could have added up to more than a few hundred dollars.

So, granted $300 (generously) expenses, triple that to cover billing admin and a nice, fat profit, and make it $900.

So where does the extra TWO GRAND come from? A parallel universe, I guess.

Are we put on this earth to provide for our masters in the health care industry?

danger boy

that seems awfully high to me too. but health care has had to raise their rates to make up for those people who don't have a health care plan. sad but true.

raising your deductable didn't help of course.. you know that already. I feel for ya, i really do.

I have been going through my own health care system costs since the first of the year.. I have yet to receive any bills for my hospital care and follow ups.. but i'm sure they're coming.

Maybe think about lowering your deductible again to a lower amount. I think 2k is high. I'm single so mine is at $500.

good luck.

P.S. I hear the aparatus you might need is pricey too. Hope you don't need to shell out for that too. :eek:

NotaSuv

Sadly it seems they charge whatever they please..........I had a 25 minute procedure on one hip, 2 1/2 inch cuts total bill including follow up visits for 6 months they sent to the insurance company was over $25,000.....well i did get a dvd on the operation too

bruss

dont get me started... I was treated for hodgkins lymphoma this year.. i pulled all my medical bills off my insurance site and the total bill was 98 grand.. my insurance adjusted it to 40 grand.. i thank god i had decent coverage and was able to beat it without going bankrupt..

bobman1235

NotaSuv wrote: »

Sadly it seems they charge whatever they please..........

The medical profession in general is not out to screw anyone. Costs are astronomical, for a variety of reasons (as someone mentioned, covering uninsured people is a big one, as is lawsuits, as is the price of equipment and phramacology, etc etc). But blaming your doctor for "charging whatever they please" is just ignorant.


Now, that said, it doesn't make the prices any less unbearable, especially with such a high deductible. I feel for you soiset, that's rough.

comfortablycurt

You think that's bad? About two years ago...my appendix ruptured, and I had to go to the emergency room, and get it removed. I'm self employed, so I don't have health insurance.

The total bill came to roughly 23,000 dollars. I didn't qualify for financial aid or anything...no insurance.. Yeah...I'm still paying for that one. I probably will be for the next 30 years or so...

This country really needs to enact some kind of national health care plan. Especially when you look at how many other countries do have national health plans. In many other countries, the idea of having to pay for your medical care is laughable.

obieone

I feel for the OP, and all those that don't/ can't afford health ins. BUT, before anyone goes spouting the benefits of socialized HC, they might want to look @ the #'s.

Canada's population: 33,000,000
France pop.: 61,000,000
U.S. pop.: 300,000,000

One country is 10%, the other is 20% the size of ours. And, despite all the 'wisdom' of Michael Moore, there are reports that it's NOT all that hot.
If you want OUR gov., you know the one that OVERSPENT for Katrina relief by $1,000,000,000+ to run this program, then you should go rent 'Born on the 4th of July'

BeRad

comfortablycurt wrote: »

In many other countries, the idea of having to pay for your medical care is laughable.

... and thank god for that. I read stories of medical bills from the states and it makes me re-appreciate Canada's health care system (which I used to take for granted). On the flipide I also read a lot of Canadians bashing our health care system ranting on how it needs to be better. I guess nothing will ever be perfect, or even good enough with some people.

Back to OP: That is an outrageous price to pay for what you received. Especially if it was clear that the people working at the sleep clinic were 'Joe Shmo's' and not Dr.'s, and since you weren't given any real medicine. I'd be curious to know what the same thing would cost over on this side of the Border. Is there any chance of negotiating the price down a bit?

shack

A night in the hospital is $3,000 minimum regardless of why your are there. The machine they hooked you up to isn't cheap. Of course part of the cost you pay is to pay for those that don't pay a penny...and there are a lot of them.

HOWEVER....

If you have sleep apnea...the money spent is the best investment you have ever made. Yes I sleep with one of those masks...EVERY NIGHT...and it is worth it's weight in gold. Not only will it allow you to get a good nights sleep...it will add years to your life...if not in fact save your life. Be glad you have access to the technology and the ability solve your medical issue. Some of those countries where people never pay for medical care have no access to it.

