LSi listening questions ~

cokewithvanilla

F1nut wrote: »

Huh? Not that poor recordings are your problem, but why would think that DVD's can't be poorly recorded???

Well, I mean, I would assume they can be trusted more... I have also heard them on other systems, which I cannot say for the ripped audio.

I am using Signal interconnects, not the silver ones, but the other ones that are like the second one up...

Speakers out of phase? what does that mean, that the wires are in the wrong places? this I can assure you is not the case

The room, yes its ****. I admit this. But since I am unlikely to rebuild that current room anytime soon, and since I might have the inclination to move the speakers anywhere I choose... I would like them to sound the best that they can.

Igo

cokewithvanilla wrote: »

Speakers out of phase? what does that mean, that the wires are in the wrong places? this I can assure you is not the case

You sure?

cokewithvanilla

+ to +, - to -...or red to red and black to black....this is correct, right?

Igo

Yepper!

SEH

cokewithvanilla wrote: »

The room, yes its ****. I admit this. But since I am unlikely to rebuild that current room anytime soon, and since I might have the inclination to move the speakers anywhere I choose... I would like them to sound the best that they can.

If you tried different sources to rule that out and aren't going to do anything with the room, then maybe they already do sound the best they can. You could still try moving them around, since the placement seems less than ideal.

lumpy

coke

how exactly do you have these connected and dialed in.
do you have the subwoofer coax connection out of the receiver, the jumpers removed and the tops driven from the amp (adjust the volume to max) - or - are you driving them strait from the amp with the jumpers on and no subwoofer connection (adjust the crossover dial on the back).

these speakers should shake the pictures off the walls - Mine do

mmadden28

Just a few psuedo-random suggestions--might have already been suggested but--since you'r grasping at straws here...-I'm not sure if perhaps you posted some other information in other threads that are not in this thread, but its difficult to tell in this post and your responses what you did or did not do.

1. Perhaps you could temporarily move them to their intended location or perhaps just to a bigger room just to see if you hear a difference.
   
2. Maybe temporarily put a rug or blankets on the floor. And some blankets on the walls, or some pillows in the room-just to maybe tame any of the rooms "live-ness" or "hardness".???
   
3. Try some new speaker wire or perhaps a thicker gauge?? Just in case the wire is bad or is not of high enough gauge for the power running through it? What speaker wire and gauge are you using?
   
4. Maybe there is an issue with the amp when it has to provide the power for the dynamic output?
   
5. Do you have another AVR or amp you could try these on?
   
6. Do you have any other speakers you could try?
   
7. It is possible the computer as a source could be an issue-don't rule it out (even though you said you already tried a sep cdp). Although I understand you're using FLAC, have you tried playing the original CD, but thru the computer?
   
8. Do you have any processing in effect on the computer? What I mean is any DSP or effects like 3D, Hall, etc that might be altering the audio signal unnaturally?
   
9. Is there a direct mode on the pre? Is there any Dig Sig processing being done on at the pre?
   
10. Do you have an iPod with some high sample rate songs to try and connect directly to the pre/pro or amp??
    
11. Is there possibly something wrong with one of the speakers? Did you try disconnecting each speaker and just listening to the other by itself? Do they sound the same?
    
12. Not sure if the LSi25 is the same as an LSi9 in this respect, but the LSI9 has a specific left and right speaker. Not sure what difference it would make if reversed, but if the LSI25's have this same requirement, are they in the correct orientation?
    
