Can I do better for LESS??? (tube questions)

obieone
obieone Posts: 5,077
edited February 2009 in Speakers
I was down in Charleston today, and had the opportunity to listen to some Deftech BP7006, 7002's. I've heard them before, about a month ago, but for some reason, this time they didn't sound all too hot:rolleyes:
So I was like "What happened?, why do they sound so CHEAP?"
That's when I discovered they were being fed from a $300 Denon avr:eek:
After I switched them over to a Pioneer SC-05, ($1,800) they sounded MUCH better:o

So, this raises the question: Since I'm not all about the bells and whistles of a top-shelf avr, can I get the same sound quality from something like a Nad C372, or a............tubed Intergrated? Cayin, or Fatman, or....??????

Tubes peaked my curiousity because of the Freq. response I saw of 10hz+

Recommendations are greatly appreciated.
I refuse to argue with idiots, because people can't tell the DIFFERENCE!
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  • obieone
    obieone Posts: 5,077
    edited February 2009
    Bump. C'mon, NO tube people have viewed this????
    I refuse to argue with idiots, because people can't tell the DIFFERENCE!
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  • treitz3
    treitz3 Posts: 19,259
    edited February 2009
    I dunno, never heard a tubed AVR.....being a two-channel guy and all......

    Does that help?
    ~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~
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  • obieone
    obieone Posts: 5,077
    edited February 2009
    Doh! No, I wasn't talking about a tubed avr, I'm talking about a tubed OR s/s Integrated amp. for 2 ch.. I'm thinking about the Nad C372 or ??? and I was just looking for feedback, inputs.
    All I care about is stereo SQ- as far as range, fullness, etc.
    Is there any mid-fi, hi-fi shops up in Charlotte? There's only 2 independent places in Columbia, and the selection is LIMITED!
    I refuse to argue with idiots, because people can't tell the DIFFERENCE!
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  • george daniel
    george daniel Posts: 12,096
    edited February 2009
    The Manley Stingray,,,Rogue Cronus, VTL IT-85,,all very good tubed int.,,is that what you're asking for/about?
    JC approves....he told me so. (F-1 nut)
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  • shack
    shack Posts: 11,154
    edited February 2009
    A NAD C372 is a great piece of 2 channel gear. I have used a similar amp to drive my SDA 1Cs. I have heard the C372 with some Martin Logan Vantages, LSi15 and LSi9s and in each application the pairing sounded very good. I will have to say I am a big fan of NAD gear...but I am for a reason. They make good gear. Their amps typically provide more high current power than their specs indicate. I like the sound and they have never given me any trouble. You could do a lot worse than the C372.
    "Just because you’re offended doesn’t mean you’re right." - Ricky Gervais

    "For those who believe, no proof is necessary. For those who don't believe, no proof is possible." - Stuart Chase

    "Consistency requires you to be as ignorant today as you were a year ago." - Bernard Berenson
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  • hearingimpared
    hearingimpared Posts: 21,136
    edited February 2009
    The Manley Stingray is a beautiful sounding integrated.
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  • obieone
    obieone Posts: 5,077
    edited February 2009
    Thanks for the feedback, and sorry for not posting in '2 channel'. The questions I had re: tubes, are:
    1. the ones I've seen don't have treble/bass controls, so are they completely neutral, or are the tinged w/bass?
    2. I read somewhere that analog watt's are 3x db of digital, or did I misinterpret what I read? The meaning being that's why most analog I/A's are/ have smaller watt ratings?
    I refuse to argue with idiots, because people can't tell the DIFFERENCE!
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  • Face
    Face Posts: 14,340
    edited February 2009
    They're pretty cool to stare at also. :D

    Stingray.jpg
    "He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche
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  • george daniel
    george daniel Posts: 12,096
    edited February 2009
    The stingrays in the dark are absolutely hypnotic,almost surrealistic.

    You will not need any "tone" controls, or should I say,should not need any tone controls, I gave mine up years ago.
    JC approves....he told me so. (F-1 nut)
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  • shack
    shack Posts: 11,154
    edited February 2009
    What's a tone control?
    "Just because you’re offended doesn’t mean you’re right." - Ricky Gervais

    "For those who believe, no proof is necessary. For those who don't believe, no proof is possible." - Stuart Chase

    "Consistency requires you to be as ignorant today as you were a year ago." - Bernard Berenson
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  • Poee7R
    Poee7R Posts: 904
    edited February 2009
    obieone wrote: »
    Thanks for the feedback, and sorry for not posting in '2 channel'. The questions I had re: tubes, are:
    1. the ones I've seen don't have treble/bass controls, so are they completely neutral, or are the tinged w/bass?
    2. I read somewhere that analog watt's are 3x db of digital, or did I misinterpret what I read? The meaning being that's why most analog I/A's are/ have smaller watt ratings?


    Sorry I'm about to run out to dinner so my answers may be a bit short.

    First, with a tube you can "tune" music to your likes. Think of tube rolling like bass and treble control (i know its a stretch),but different tubes have different sonic attributes. You can find a few older units and possibly some current stuff with tone controls also. But my advice would be to look for a piece without.

    Once you get behind some tubes youll hear how they can supplement the sound naturally without any extra's.

    Second, the reason tube watts seem stronger than SS is the way they handle distortion. Tubes handle distortion very well, as in it sounds good. Where as SS distorts and you hear the amp break up, clip etc. Not saying one is better than the other, as I prefer a tube/SS combo with tubes on the front end.

    There are a ton of great companys out that make awesome tube based equipment, Id say everyone owes it to themselves to own some in their time.


