DIY Focal Bookshelf Speaker

zingo
zingo Posts: 11,258
edited February 2010 in DIY, Mods & Tweaks
I have been looking at designing a bookshelf speaker using Focal drivers. (Don't worry, I'm still on the road to my Super MTMWW, but this is first stop :D) I was eyeing a MTM design, but now am also thinking about a TMM or TM. I like the added sensitivity of the extra woofer and MTM designs, but heard they can be tricky to correctly implement. I would appreciate any help or experience that people have had and any suggestions. (I will be using a sealed box as planned thus far)

Focal TC90TD5B Tweeter
e20c_1.JPG

Focal 6W4252 Midwoofer
200e_1.JPG

If I can pull these off well, I think they would make a nice replacement for my Monitor 5Jrs. :cool:
Jake
Post edited by zingo on
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Comments

  • ben62670
    ben62670 Posts: 15,969
    edited December 2008
    The Focal tweeters are very nice, but the mid woofers tend to be lacking down low. Your Monitor 5's would be better bass wise. You may want to look into a seas woofer. Check DIYaudio, and zalph's web sites. They have good info there.
    Ben
    Please. Please contact me a ben62670 @ yahoo.com. Make sure to include who you are, and you are from Polk so I don't delete your email. Also I am now physically unable to work on any projects. If you need help let these guys know. There are many people who will help if you let them know where you are.
    Thanks
    Ben
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  • ShinAce
    ShinAce Posts: 1,194
    edited December 2008
    My recommendation is to go straight 2 way(MT) and attenuate the tweeter as needed. I assume you have a sub and don't need this thing to play flat down to 10 Hz.

    If you do go the Appolitto road, then know that the distance between the center of the tweeter tot he center of the mids is supposed to match the wavelength of the crossover frequency. This applies to second order crossover networks and has to do with lobing(directivity).

    Best of luck, and don't forget you can always use a single panel to mount the parts to a baffle. Do some listening tests to tweak the crossover region.
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  • zingo
    zingo Posts: 11,258
    edited December 2008
    What about the Usher 8945P 7" Woofer for a two way TM with the Focal tweeter? It looks like keeping the tweeter above 2K would keep the response pretty flat, and the woofer seems up to the task.

    296-602_s.jpg
    Jake
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  • ben62670
    ben62670 Posts: 15,969
    edited December 2008
    This guy does a lot of great research.
    http://www.zaphaudio.com/
    Please. Please contact me a ben62670 @ yahoo.com. Make sure to include who you are, and you are from Polk so I don't delete your email. Also I am now physically unable to work on any projects. If you need help let these guys know. There are many people who will help if you let them know where you are.
    Thanks
    Ben
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  • ViperZ
    ViperZ Posts: 2,046
    edited December 2008
    ben62670 wrote: »
    This guy does a lot of great research.
    http://www.zaphaudio.com/

    Wow, what an awesome and detailed site!
    Panasonic PT-AE4000U projector for movies
    Carada 106" Precision Series (Classic Cinema White)
    Denon AVR-X3600H pre/pro
    Outlaw 770 7-channel amplifier
    B&W CDM1-SE fronts
    B&W CDM-CNT center
    B&W CDM1 rears on MoPADs
    JBL SP8CII in-ceiling height speakers
    Samsung DTB-H260F OTA HDTV tuner
    DUAL NHT SubTwo subwoofers
    Oppo BDP-93 Blu-Ray player
    Belkin PF60 Power Center
    Harmony 1100 RF remote with RF extender
    Sony XBR-X950G 55" 4K HDR Smart TV + PS3 in the living room
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  • zingo
    zingo Posts: 11,258
    edited December 2008
    He does provide a lot of great info! I have a lot of reading to do...
    Jake
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  • ben62670
    ben62670 Posts: 15,969
    edited December 2008
    A lot of speakers look good on paper, but have issues with breakup, or distortion. Some manufacturer's specs tend to be a little a little lenient when it comes to the performance of their products;) Zaph has not IMHO shown any favor to any manufacture, and his info is highly praised in the DIY community.
    Please. Please contact me a ben62670 @ yahoo.com. Make sure to include who you are, and you are from Polk so I don't delete your email. Also I am now physically unable to work on any projects. If you need help let these guys know. There are many people who will help if you let them know where you are.
    Thanks
    Ben
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  • clearwave
    clearwave Posts: 17
    edited December 2008
    I just finished a TMM using the Seas DXT tweeter and SB Acoustics 7" that I think is excellent. The SB Acoustics have near Scan Speak level harmonic distortion levels at 1/4 the price. It's not a bookshelf, however.

    Do you know how to design a crossover, Zingo? That will be the biggest issue.
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  • zingo
    zingo Posts: 11,258
    edited January 2009
    I have a little experience designing crossovers, but I'm pretty good at taking advise too. :D

    Lookie what I found...

    http://www.geocities.com/woove99/Spkrbldg/
    Jake
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  • zingo
    zingo Posts: 11,258
    edited January 2009
    Usher 8945P 7" / Peerless HDS 1" MTM in a 1 cu.ft. sealed bookshelf configuration. Here is the designed crossover for the three drivers with impedance flattening for tubes.

