Bass performance and Polk RTA12a speakers
So, I really like the pair of Polk RTA12a speakers that I purchased used a few months back. The things I especially like are the clarity and smoothness in the highs and mids, the soundstage, and the overall "presence" of the speakers. That being said, my only gripe is that I wish the RTA12a's had a bit more kick and clarity in the bottom end when I play my funk, hip-hop, and heavy rock records. I've tried comparing the Polks to speakers more known for their bass like Cerwin Vegas, but as much as I want to add more bass, I cannot bring myself to sacrifice the mids, highs, and presence of the Polks that the Cerwin Vegas are really lacking in comparison (at least to my ears).
There is a local audio repair guy that I explained my dilemma to, and he was trying to convince me to replace the passive radiators in the RTA12a's with an actual 12" woofer. He's been in the business for three decades and works on vintage gear a lot, and he says he has done that precise modification of RTA12's a number of times in the past. He's also very opinionated and off-putting--the kind of guy that when you tell him one thing isn't working well, he demands that he be allowed to revamp the entire unit with his own special modifications because he knows what "sounds best"--so I'm not sure whether to trust his opinion or not.
Anyhow, the reason I started this thread was to see what folks here thought of my local repair guy's idea of modifying the RTA12a's by replacing the passive radiators with a 12" woofer. And if you think that is a crap idea, are there any other recommendations that you would have for improving the RTA12a's bass performance? Add a sub instead? Modify them in a different way? Right now, I'm driving them with a Crown DC300a amp, which is known for its bass performance, so I'm assuming that I'm getting as much bass out of the Polks as I'm going to get as they are right now. But perhaps I'm wrong. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance!
There is a local audio repair guy that I explained my dilemma to, and he was trying to convince me to replace the passive radiators in the RTA12a's with an actual 12" woofer. He's been in the business for three decades and works on vintage gear a lot, and he says he has done that precise modification of RTA12's a number of times in the past. He's also very opinionated and off-putting--the kind of guy that when you tell him one thing isn't working well, he demands that he be allowed to revamp the entire unit with his own special modifications because he knows what "sounds best"--so I'm not sure whether to trust his opinion or not.
Anyhow, the reason I started this thread was to see what folks here thought of my local repair guy's idea of modifying the RTA12a's by replacing the passive radiators with a 12" woofer. And if you think that is a crap idea, are there any other recommendations that you would have for improving the RTA12a's bass performance? Add a sub instead? Modify them in a different way? Right now, I'm driving them with a Crown DC300a amp, which is known for its bass performance, so I'm assuming that I'm getting as much bass out of the Polks as I'm going to get as they are right now. But perhaps I'm wrong. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance!
Post edited by steelglam on
Comments
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Just a suggestion from a relative audio noob, but maybe a better use of your budget would be for a good subwoofer or even two?
If you are seriously looking for some low end *slam* - a subwoofer is the right tool for the job!
Erik
H9: If you don't trust what you are hearing, then maybe you need to be less invested in a hobby which all the pleasure comes from listening to music. -
I agree w/Erik.
& I'd also ask what kind of amp you're using to power the RTA12's. I had some RTA12C's & when I went from a 50 wpc NAD integrated amp to a 200 wpc Adcom, whoa nellie, the bass deepened, tightened & had way more punch.
Good luck"Wish I didn't know now what I didn't know then." Bob Seger -
BottomFeeder wrote: »I agree w/Erik.
& I'd also ask what kind of amp you're using to power the RTA12's. I had some RTA12C's & when I went from a 50 wpc NAD integrated amp to a 200 wpc Adcom, whoa nellie, the bass deepened, tightened & had way more punch.
Good luck
Thanks for the replies Erik and BottomFeeder. Yeah, getting a sub might be the way to go. Do you think the tech guy's suggestion to replace the passive radiators with a woofer is bogus?
As for the amp I'm using, I noted in my first message that I'm powering them with a Crown DC300a (200 wpc), which is known for its bass performance. -
Thanks for the replies Erik and BottomFeeder. Yeah, getting a sub might be the way to go. Do you think the tech guy's suggestion to replace the passive radiators with a woofer is bogus?
As for the amp I'm using, I noted in my first message that I'm powering them with a Crown DC300a (200 wpc), which is known for its bass performance.
It isn't necessarily bogus - just suspect because you'd be tampering with a packaged design.
Maybe he's done this exact speaker before - with good results, but if this is just a "Monster Garage" proposition you may end up with a horrible mismatch that only results in boomy muddy bass.
For more peace of mind - leave the nice RTiA12's alone and instead research and get yourself a really nice sub or two!
Maybe two Epik Conquests!!
Now you're talking some serious *slam*
H9: If you don't trust what you are hearing, then maybe you need to be less invested in a hobby which all the pleasure comes from listening to music. -
First, find a new repair guy.
Second, check to make sure everything is wired correctly, everything is in phase, etc...
Then check to make sure all the seals are tight. Are all screws snug? When you (gently) press on the passive radiator, do the rest of the woofers push out and stay out for a few seconds?
Also, placement is very important. Try them in a few various spots in your room. Closer to the walls, etc...
Lastly, a crossover update wouldn't hurt. Capacitor values tend to drift after 10-20 years."He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche -
Thanks, Face. Here's a response to some of your comments:Check to make sure everything is wired correctly, everything is in phase, etc...
Did that originally. It's all wired correctly.Then check to make sure all the seals are tight. Are all screws snug?
Just tightened them all.When you (gently) press on the passive radiator, do the rest of the woofers push out and stay out for a few seconds?
