Receiver and Amplifier for LSi Series

jb77k

Looking to buy:

Onkyo TX-SR806 receiver
Emotiva XPA-3 Amp
LSi9 Bookshelves for fronts
LSiC for Center
LC65fx for Surrounds and Rears (4 of them)
CSW200 Sub with Amp

The question is, if I use the pre-amp output from the Onkyo to power the LSiC and two LSi9's via the Emotiva, will the receiver have enough juice to power the other four speakers? If not, what is the best option, should I "downgrade" to another Polk speaker that is rated at 8 ohms, instead of 4 ohms like the LC65fx or simply go to a 5 or 7 channel amp, but I am not sure if that is truly required. I would like to stick with the LC65fx for my four surround and rear speakers, but if I can't give them enough power, am I paying for something that I am not going to benefit from? Are there any receivers out there <$1,200 that can really feed the needed power to these speakers? It seems other forum threads have indicated that I need an amp - but hopefully if I amp the front three channels that will cover me.

The Onkyo TX-SR806 really doesn't say that any particular channel is rated at 8 ohms, but it does say that it has a "dynamic" power rating of 250w at 4 ohms.

ben62670

http://emotiva.com/upa7.shtm , and be done with it.

Bass_Pedal

The Emo UPA7 would be the easiest and probably cheapest (how can they sell that thing for $549?) solution. I would only add that unless the TX-SR806 has something that lower priced receivers like the 706 or below don't have I would save the money and get one of those instead since you aren't utilizing the amp section.

comfortablycurt

Get a pre-amp processor and a 7 channel power amp and be done with it. No sense getting a receiver if you're not going to use the power section of it. You'd be better off with a home theater pre-amp.

Most receivers power sections aren't really capable of powering 4 ohm loads. That 806 might be "certified" for 4 ohm performance...but it causes considerable strain to the amplifier section of it. It's not really designed to continuously drive 4 ohm loads at higher volumes.

Bass_Pedal

I thought about the pre-amp processor route as well but I haven't seen any with the new audio formats that aren't considerably more expensive than one of those Onks. Unless of course the great White Knight of the AV world Emotiva has a reasonably priced solution.

comfortablycurt

Bass_Pedal wrote: »

I thought about the pre-amp processor route as well but I haven't seen any with the new audio formats that aren't considerably more expensive than one of those Onks. Unless of course the great White Knight of the AV world Emotiva has a reasonably priced solution.

Emotiva is supposed to be releasing the UMC-1 pre/pro soon...not sure what the MSRP is going to be though. I'd imagine it will follow along the same lines as their current offerings though.

Also, there's the OnkyoPro PR-SC886P which has an MSRP of 1600, but with some searching can be had used for 1100ish.

http://www.onkyopro.com/model.cfm?m=PR-SC886P&class=Preamplifier&p=i

http://www.markertek.com/Product.asp?cat=AUDIOEQUIP&subcat=&prodclass=RECEIVERS&baseitem=ONK-PRSC886P&search=0&off=0&showreturn=0&utm_source=thefind&utm_medium=shoppingengine&utm_term=&utm_content=&utm_campaign=sffind

LarryK

This will be my first post so please excuse if this ground has been covered before. Looking for processor & amp as well. LSi15's, LSic, LSi7's (thinking about adding LSif/x's ). Now going to seperates from Denon 1705AVR that I think is underpowered. Opinions... Go for latest edition of some brand new equipment or used (or demo) of past generation without bells and whistles of McIntosh gear. Budget is 2-3k for each component. If new gear is the choice, what's the best match in that price range. I don't especially go for big bang sounds and loud crashes, looking for good clean sound. Hope not to long-winded, thanks for your help. Looks like a great site.

jb77k

Thanks for all the input/direction. Since this has started and I have gotten some good feedback here, I think I am going to go with the seven channel amp from Emotiva, and am going to wait on their new pre-amp. It is supposed to have all the goodies (HDMI, upscaling, etc.) and can handle all the new audio formats - right now they are thinking it will be $699 (probably available in June) - so I'll probably wait on that and use my current receiver with the Emotiva 7-channel amp. If I am going to use a 7-channel amp, I would agree that I am better off skipping the receiver altogether and go with all Emotiva. The Emotiva UPA-7 is rated at 185 watts/channel at a 4 ohm loading (which is what all seven of the Polks are that I am looking at) so it seems like it will have the juice to power everything.

cfrizz

If you can do without all the bells & whistles going for a pre & amp from Audiogon is a great way to go.

I've got older model Sunfires that give me the power that will drive just about any speaker (including LSI's) & all the bells & whistles that I am interested in for a fraction of the price it would have cost me to buy them new.

Get at least an amp with 200wpc @ 8ohms for those LSI's.

For new gear check out Outlaw Audio & Emotiva. Good bang for the buck gear with good reputations.

Welcome to Club Polk!

Whadyasay

I use a Denon 2809 as a Pre/Pro (was using a 2805 previously) into a Marantz MM9000 amp for my LSi's. The good mid-level receivers from Denon/Onkyo/Yamaha have just as good digital surround processing for home theater as any of the dedicated pre/pro's, and their analog sections are pretty good....so you just have to look for one with pre-outs. Plus, they already all come with HDMI switching and auto setup/room EQ....Denon's have the Audyssey MultEQXT. You can get a solid 5-ch amp like the Emotiva or an Outlaw, and just use the receiver's amp for the surround backs, which see limited use anyway and you can use some 8-ohm Polks or what have you for them. Also, with the receivers, there's wider availability, so you might have quicker/easier options for returns or replacements.