13. Are you using a subwoofer? Sometimes if the sub is not calibrated to the mains properly, some of the overlapping frequencies could cancel each other out
    
14. If using a subwoofer (or not), does your pre/pro have any crossover settings? Are any set?
    
15. Do you have any pics of your setup-this might help with more suggestions.
    
16. Lastly, I would suggest you get an SPL meter from Radio Shack ($40 but everybody into audio should have one anyway) and download and install Room EQ Wizard (its free you just have to join the forum). You'll need an adapter like this and a standard RCA interconnect or this to connect the meter to the PC. You already have your computer in the listening room so you could just connect the SPL meter to the line in on your PC. Do some sweeps to see if maybe you have any huge nulls or peaks in the room.

cokewithvanilla

lumpy wrote: »

coke

how exactly do you have these connected and dialed in.
do you have the subwoofer coax connection out of the receiver, the jumpers removed and the tops driven from the amp (adjust the volume to max) - or - are you driving them strait from the amp with the jumpers on and no subwoofer connection (adjust the crossover dial on the back).

these speakers should shake the pictures off the walls - Mine do

I have them connected with jumpers on. At one point, I had each sub connected to a sub out... and learned that this made it so the sub wouldnt work in 2 channel audio (no idea why?)

and these kind of statements are exactly why i am so frustrated! "These speakers should shake the pictures off the walls" Mine are so tame, I have to crank them nearly all the way uip to notice anything (of course some tracks are louder than others)... and I am afraid to do that because I was running my lsic on high volume and the tweeter started to smell! Pretty much I have discarded the idea of a C, and plan to use a 9 instead . But anyway....

In regard to mmadden28's post,
1. good idea but right now too much labor involved, moving two 100 pound speakers, a 100 pound amp and all the associated wires.....for now
2. At one point I had a bunch of blankets in the room, it helped with the echo, but the actual sound didnt really change. I noticed that I could listen at higher levels without it hurting my ears as badly though...
3. im using 12 gauge wire... thin strand copper...
4. issue with the amp... I certainly hope not! I called b&k and they assured me that if its playing, there is nothing wrong with it.... that was the last answer I expected
5. Nothing that could drive these
6. some crappy ones....
7. I actually have a cd player plugged in right next to the computer, and it sounds just the same
8. none on the computer
9. I really have no idea if there is... its a Emotiva DMC-1
10. I do, and it sounds the same
11. yep, polk went crazy on me with tests... having me remove the drivers and tweeter and connecting them directly to the amp... and, of course, listening to each speaker separately.
12. yes, they are left and right. The only reason I can see for this is the subwoofer placement.
13. no sub... currently I only have the 25's running... sadly I have 5 open channels on that amp
14. it does have crossover settings...I went ahead and just reset the thing to defaults. I think its at 80hz... as I recall, I changed it to 60hz and liked the sound better, but polk told me to I might wanna leave it at 80.
15. no pictures, but I can take some... its pretty simple though... picture an empty rectangular room with a line of audio gear at one end...and a chair at the other.
16. I guess I should pick up one of those some time

megasat16

cokewithvanilla wrote: »

14. it does have crossover settings...I went ahead and just reset the thing to defaults. I think its at 80hz... as I recall, I changed it to 60hz and liked the sound better, but polk told me to I might wanna leave it at 80.

That makes me think that you were not setting the Front Main Channel Output to "LARGE". If you set the speaker to Large, the LFE crossover should be automatically bypassed and AVR should send the full frequency output to the Front Channel. Depending on the AVR you use, also check the LFE setting to see there is an option to send the LFE signal to the subs out (LFE out) as well as the front mains out (read your AVR manual for the LFE channels and Crossover settings).

Also, check the phase switch behind the LSi25 is set identically between two speakers. Different Phase Setting between speakers can screw up the stereo imaging. The phase switch is on the Plate Amplifier at the back of the LSi25.

Fatwalnut

Dude I think that you are expecting WAY WAY WAY to much out of the Lsi-25's. These speakers will not rattle the walls or your bean. You need to take a step back, find a friend or a freind of a freind who knows something about home electronics, to take a look and listen to you system. You are a hairs breath away from permanently damaging your speakers or someting else in your system. dude don't touch your system until someone checks it out for you!!

cokewithvanilla

Phase switches ok, speakers set to large.

and who said I expected them to rattle my walls? I'm not looking for loud, I'm looking for quality sound.

What, exactly, did I do to get close to damaging something in my system?