MillerLiteScott

Somebody has to buy Porsches. :mad:

george daniel

Does the "charge" for the sleep study include the physican's interpretation fee,,or is it seperate billed? Sleep studies are known as the "cash cow" in many areas. Good luck,and wear that mask.:)

shack

george daniel wrote:

Sleep studies are known as the "cash cow" in many areas.

Of course the other being MRIs. There is a reason some of those run 24/7.

george daniel wrote:

Good luck,and wear that mask.:)

Again, it is the best thing I have done for my health in many years. Do it!

Pablo

My wife did the sleep thing and I thought it was a joke. The cost was rediculus, and he was telling us we will probably need stuff before the test even began! They said the mask would be covered by insurance, but then they sent us a bill!?!?

I have the same **** draging issue, but I have learned to live with it for now. I've been to a few doctors, but to no avail. I'm told I have lyme (have you checked into that?), so maybe that is it. But at the moment there is no cure for those ills.

One thing I have to ask is did they ask you about your lifestyle? How much do you exercise? What is your diet? Are you over weight? I happened to notice during my wife's visit is that they didn't ask any of that. She snores a ton, but they never said "sleep on your side" (it helps). I even noticed that the doctor we talked to didn't have anything on the wall (everything on the wall was for a different doctor?!?!). and this was supposed to be the leading sleep clinic in connecticut.

Sorry, I started to rant. Time to press "post quick reply".

george daniel

I don't know what these institutions charge you for a mask and circuit(tubing) for home CPAP devices,,maybe someone will chime in(I know what they cost),and I'm sure it's like Rx's though=huge mark up. In the hospital/sleep lab setting, the tubing costs 6 dollars,and the cost of the mask is 23-40 dollars depending on brand/style.

Hobbyguy

I appreciate some of you people defending my profession. I am an orthopaedic surgeon. This country does have a medical crisis but the rising cost is not from us doctors. The average salary of the average orthopaedic surgeon is less than half of what it used to be 20 YEARS AGO. So where is this rising cost coming from? Many people do not realize that insurance companies do not reimburse us what we charge. It is amazing to me when a patient says to me wow your bill was $3000 (hmmm to save your hand I guess I thought it was a bargain, many people consider its value to be in the millions for a law suit), yet they never pay attention to how much the insurance company actually reimburses me. I usually get between 0% - 50% of my bill from insurance companies. Didn't anybody notice the record profits from insurance companies the past decade?
Medical technology has also gotten way out of hand - metal implants, bioimplants, robotics, lasers, anything medically related is marked up the way hammers were marked up to the government. When I repair a torn tendon in the shoulder we use metal anchors. These small implants often cost more than what I bill for the entire operation and aftercare(I am certain the cost of the material is less than a quarter).
Hospital billing (which most are now in the hands of businessmen...once businessmen got control, charges have gotten out of hand) has reached record levels and they are able to leverage better deals with insurance companies due to the large volume of patients served. I don't know what your liability is but I have to part with $50,000 every year for malpractice....some have to pay as much as $250,000.
In my opinion selfish, ruthless, and uncaring businessmen (pharmaceutical, insurance, hospitals...etc) are ruining this country. My brother in law was a civil engineer. He was hired by businessmen, and he helped design many wonderful large scale projects like hydroelectric generators. The businessmen made multimillions. They paid their engineers $40,000.
Ask yourself how was medical service 20 years ago when doctors were being paid more than any of the businessmen.
Having said that I do my best every day to give the best possible care to my patients.
Richard

george daniel

Good point Richard,, you're right about the "businessman" approach and control of hospitals/medicine. What it boils down to, someone has to pay for the uninsured,so rates go up,to offset the cost of the uninsured.A basic no frills CT scanner is a million bucks,, factor in equipments,supplies,labor,and 35-40% uninsured population,, you gotta make it up somewhere(ins,private pay,etc).and it is not getting any better,,, now throw in some for profit healthcare,,,large corps,,administrative salaries,,,and you've got a system that is out of control.Just my .02 worth.

Pablo

I posted already on this, but I will put in my last 2 cents (this type of thread can go on forever, and that's all I have left after my last insurance payment).