    XO_8945P_HDS_MTM_IC.gif

    The initial cost is $814 ($160 for two tweeters + $240 for two cabs + $420 for four woofers), not including the crossovers, binding post, etc.
    Jake
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  • clearwave
    clearwave Posts: 17
    edited January 2009
    zingo wrote: »

    The initial cost is $814 ($160 for two tweeters + $240 for two cabs + $420 for four woofers), not including the crossovers, binding post, etc.

    That's a lot of money for a simulated design. In other words, he traced someone's else's IB measurements (zaph audio), added the diffraction prediction from the FRD Consortium software, added minimum phase data, and came up with the crossover without taking measurements in the actual box. Simulations can get you 90percent there but it's not an optimized design with real in box measurements. Only you can judge whether or not that is important to you.

    I'd be happy to design you a TMM or TM type speaker using those drivers with a real measurements.
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  • zingo
    zingo Posts: 11,258
    edited January 2009
    You're absolutely right, and one reason I have been eyeing the finished TM version since I last posted:

    Usher_pic1.JPG

    I also really like the Zaph Audio Scan-Speak Revelator TM, but this is a pricey build...
    Jake
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  • clearwave
    clearwave Posts: 17
    edited January 2009
    Show me the real measurements for that design. You won't find any. Zaph's on the other hand is perfectly documented.
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  • Early B.
    Early B. Posts: 7,900
    edited January 2009
    Zingo --

    What's your budget and design goals?

    You're budgeting $240 for cabinets? You'll save $200 by making them yourself.

    I would highly recommend working with Jed on this project.
    HT/2-channel Rig: Sony 50” LCD TV; Toshiba HD-A2 DVD player; Emotiva LMC-1 pre/pro; Rogue Audio M-120 monoblocks (modded); Placette RVC; Emotiva LPA-1 amp; Bada HD-22 tube CDP (modded); VMPS Tower II SE (fronts); DIY Clearwave Dynamic 4CC (center); Wharfedale Opus Tri-Surrounds (rear); and VMPS 215 sub

    "God grooves with tubes."
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  • zingo
    zingo Posts: 11,258
    edited January 2009
    clearwave wrote: »
    Show me the real measurements for that design. You won't find any. Zaph's on the other hand is perfectly documented.

    Alright alright. :p I see what you're getting at...
    Jake
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  • zingo
    zingo Posts: 11,258
    edited January 2009
    Early B. wrote: »
    Zingo --

    What's your budget and design goals?

    You're budgeting $240 for cabinets? You'll save $200 by making them yourself.

    I would highly recommend working with Jed on this project.

    My budget is around $600 and I would like a high performance 2 way. I have the skills to make the cabs, and would prefer to do it that way, but don't have the tools or the space in my apartment.

    I feel stupid, but who's Jed? :o
    Jake
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  • ShinAce
    ShinAce Posts: 1,194
    edited January 2009
    Partsexpress shows the tweeter as discontinued and with an RMS power handling of 12 watts.

    That would be a deal breaker for me.
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  • Early B.
    Early B. Posts: 7,900
    edited January 2009
    zingo wrote: »
    I feel stupid, but who's Jed? :o

    Clearwave. He's the guy who designed the massive center channel I just built.
    HT/2-channel Rig: Sony 50” LCD TV; Toshiba HD-A2 DVD player; Emotiva LMC-1 pre/pro; Rogue Audio M-120 monoblocks (modded); Placette RVC; Emotiva LPA-1 amp; Bada HD-22 tube CDP (modded); VMPS Tower II SE (fronts); DIY Clearwave Dynamic 4CC (center); Wharfedale Opus Tri-Surrounds (rear); and VMPS 215 sub

    "God grooves with tubes."
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  • Systems
    Systems Posts: 14,873
    edited January 2009
    Masdisound sells a complete Zaph SR71 kit.It uses SEAS (prestige series) drivers but more importantly the crossover has been expertly designed to seemless blend them together.
    http://www.madisound.com/catalog/index.php?cPath=35_40_402_408
    Testing
    Testing
    Testing
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  • clearwave
    clearwave Posts: 17
    edited January 2009
    zingo wrote: »

    I feel stupid, but who's Jed? :o

    That's me.

    http://clearwaveloudspeaker.googlepages.com
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  • zingo
    zingo Posts: 11,258
    edited January 2009
    clearwave wrote: »
    That's me.

    http://clearwaveloudspeaker.googlepages.com

    Now I feel even more stupid... but nice to officially meet you! Those are some great designs and I'll have to look over them.
    Jake
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  • clearwave
    clearwave Posts: 17
    edited January 2009
    zingo wrote: »
    Now I feel even more stupid... but nice to officially meet you! Those are some great designs and I'll have to look over them.

    Hey thanks! And don't feel stupid. Also, we can do any design you want really. As long as I have a test box that'll work. I'm finishing up the M5 bookshelf that is in your pricerange and I'll give you demo pricing on it if you are interested just send me an email clearwavespeakers(at)gmail(dot)com
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  • jonlereux
    jonlereux Posts: 7
    edited February 2010
    Clearwater, did you ever get a chance to look at the Usher/ Peerless design posted? I am intersted in real world measurements with those drivers as they seemed like an excellent value for the performance.
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  • jonlereux
    jonlereux Posts: 7
    edited February 2010
    Sorry, I meant Clearwave. my apologies
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