Fatwalnut

u smelled the tweeter ?? remember saying that. turning the system almost all the way up, remember that. these are no no's. Dude get someome who knows about home audio to help you learn the in's and out's. Never ever turn a system up that loud. You will overdrive and burn up the tweeters, or possible the cross-overs.

"and these kind of statements are exactly why i am so frustrated! "These speakers should shake the pictures off the walls" Mine are so tame" remember this dude.
You will never get the quality you are looking for unless u spend alot of money to do it. I am very happy with my Lsi-25's and they sound the way they are suppose too. You are expecting way too much from them.

Hawkeye

Have you entertained the idea that perhaps the 25 is not the speaker for your ears? Considering the many posts here by people who have satisfactory results, you probably have a fine sounding system. It just does not float your boat. There is nothing wrong with that. You may need to expand your choice of speaker to other brands to achieve what you are looking for.

Your speakers and pre/amp are of fine caliber. I have my doubts about using a computer/Ipod for quality music but that is your choice. You can't or won't do anything to improve the room by adding treatments. And no, you cannot move a rig from one place to another and have it sound the same in each. Just not going to happen.

Dialing in a system takes time, money and effort which seems you do not want to do. Just plopping some speakers and a front end in a room expecting it to sound good without some of the above is futile.

Gordon

Face

Sell your 25's, pick up some 15's and a large powered sub, problem solved.

cokewithvanilla

Fatwalnut wrote: »

u smelled the tweeter ?? remember saying that. turning the system almost all the way up, remember that. these are no no's. Dude get someome who knows about home audio to help you learn the in's and out's. Never ever turn a system up that loud. You will overdrive and burn up the tweeters, or possible the cross-overs.

"and these kind of statements are exactly why i am so frustrated! "These speakers should shake the pictures off the walls" Mine are so tame" remember this dude.
You will never get the quality you are looking for unless u spend alot of money to do it. I am very happy with my Lsi-25's and they sound the way they are suppose too. You are expecting way too much from them.

If you read properly, it was my C that smelled, not my 25's. and those kind of statements are why im frustrated... yes... everyone says they are so good, and mine simply aren't...whether it be shaking the walls (which I don't much care about), or the wonderful reviews they get on the qualities of their sound reproduction.

cokewithvanilla

I found that an Ipod can be a good source. I was demoing speakers yesterday and all they used was an ipod, an entire mcintosh setup (2x1.2kw amps, controller, preamp), and the speakers I was listening to, which happened to be revels and paradigms.

I liked some things about the revels, and in some cases I thought mine sounded better. "Still" on the revels was pretty impressive.

Maybe I should try the 15's, everyone claims they are better than the 25's..I could always use the 25's with the subs turned off or real low as rears...

CaligulaPolk

why is 15 better than 25?

cokewithvanilla

dunno, never owned 15's. But everyone says that the woofers sound better, or at least match the driver and tweeter better.

Igo

cokewithvanilla wrote: »

If you read properly, it was my C that smelled, not my 25's. and those kind of statements are why im frustrated... yes... everyone says they are so good, and mine simply aren't...whether it be shaking the walls (which I don't much care about), or the wonderful reviews they get on the qualities of their sound reproduction.

People are trying to help you but you keep snapping at them. Fact is, if your speakers are functioning as designed then the problem lies elsewhere.

cokewithvanilla

I'm not snapping at him.. did you read his sarcastic **** post in my other thread? thats the only reason I worded it in such a way... who wants help from someone who is an ****? I'd rather not have the help (or input, I shouldnt even call it "help") if they have to act in such a way

If you don't like the questions I ask, or think they are stupid, then simply don't post in this thread... I don't go around shitting on other peoples threads with useless posts simply because I think they have asked something they shouldn't or whatnot.

Hawkeye

Several years ago, I bought the RT2000i. One might call it the great grandfather of the 25. I was using an Onkyo AVR that actually had I think it was called AC5 or something like that. That was the early surround sound if my memory is correct.