There are still a ton of Drs out there that do it for the love of doing it. But I think many have been thrown into the mundane job of just going to work. I ain’t be not Dr (or english professor at that), but it seems that medicine has become just another job. Between insurance companies and bio-tech companies, it's all about profit. Not to mention the amount of money wasted on admin costs for your average hospital (I read 1/2 of the cost of a hospital stay goes to pushing paper). Now Drs just don't seem to want to get all that evolved. It seems to me that they would rather throw some sort of pill at you than actually give you advise on what to do. With all the money thrown at "public service" types of jobs, I am a believer that there should be some sort of regulations on what the money they make. Right now there is a commercial on tv about an anti-depressant medication. Why the hell are they trying to convince you that you need more medication? Isn't that for the Dr to decide? Bio tech firms spend half their budget on advertising. Why? All that does is increase the cost of the meds as well as convince people they need more meds (not to mention the increased insurance costs). I would love to find a Dr that really just wants to help me instead of just giving me something that they hope just may help me.

But I really don't want to give Drs a hard time (it's more of an example than anything else). My brother is a neurosurgeon and I know he's just doing it for the love of it (he spent half his college life in a cabin in Fairbanks AK without running water, and just bought his first TV a few years back). It's the whole "public service" sector that sometimes gets to me. How many millions does my city spend on moronic state employees that can't give me a straight answer on when my auto taxes are due ("what day are my taxes due", "june", "there are 30 days in june, which day", "june"). And I have to pay for this idiots pension for the rest of her (our) lives!

Sorry for the rant.

mrbigbluelight

Hobbyguy wrote: »

Didn't anybody notice the record profits from insurance companies the past decade?
Medical technology has also gotten way out of hand - metal implants, bioimplants, robotics, lasers, anything medically related is marked up the way hammers were marked up to the government.
Hospital billing (which most are now in the hands of businessmen...once businessmen got control, charges have gotten out of hand) has reached record levels and they are able to leverage better deals with insurance companies due to the large volume of patients served.

In my opinion selfish, ruthless, and uncaring businessmen (pharmaceutical, insurance, hospitals...etc) are ruining this country.

Having said that I do my best every day to give the best possible care to my patients.
Richard

Anthropologists can tell us many things about an ancient society by the bones they uncover.
If they find bones of a member, for instance, that were mishappen to the degree that the member could be considered a "cripple", yet that member managed to live into their teens, we're told that the society was succesful.
That society took the time, energy, and resources to care for a member that wasn't a "contributing" member when the most expedient thing would have been to allow that member to die.

Today's society isn't as sophisticated as those ancient societies.
Today's society is more concerned with "Return on Investment".


More and more Americans have found themselves in the category of "Unemployed" in the past several months.
IMO, many more will join those ranks in the next months.
Many, many more.

As the ranks of the newest members of the "Out of Work" club swell, perhaps the mantra of "My health insurance premiums are so high because I have to pay for 'those people' who don't have health insurance" will become quieter and quieter.

When "you" find yourself now in the category of "them", things will change.

Call it socialism. Labels are unimportant.
Call it communism. Labels are unimportant.
Call it satanism. Labels are unimportant.

Things will change because they HAVE to change.

Unlike the recent past, this revolution WILL be televised and I, for one, look forward to it.

cnh

To get back to sleep apnea tests. I had one done myself. A similar experience...after a few hours they woke me up and sent me home--the technician indicated that I didn't have ANY episodes but that I would have to wait for the Doctor's report--which said I was clean.

Nonetheless the bill was about 2500 or more as I remember it. The first time I asked for the test I was denied, at the last minute because my insurance company didn't want to pay for it...claimed I didn't fit the profile. A year later I tried again and it went through.

Why these tests are so expensive is beyond me. And it's a crime that they raised your deductible to 2 grand? Man!

I guess what I'm saying is that price is the going rate for whatever reasons. Should it be? No!

As for our Doctor above. I agree malpractice is a problem. But I'm an educator and I teach pre-meds, 50 percent of whom I would 'never' admit into Medical School because they are not entering the profession for the right reasons but for what they think is the "money", prestige and security? These individuals along with the excessive number of Lawyers in this country are part of 'our' problem. There are a lot of BAD Doctor's out there. Who could care less about their patients. Then there is the Drug industry and WORST of all the Health Insurance Industry...put it all together and you have a Hydra that sprouts a new head everytime someone gets a medical bill!

