MS Cash back - pending still

danger boy
danger boy Posts: 15,722
edited February 2009 in The Clubhouse
A month or so ago I purchased a Blu Ray player through Ebay using the MS Cash back program. A month later my cash back is still pending. I don't think it should have taken this long.

I just wrote to MS today about it.. is there anyone out there who still has a cash back refund pending from a month ago? I don't want to lose it, but it's not being processed by someone. So I'm trying to figure out where the log jam is taking place. I think I have 44 days left to figure it out before it gets canceled as not processed or unclaimed.
PolkFest 2012, who's going>?
Vancouver, Canada Sept 30th, 2012 - Madonna concert :cheesygrin:
Post edited by danger boy on
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Comments

  • Motzart
    Motzart Posts: 1,075
    edited December 2008
    IIRC it's 30-60 days.
    I'm waiting for mine still.

    Yamaha RX-A710 90Watt 7.1
    Mains: RTi A1's Center: CS150 Sats: RT15i's Sub: Velodyne DPS-10
    Music CD: Sony CDP-CE375 5 Disk
    HD TV: Vizio 42" LCD 1080p E420VO
    Blu-Ray: Sony BDP-S350
    DVD: Sony DVP-NC665P 5 Disk
    AV Rack: Sanus Euro EFAB-II Audio Base x2 EFAS-II Audio Expansion Shelf x4
    Cables Used: Monster Cable HPD Sony HDMI DLCHE18W
    Phones: Sennheiser HD280 Pro
  • Early B.
    Early B. Posts: 7,900
    edited December 2008
    My cashback purchases required a 60 day waiting period. I gotta wait 'til next month.

    I was hoping that the huge cashbacks would be offered again right before Xmas, but it didn't happen.
    HT/2-channel Rig: Sony 50” LCD TV; Toshiba HD-A2 DVD player; Emotiva LMC-1 pre/pro; Rogue Audio M-120 monoblocks (modded); Placette RVC; Emotiva LPA-1 amp; Bada HD-22 tube CDP (modded); VMPS Tower II SE (fronts); DIY Clearwave Dynamic 4CC (center); Wharfedale Opus Tri-Surrounds (rear); and VMPS 215 sub

    "God grooves with tubes."
  • ND13
    ND13 Posts: 7,601
    edited December 2008
    They use mail-in cash back refunds in hope that you'll not apply or forget to and then forget about not getting it after a month or so. If you don't keep on their ****, you'll likely never see it. They seem to be able to find loop-holes in the disclaimer, too. Had that happen more than twice.

    Hope you get yours soon, but I'd keep bugging the **** out of them.
    "SOME PEOPLE CALL ME MAURICE,
    CAUSE I SPEAK OF THE POMPITIOUS OF LOVE"
  • mmadden28
    mmadden28 Posts: 4,283
    edited December 2008
    ND13 wrote: »
    They use mail-in cash back refunds in hope that you'll not apply or forget to and then forget about not getting it after a month or so. If you don't keep on their ****, you'll likely never see it. They seem to be able to find loop-holes in the disclaimer, too. Had that happen more than twice.

    Hope you get yours soon, but I'd keep bugging the **** out of them.

    Say what?
    Mail in refunds? Where did you read that? This was not a mail-in rebate offer.
    I have 3 of 4 pending, as expected.
    The cashback account will show you what is pending and what is available for payment. If it's pending, it will tell you the date it will be available for payment.
    In the one that is available now, I purchased the item on Oct 27th, so looks like 60 days was adhered to. When payment was requested, it offered me the choice of Paypal, Bank deposit, or mailed paper check (although for this particular purchase being on eBay-only PP was avalable).

    Here's a quote from the Cashback site on how it works.
    Usually 60 days after your purchase (although this time period may vary for some stores), and when your cashback account reaches a balance of at least $5, you can claim your cold, hard cash. Terms and conditions.
    The link to the terms and conditions go on to state that some cashback will need to process for up to 90 days. It also states that you have up to 6 months to file a claim for cashback not processed for some reason. It also states that accounts that are unused after 12 months may be closed (including any unclaimed rewards.)