I could never dial in that speaker no matter what I tried. I installed a B&K 7250 amp in an attempt to provide more power. Customer service went round and round with trying to help me. They were top notch in my book. I eventually had to move on but those speakers are now in my son in laws house and he enjoys them to no end.

There was nothing wrong with my system other than the fact the sound did not agree with me. Even though there are many good things said about the 25, it is your ears that have to decide. What sounds good to me may sound like crap to you and vice versa. It does not help your case if snap at people while they are trying to help you. My other son brought his computer to our house and ran his music through my system. It sounded terrible to me but he thought it was the best thing since sliced bread.

You listened to an Ipod through McIntosh 1.2k's, probably a C1000 pre with both SS and tube. That is about $48,000.00 worth of front end gear alone. I'm figuring maybe 5-6K worth of speakers, maybe more. That gear would make a 1929 Gramaphone playing 78's sound good. But's lets get real, unless your a wealthy college student, that is the stuff you buy after you graduate.

Go back and read some of the hints and suggestions folks have made here for you. There is some very good advice being given to you but don't come back and complain if you have not tried some of them.

Gordon

cokewithvanilla

It might just be my ears then.

Its not as if I am not trying the suggestions. Most things that have been suggested, I have already tried. The only thing I haven't done is change the room. Since I will never change the room, its hard to explore that thought.

As far as sources that you mentioned, I have tried DVD, iPod, Computer, CD Player.... I am running out of sources, and its hard to believe that they are all bad.

I suppose its either the room or my ears at this point.

I am not rejecting any advice... but I have to ignore that which I cannot afford... and any alterations to the room fall into that catagory.

I have been to many dealers to demo speakers and asked what they did to their rooms... they all said "nothing". And you have to remember that most of these stores arent the first store to occupy that building, and the building was certainly not designed around that business (I'm talking about these that I have visited in strip malls, not best buy type stores)... so if the speakers sound good there, why not in ANY room that I have tried? Maybe my logic is wrong, but I have sat in many rooms of all shapes and sizes and demoed speakers, and for the most part they sound good.

I have demoed with equipment far greater than mine, and equipment that is worse... only thing I havent been able to demo since my dealer went out of business is the polks.

I would love to take my speakers to a dealer and set them up there, or take my amp, or whatever...but of course, this will never happen.

mmadden28

cokewithvanilla wrote: »

...

I would love to take my speakers to a dealer and set them up there, or take my amp, or whatever...but of course, this will never happen.

Why not this guy did it

Some of my suggestions were temporary, such as the blankets in the room. Nothing permanent. It can't hurt to try them to see if it changes anything. If it does, then you know the cause of the sound issue, if it doesn't then perhaps it's not.
The REQ Wizard sweep will give you an objective look at the acoustics of your room. If you seriously want to try to figure this out, then get the SPL meter and the software and do it. If for nothing else, but for the peace of mind-besides if you do discover some serious peaks and/or valleys in your sweep-you just might be able to correct it with an inexpensive EQ using the REQ Wizard.

Also FYI, as somebody that has not read any of the other threads you are referring to-just from your 'reactions' in this thread you are coming off as unwilling and 'snappy'.

peace

F1nut

Eh, you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink.

cokewithvanilla

blankets have been tried. I even put a matress in there -.-

the only thing I havent gone for was the spl meter... maybe thats all I can do

LessisNevermore

Mankite wrote: »

dahh

6 of your 9 posts have been: dahh.

What's your deal?

cokewithvanilla

haha... when I saw that I kinda wondered what it meant. After you commented on it, I looked it up on urban dictionary and this is what I found:

"im confused... just a random word to put when trying to break silence... something joe johnson says out of the blue."

6 up, 2 down

and

"the severity in which the dreaded bees attack in which the severity is measured by the amount of "h"'s in the dahh"

4 up, 4 down

At any rate, it must have originated as some kind of stupid inside joke on you tube or some movie...or it is a nonsensical utterance by the character "Joe Johnson" (basketball player?) Thats my best guess

Hey, at least we now know that Mankite is 11 to 16 years old