We do NOT have the best Health care in the world? We have the MOST EXPENSIVE care!

cnh

cnh

Shizelbs

bobman1235 wrote: »

The medical profession in general is not out to screw anyone. Costs are astronomical, for a variety of reasons (as someone mentioned, covering uninsured people is a big one, as is lawsuits, as is the price of equipment and phramacology, etc etc). But blaming your doctor for "charging whatever they please" is just ignorant.


Now, that said, it doesn't make the prices any less unbearable, especially with such a high deductible. I feel for you soiset, that's rough.

I agree. To the OP, I know its a lot of money, but that does seem pretty reasonable.

SKsolutions

The Revolution : HCR-6, New Hampshire goes Ninja. Bill text.

All medical bills come with Enron accounting at no additional charge.

bobman1235

Ah, HCR-6. One of my favorite pieces of legislation ever. I do love this state.

soiset

shack wrote: »

A night in the hospital is $3,000 minimum regardless of why your are there. The machine they hooked you up to isn't cheap. Of course part of the cost you pay is to pay for those that don't pay a penny...and there are a lot of them.

HOWEVER....

If you have sleep apnea...the money spent is the best investment you have ever made. Yes I sleep with one of those masks...EVERY NIGHT...and it is worth it's weight in gold. Not only will it allow you to get a good nights sleep...it will add years to your life...if not in fact save your life. Be glad you have access to the technology and the ability solve your medical issue. Some of those countries where people never pay for medical care have no access to it.

Thing is - I wasn't even in a hospital. They have these sleep centers, run by private corps that contract with medical centers (or something like that) in many places around town.

Regarding the CPAP: I'm hoping and guessing that because, physiologically, my case is mild, that it can be treated with alternates to the CPAP, of which there are a good many. But you are right - I'm certain that solving this problem will be a huge improvement to my life.

shack

soiset wrote:

Regarding the CPAP: I'm hoping and guessing that because, physiologically, my case is mild, that it can be treated with alternates to the CPAP, of which there are a good many. But you are right - I'm certain that solving this problem will be a huge improvement to my life.

Don't waste your time. The alternatives rarely work...at least to the level of the CPAP. The CPAP may be uncomfortable at first, but you get used to it and the benefits far outweigh the cons IMO.

soiset

Pablo wrote: »

My wife did the sleep thing and I thought it was a joke. The cost was rediculus, and he was telling us we will probably need stuff before the test even began! They said the mask would be covered by insurance, but then they sent us a bill!?!?

I have the same **** draging issue, but I have learned to live with it for now. I've been to a few doctors, but to no avail. I'm told I have lyme (have you checked into that?), so maybe that is it. But at the moment there is no cure for those ills.

One thing I have to ask is did they ask you about your lifestyle? How much do you exercise? What is your diet? Are you over weight? I happened to notice during my wife's visit is that they didn't ask any of that. She snores a ton, but they never said "sleep on your side" (it helps). I even noticed that the doctor we talked to didn't have anything on the wall (everything on the wall was for a different doctor?!?!). and this was supposed to be the leading sleep clinic in connecticut.

Sorry, I started to rant. Time to press "post quick reply".

I don't think it could be Lyme disease, as I've never been through stage one of that (I think I would have noticed).

My blood screens reveal no deficiencies. I'm not overweight, but I have a high BMI (5'9", 200 lbs) because I'm very muscular. But I don't have a lineman's neck, though, which is supposed to contribute to apnea. The one thing in my lifestyle that contributes to the apnea is booze before bedtime, which is a CNS depressant, thus causing the throat muscles to relax excessively (people snore more after drinking, you know).

I would make an aside comment regarding weight, though. My bodyfat has crept up some, but I am so sleepy that separate exercise (I often get quite a bit of exercise doing tree work, which is my side line) is REALLY unappealing. Sleep apnea and obesity are a kind of chicken-egg problem, and I think the combination causes a lot of the stereotype that fat people are lazy (and I'm admittedly a fat-bigot). I KNOW that I'm not lazy, but if you saw me napping in the middle of the day you might think I was.

soiset

Hobbyguy wrote: »