    Dave
    Once again we meet at last.
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  • Face
    Face Posts: 14,340
    edited February 2009
    shack wrote: »
    What's a tone control?
    They're also known as interconnects, speaker cables, power cables, room treatments, etc... :D

    Edit: You can even throw resistors and capacitors in the mix.
    "He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche
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  • hearingimpared
    hearingimpared Posts: 21,136
    edited February 2009
    ^^^ What he said ^^^
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  • shack
    shack Posts: 11,154
    edited February 2009
    Too bad you missed out on Ted's Stingray just last fall. It was a great buy at $1,200.

    New a Stingray will run you about $2,250. Similar tube integrateds are the Jolida JD-707A at $1,200, Cayin Audio A-50T Integrated Amp $1,395, Rogue Audio Cronus Tube Integrated Amp $1,795....Then you start getting into real money....

    Tubes are nice...but the cost of entry is higher than similar SS IMO.

    But of course...as Big Ted would say....

    tubesrule2.gif

    When you are ready for tubes...go for it...Until then I think the NAD C372 will provide more bang for the buck.
    "Just because you’re offended doesn’t mean you’re right." - Ricky Gervais

    "For those who believe, no proof is necessary. For those who don't believe, no proof is possible." - Stuart Chase

    "Consistency requires you to be as ignorant today as you were a year ago." - Bernard Berenson
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  • markmarc
    markmarc Posts: 2,309
    edited February 2009
    If you need to save $$, go for the Onix SP3 Int. tube amp. They're designed by Melody and can be had on the used market for between $4-500. Power is 38wpc, but I can testify that they have no problem driving very difficult, power-hungry speakers.
    Review Site_ (((AudioPursuit)))
    Founder/Publisher Affordable$$Audio 2006-13.
    Former Staff Member TONEAudio
    2 Ch. System
    Amplifiers: Parasound Halo P6 pre, Vista Audio i34, Peachtree amp500, Adcom GFP-565 GFA-535ii, 545ii, 555ii
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  • obieone
    obieone Posts: 5,077
    edited February 2009
    WARNING: My adjectives are gonna suck!

    I was listening to some vid's on 'youtube', and even though it was digitized, SOMETHING came thru in the music, that I can only describe as.......3D!!! :confused::eek: Hey, you were warned:D

    I'm gonna have to make a road trip to Charlotte, Eastern GA(Augusta) and listen to them in person.
    I refuse to argue with idiots, because people can't tell the DIFFERENCE!
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  • reeltrouble1
    reeltrouble1 Posts: 9,312
    edited February 2009
    1. Quit watching youtube its bad for your eyes and apparently in your case your hearing.

    2. Dodd ELP--get one

    3. NAD power amp--find one

    4. Jolida or similar source--buy one

    5. Conjucate verbs 1/2 hour everyday.

    6. Done

    Tubes Rule--The Manley is a great option for integrated.

    RT1
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  • madcaps1980
    madcaps1980 Posts: 9
    edited February 2009
    shack wrote: »
    Too bad you missed out on Ted's Stingray just last fall. It was a great buy at $1,200.

    New a Stingray will run you about $2,250. Similar tube integrateds are the Jolida JD-707A at $1,200, Cayin Audio A-50T Integrated Amp $1,395, Rogue Audio Cronus Tube Integrated Amp $1,795....Then you start getting into real money....

    Tubes are nice...but the cost of entry is higher than similar SS IMO.

    But of course...as Big Ted would say....

    tubesrule2.gif

    When you are ready for tubes...go for it...Until then I think the NAD C372 will provide more bang for the buck.

    Sorry I don't mean to hijack but if your interested in a Manley Stingray I have a rare stainless steel/gold front plate that I need to get rid of. Pm me if interested.

    Here are some pics:
    DSC01653.jpg

    DSC01651.jpg
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  • shack
    shack Posts: 11,154
    edited February 2009
    There are rules for selling on the forum. You just broke them. Once the moderaters are aware of this post they will remove it.
    "Just because you’re offended doesn’t mean you’re right." - Ricky Gervais

    "For those who believe, no proof is necessary. For those who don't believe, no proof is possible." - Stuart Chase

    "Consistency requires you to be as ignorant today as you were a year ago." - Bernard Berenson
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  • madcaps1980
    madcaps1980 Posts: 9
    edited February 2009
    shack wrote: »
    There are rules for selling on the forum. You just broke them. Once the moderaters are aware of this post they will remove it.
    Oops my bad.. I figured I was giving him the opportunity to buy a Stingray if that is what he was looking for. Moderators remove if necessary.
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  • organ
    organ Posts: 4,969
    edited February 2009
    Tubes are better IMO, BUT it depends on what you're trying to drive. If you have power hungry speakers, you're better off with a tube pre amp and ss amp.
    One thing to keep in mind with tubes. It seems that the lower you go in wattage, the better the sound.
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  • Hawkeye
    Hawkeye Posts: 1,313
    edited February 2009
    My old pre, McIntosh C2200 is a tube pre with tone and balance control. The only issue I had with it was the tone was not adjustable with remote. The C2300 fixed that.

    Gordon
    2 Channel -
    Martin Logan Spire, 2 JL Audio F112 subs
    McIntosh C1000 Controller with Tube pre amp, 2 MC501 amplifiers, MD1K Transport & DAC, MR-88 Tuner
    WireWorld Eclipse 6.0 speaker wire and jumpers, Eclipse 5^2 Squared Balanced IC's. Silver Eclipse PCs (5)
    Symposium Rollerblocks 2+ (16)Black Diamond Racing Mk 3 pits (8)
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