I used to have a Sony TA-P9000ES 5.1-ch analog preamp/switcher for SACD's/DVD-A's....but now I use an Oppo player which can stream those formats digitally over HDMI, which the Denon can decode, so everything goes in digitally over a few HDMI's into the Denon.

jb77k

I would like to thank everyone for their replies so far. You have all helped me fine tune my equipment selection. Unfortunately, at the same time, you have revealed new questions for me!

So, I can either:

Buy the new pre-amp when Emotiva comes out with it, and pair it with the UPA-7.

Or, I can buy the XPA-5 and instead of the pre-amp, pair the XPA-5 with a decent Pioneer or Onkyo receiver to power the two rear channels to get to a seven channel system (either system will be paired with a CSW-200 with it's own amp, with another CSW-200 to come when my wallet recovers).

I guess the biggest issue at this point, is if I go with option 2, will a decent receiver power two 4 ohm speakers if they are the sixth and seventh channel?

Keep in mind, all of the speakers I am going to purchase are 4 ohm speakers. Most receivers aren't rated at 4 ohm (especially in the price range I am looking) - but I really want to run the Lsi9's, Lsi-C and the LC65fx (for all four surround channels). All of these are 4 ohms - if I buy a five channel amp, I am hoping that I won't ruin the reciever (or the speakers!) if I am running a receiver to power the back channels.

Or am I best off just dropping the rears, going with the XPA-5 and buying the new Emotiva pre-amp when it comes out - then wait a year or two and then buy the XPA-2?

Decisions, decisions, decisions.... Luckily, I haven't bought anything yet and I have you experts to guide my purchase!

Whadyasay

For such limited material in the rear surrounds (when actually included on a discs track) , and only working those lone speakers, a receiver's amp should be fine....if you go that route. An amp has to work harder at lower frequencies, and rarely will they ever put low bass in the rear 6th/7th channels. Plus, you can set the rear surrounds to small anyway, and pass the low freqs from 40/60/80/120hz down to the subwoofer...further easing the workload on the receiver's amp. 4-ohm nominal load handling 80hz and up for a few ambient effects and the occasional discreet bullet or car pass to the direct rear in those 1-out-of-10 movies that actually have a DDEX/DTS-ES or 6.1/7.1 track should be a walk in the park.

emoxley

I'm using an Onkyo TX-SR805 receiver (no extra amp), with LSi9s and LSiC, and a couple of Sony rears. The Polks are 4 ohm, and the Sony's are 8 ohm. Everything is working good. The 805 doesn't run hot at all. I don't have it closed in. During setup of receiver, there was an option of setup for 4 ohm and 8 ohm speakers. So the receiver should be able to handle it. I'm sure the 806 is the same..........

Try it out with just the receiver, before buying an amp, and see how it works for you. You may be happy with it, like it is.

mmadden28

I'm using an Onk 805 and bypassing the internal amps (thus zero stress on them) and using an external amp and the Onk is always hot unless it fully ventilated or with a fan.

It may be rated to be able run 4 ohm speakers, but it WILL NOT run LSi's to their full potential. The amp will likely go into protection mode if you crank it up as well. I've seen enough recommedations around here to confidently say that you should not expect great results by running a full set of LSi's off of an AVR without an external amp.

jb77k

mmadden:

I understand that the onkyo is probably not sufficient to run everything and from what I have read it seems like everyone is on the same page there. Do you think it will have enough juice to power the two rears (4 ohm speakers) without an amp - I want to just use the amp for the other five channels and use the onkyo for the two rears.

CaligulaPolk

Will Buttkicker BKA1000-4A power Amplifier able to power LSI 9, 15, or 25

1000 Watts @ 4 ohms
• 1900 Watts @ 2 ohms
• Can power 1, 2, 3, or 4 ButtKicker LFE transducers
• Class D switching technology
• Variable high cutoff, 40 - 160 Hz
• Low cutoff, 25 Hz switchable
• RCA and 1/4” inputs with 160m Volt and 1.25 Volt sensitivities
• Either 120v or 240v versions. NOT SWITCHABLE


BKA100-4A Dimensions:
12" wide, 12" deep by 4.625" off the ground.

it seems more power than Emotiva upa-2 or 7?

Face

More powerful doesn't mean it'll sound better.

CaligulaPolk

Face wrote: »

More powerful doesn't mean it'll sound better.

yea thats why i asked

Well curt and i talked abt the amps other night, i just thought about buttkicker amp to hook up lsi speakers today. wondered if itd power and "Sound better" better than emotiva upa amps.

mmadden28

CaligulaPolk wrote: »

yea thats why i asked

Well curt and i talked abt the amps other night, i just thought about buttkicker amp to hook up lsi speakers today. wondered if itd power and "Sound better" better than emotiva upa amps.

I'm going to say no. It appears that the Buttkicker's freq response only goes up to 200Hz. Its simply designed for low Frequency.

CaligulaPolk

mmadden28 wrote: »

I'm going to say no. It appears that the Buttkicker's freq response only goes up to 200Hz. Its simply designed for low Frequency.

ok, that cleared up! ok back to the topic.

comfortablycurt

mmadden28 wrote: »

I'm going to say no. It appears that the Buttkicker's freq response only goes up to 200Hz. Its simply designed for low Frequency.

x2 That amp is designed for driving the buttkickers...it isn't really meant to drive speakers.