I appreciate some of you people defending my profession. I am an orthopaedic surgeon. This country does have a medical crisis but the rising cost is not from us doctors. The average salary of the average orthopaedic surgeon is less than half of what it used to be 20 YEARS AGO. So where is this rising cost coming from? Many people do not realize that insurance companies do not reimburse us what we charge. It is amazing to me when a patient says to me wow your bill was $3000 (hmmm to save your hand I guess I thought it was a bargain, many people consider its value to be in the millions for a law suit), yet they never pay attention to how much the insurance company actually reimburses me. I usually get between 0% - 50% of my bill from insurance companies. Didn't anybody notice the record profits from insurance companies the past decade?
Medical technology has also gotten way out of hand - metal implants, bioimplants, robotics, lasers, anything medically related is marked up the way hammers were marked up to the government. When I repair a torn tendon in the shoulder we use metal anchors. These small implants often cost more than what I bill for the entire operation and aftercare(I am certain the cost of the material is less than a quarter).
Hospital billing (which most are now in the hands of businessmen...once businessmen got control, charges have gotten out of hand) has reached record levels and they are able to leverage better deals with insurance companies due to the large volume of patients served. I don't know what your liability is but I have to part with $50,000 every year for malpractice....some have to pay as much as $250,000.
In my opinion selfish, ruthless, and uncaring businessmen (pharmaceutical, insurance, hospitals...etc) are ruining this country. My brother in law was a civil engineer. He was hired by businessmen, and he helped design many wonderful large scale projects like hydroelectric generators. The businessmen made multimillions. They paid their engineers $40,000.
Ask yourself how was medical service 20 years ago when doctors were being paid more than any of the businessmen.
Having said that I do my best every day to give the best possible care to my patients.
Richard

I have no doubt that there are a lot of people with their hands out when it comes to billing, and that some of them are getting a lot of money for moving paper from one side of their desk to the other. I am currently trying to get the bill reduced (although everyone keeps saying I need to talk to someone else - I've come full circle on that) and I've learned that the sleep center I went to (Total Sleep Diagnostics) charges $1500 to folks that come off the street for a sleep study ($1500 for each of two tests). I called around to other sleep centers, and that is by at least 50% the highest I found.

So you KNOW that they have a reduced contracted fee with Arlington Medical Center for their studies, probably about $1200. But what does the bill to my insurance company show? $4810! That then gets brought down to what is "allowed" by BCBS to $2866. Since the interpretation is done by the sleep center, ALL that the Arlington Med Center is doing is re-routing the bill. Somehow, that is worth $1666.

Regarding your brother in law - I too am a civil/structural engineer. I know of very few engineers (not counting upper management) that are sole breadwinners. They have spouse/partners that make about as much, and combined, they have enough to live on. Physicians aren't the only ones getting paid half as much as they used to.

But we are a much wealthier country than we used to be, when an engineer was head of a Leave it to Beaver family, with plenty of money. Where has the wealth gone? I agree with your assessment - businessmen and superfluous admin have jammed their hands into the works and are pulling all the cash out they can, and they produce nothing but more paperwork to justify their sense of privilege.

Ditto for lawyers. They too have figured out how to ride on the backs of those who actually produce.

soiset

Shizelbs wrote: »

I agree. To the OP, I know its a lot of money, but that does seem pretty reasonable.

"Reasonable" in what context? In the context of medical billing? Maybe, but that's my point: it's not reasonable in any other context, but it doesn't have to be, because they operate in a parallel universe.

I stayed for 7 hours in a small room in a strip center on a mediocre bed. I was prepped and monitored (along with others) by someone making less than $20/hour (guess). I had reusable wires stuck to me with some non-reusable goop. I had a tube placed under my nose, and straps around my chest and abdomen. A wall-mounted infrared camera was on me. A clip was put on my finger - this was a blood oximeter, totally reusable, and they cost about $50 online.

They recorded my heart rate, breathing, physical movement, blood O2, and brainwaves. All way old-tech stuff, with no expensive equipment. Then someone looked at my printout for maybe 20 minutes, and summarized.

Now, compare that to the work and investment and expense required to, say, properly and completely repaint my full size pickup (assuming you've at least seen bodyshop work) which takes two weeks, and costs about the same.

Different universe.

shack

Don't blame just the so called "business men". Yes some of them make more than one might think is reasonable...but no more so than athletes, musicians, movie stars, etc...