Not sure exactly what you mean by this. I pressed on the radiator with my finger, both mids pushed out at the same rate and distance. When I removed my finger from the radiator, the mids returned to the position they were in quickly at the same rate and distance. Did I do this correctly in order to see if they perform correctly? When you say that they are supposed to stay out for a few seconds, do you mean that once I remove my finger from the radiator, they should stay out for a few seconds and then return to their original position? If so, that did not happen. They returned promptly.Also, placement is very important. Try them in a few various spots in your room. Closer to the walls, etc...
Yeah, I've been planning on playing around with placement. I'll definitely do so.Lastly, a crossover update wouldn't hurt. Capacitor values tend to drift after 10-20 years.
Is this an easy and relatively cheap fix? I'm an admitted novice with this stuff, although I am learning. I assume it's something I should have a tech (a new one!) do?? -
Push in the passive radiator and hold it down. The mid/woofers should come out, and stay out for a few seconds, and start moving back in really slowly. If they move back in quickly, it means you've got some airleaks, which would definitely be detracting from your bass output.
Speaker placement also makes a huge difference. Placing it even a couple inches closer to the back wall will increase your bass output noticeably. I'd play around with that some.
If all else fails...I'd go with a sub. It sounds like you're looking for a ton of low end slam...a sub is the way to go. Those speakers were designed for usage as a passive radiator system. I'd imagine that removing them and replacing them with active woofers would degrade the sound quality fairly significantly.The nirvana inducer-
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OK. I did what comfortablycurt said, and the mids/woofers acted as they should. I held the passive radiators down, and the mids/woofers pushed out, stayed put for a few seconds, and then started moving really slowly back to their original position. So, it seems that everything is in there tight.
If speaker placement doesn't work, does anyone have any recommendations for a decent sub that: A. Will match well with the Polks; B. Can be had on a tight budget, i.e. less than $200 used (craigslist, ebay, pawn shops, etc.); and C. Will sound good with heavy rock (glam, punk, hard rock), funk/soul, and hip-hop/electronic music?
My tastes are wide ranging--in addition to the above-noted genres, I like jazz and folk. Hence, since I don't have a lot of money, I'm trying to make sure the speakers that I'm working with are versatile. And I have to say right off the bat that the Polks are some of the most versatile ones I've heard, as they seem to be able to handle all of the above styles pretty well. Which is why I like them so much. I'd just like a bit more "oomph" in the low end for the more rockin/groovin music that I listen to. I'm not looking for purely boomy bass, but rather I'm wanting something more along the lines of being able to "feel" those wicked funk basslines and the tight kick drum in a hard rock song. So I'm trying to figure out the best way to do that and still keep the mids, highs, soundstaging, and general presence that the Polks provide. To put it another way, given the diversity of music that I like, I think it's remarkable that the Polks have gotten me about 80-90% of the way toward getting the sound I want, so I'm just trying to figure out the best way to come close to filling in that remaining 10-20%. -
OK. I did what comfortablycurt said, and the mids/woofers acted as they should. I held the passive radiators down, and the mids/woofers pushed out, stayed put for a few seconds, and then started moving really slowly back to their original position. So, it seems that everything is in there tight.
If speaker placement doesn't work, does anyone have any recommendations for a decent sub that: A. Will match well with the Polks; B. Can be had on a tight budget, i.e. less than $200 used (craigslist, ebay, pawn shops, etc.); and C. Will sound good with heavy rock (glam, punk, hard rock), funk/soul, and hip-hop/electronic music?
My tastes are wide ranging--in addition to the above-noted genres, I like jazz and folk. Hence, since I don't have a lot of money, I'm trying to make sure the speakers that I'm working with are versatile. And I have to say right off the bat that the Polks are some of the most versatile ones I've heard, as they seem to be able to handle all of the above styles pretty well. Which is why I like them so much. I'd just like a bit more "oomph" in the low end for the more rockin/groovin music that I listen to. I'm not looking for purely boomy bass, but rather I'm wanting something more along the lines of being able to "feel" those wicked funk basslines and the tight kick drum in a hard rock song. So I'm trying to figure out the best way to do that and still keep the mids, highs, soundstaging, and general presence that the Polks provide. To put it another way, given the diversity of music that I like, I think it's remarkable that the Polks have gotten me about 80-90% of the way toward getting the sound I want, so I'm just trying to figure out the best way to come close to filling in that remaining 10-20%.
I really don't think that you are going to find a match to your RTiA12s for $200.
Check out the Outlaw Sub(s) in the Polk classifieds - killer price and would be a good match!
H9: If you don't trust what you are hearing, then maybe you need to be less invested in a hobby which all the pleasure comes from listening to music. -
Erik Tracy wrote: »I really don't think that you are going to find a match to your RTiA12s for $200.
Check out the Outlaw Sub(s) in the Polk classifieds - killer price and would be a good match!
Well, I'm going to have to because I can't spend more than that. Also, since I bought the speakers for $150, it seems silly to pay more than $200 for a used sub, since the sub should theoretically be LESS money than the speakers.
Over the past few months, I've used local music stores and craigslist to compile a system consisting of the Polks, some ADS Atelier components (amp that I'm using as a preamp, tuner, CD player), a Crown DC300a power amp, a Pioneer PL-12D turntable, and a Technics 1200 turntable. And I haven't paid more than $250 for any of them individually (the Technics was the most expensive thing--$250). So, I'd be willing to wait until a decent sub came along in one of those places for less than $200. I was just wondering which ones I should be looking for, both in terms of quality and in terms of ones that have a chance of being found for a thrift price of under $200.
Thanks for the heads up on the Outlaws; I'll check 'em out.