Several years ago the concept of maximizing returns became the mantra of business. Why? Because of ALL OF US. We started investing in mutual funds and 401Ks and so forth. And our primary rational for picking whatever investment was not typically based on soundness, safety, long term viabilty of the companies whose stock the MFs invested in. It was the RATE OF RETURN...how much was I going to make. Once that became the criteria, all businesses began to be managed to make the most profit, not just for the managers, but to staify the institutional investors. I believe we are in the situation we are today because companies (banks and investment firms included) were not allowed to make sound business decisions based on the long term viability of the company. Their decisions were based on how to make the next quarter's profit/growth "expectations". If you didn't meet those expectaions, the "businessmen" were rewarded with the significant drop in the value of the stock of their company. When the stock value fell enough, the management was replaced. It didn't matter that they were expected to grow revenues 15% when the economy was growing at 3-4%. Once you worked out the inefficiencies, cut costs, stole as much business as possible from your competetors...there was only one more avenue for meeting expectations...TAKE MORE RISKS. And they did ...and they (and we) are paying the price today. And yes...ANYONE/EVERYONE who purchased a mutual fund or investment because of the rate of return is part of the problem.

I agree there are lots of excesses and some made too much money...but again to just blame the so called businessmen is very narrow sighted and just plain wrong. We all have a hand in this.

soiset

shack wrote: »

Don't waste your time. The alternatives rarely work...at least to the level of the CPAP. The CPAP may be uncomfortable at first, but you get used to it and the benefits far outweigh the cons IMO.

But I just bought a didgeridoo!

shack

soiset wrote:

Now, compare that to the work and investment and expense required to, say, properly and completely repaint my full size pickup (assuming you've at least seen bodyshop work) which takes two weeks, and costs about the same.

Different universe.

Thank God it is a different universe. I certainly don't want someone with the training of an auto mechanic or paint and body technician being the person who has my physical well being in their hands. NO offense to the people that do those things, because there is definitely skill and training involved. But there is no comparison. You can get the skills necessary to be a pretty good painter in a few courses at the local tech school. Even a RN reqires 4 years of nursing school and serious testing and accredidation to do the job. That medical doctor who spent 20 minutes looking and diagnosing your chart spent 4 years in undergraduate school, 4 years in medical school, 2-4 years as an intern and possibly more to specialize in the particular specialty. Even though it was not a hospital, the clinic goes through extensive and expensive acredidation and license proceedures just to open and stay open. As stated earlier insurance is out the roof. Those pieces of equipment no matter how old must meet stringent requirments and maintenace schedules. The tolerances for any piece of medical gear are much stricter than spray paint equipment.

If the painter screws up the paint job it can be fixed. Mess up a sleep study and it really can cost a life. Sleep apnea if not diagnosed properly can kill a person.

Again, I'm glad my medical care is part of a different universe than my auto mechanic. My health means a whole lot more to me than my car.

bobman1235

mrbigbluelight wrote: »

Anthropologists can tell us many things about an ancient society by the bones they uncover.
If they find bones of a member, for instance, that were mishappen to the degree that the member could be considered a "cripple", yet that member managed to live into their teens, we're told that the society was succesful.
That society took the time, energy, and resources to care for a member that wasn't a "contributing" member when the most expedient thing would have been to allow that member to die.

Today's society isn't as sophisticated as those ancient societies.
Today's society is more concerned with "Return on Investment".

I don't want to drag this too far off the rail, but are you absolutely crazy? This society does more to support the weak and crippled than any in recorded history. THe life expectancy of someone who is in any way physically or mentally disadvantaged is higher than it has ever been, thanks to our admittedly flawed system. And while it isn't explicit through taxes as with someplace like Canada, our healthcare system IS socialized. The "haves" pay for the medicine and care of the "have nots." While soiset is complaining about his medical bills, he (or she?) is obviously a person of means - he has a computer and internet and is on a forum that discusses, essentially, high-end audio. He's obviously going through a rough patch, as are many, but compared to the downtrodden he's still probably doing pretty well. Someone who is poor who goes to the hospital with nothing but the shirt on their back does receive care, insurance or not, and those who paid before him are hte ones footing the bill. Could this be better streamlined? Sure. Could the level of care be better equalized? Probably, but to what end? Hospitals are overcrowded and understaffed as it is, and population is just growing without bounds at this point. And I"ll tell you this, if the revolution comes it's not coming in your favor. When times get tough, people are naturally going to focus more on helping themselves. It's a sad truth, but it is the truth; you are going to look at putting food on your table first and foremost.