    They send an email when the cashback is ready for payment, so there really is no reason that anybody should 'forget' about the available money for over a year.
    ____________________
    This post is a natural product. The slight variations in spelling and grammar enhance its individual character and beauty and in no way are to be considered flaws or defects.

    HT:Onkyo 805, Emotiva XPA-5, Mitsu 52" 1080p DLP / polkaudio RTi12, CSIa6, FXi3, uPro4K
    2-chnl : Pio DV-46AV (SACD), Dodd ELP, Emotiva XPA-1s, XPA-2, Odyssey Khartago, LSi9, SDA-SRS 2 :cool:, SB Duet, MSB & Monarchy DACs, Yamaha PX3 TT, SAE Tuner...
    Pool: Atrium 60's/45's
  • danger boy
    danger boy Posts: 15,722
    edited December 2008
    I thought I remember a few people in here getting their refund right away into their PayPal account? I could be wrong but that's one thing that prompted me to buy items using the LiveSearch refund offered by MS.

    So I get an email back today from Cash Back support and I can not request the money for 60 days and will be considered pending till then. But it also sounds like it could expire if not claimed from what I have read. Because it has an end date of 44 days and expires on Feb 2nd in my case. :confused:

    Either way.. it's suppose to be deposited into my PayPal account.
    PolkFest 2012, who's going>?
    Vancouver, Canada Sept 30th, 2012 - Madonna concert :cheesygrin:
  • WilliamM2
    WilliamM2 Posts: 4,771
    edited December 2008
    I believe the main reason they make you wait, is to insure you don't return the item.
  • danger boy
    danger boy Posts: 15,722
    edited February 2009
    well my cashback failed for some stupid reason I don't know about.

    I was suppose to get my cashback from Microsoft for a Blu Ray player I bought way back in early Dec, 08. I was counting down the days. MS tried to process the cashback three times and now have given up.

    It wouldn't be so bad but the amount was $110. Money i could have used to buy more movies or something else useful.

    I'm screwed.

    damnit! that sucks.. especially after waiting the 60 days the make you wait only to find out you're gonna get screwed.
    PolkFest 2012, who's going>?
    Vancouver, Canada Sept 30th, 2012 - Madonna concert :cheesygrin:
  • phipiper10
    phipiper10 Posts: 955
    edited February 2009
    Thanks to the advice here I used MS cash back and got mine the other day $37 and change of some polk car speakers.

    Best of luck on your cash back.
    Analog Source: Rega P3-24 Exact 2 w/GT delrin platter & Neo TT-PSU Digital Source: Lumin T2 w/Roon (NUC) DAC: Denafrips Pontus II Phono Preamp: Rega Aria MK3 Preamp: Rogue RP-7 Amp: Pass X150.8 Speakers: Joseph Audio Perspective 2, Audio Physic Tempo Plus Cables: Morrow M4 ICs & Audio Art SC-5 ePlus, Shunyata PCs Misc: Shunyata Hydra Delta D6, VTI rack, GIK acoustic panels
  • NotaSuv
    NotaSuv Posts: 3,849
    edited February 2009
    phipiper10 wrote: »
    Thanks to the advice here I used MS cash back and got mine the other day $37 and change of some polk car speakers.

    Best of luck on your cash back.

    i had 2 purchase that should have been MS cash back...the later was paid right away, still waiting for the second one...........at least they paid the more expensive one first.....used 2 different cards on different accounts
  • mmadden28
    mmadden28 Posts: 4,283
    edited February 2009
    That sucks. They didn't provide any explanation? That's not right to string you along like that.

    I've recieved at least 3 of mine sof far. I just checked now.....ahhh I see some failures....
    January 31, 2009
    cashback payment
    $200.00 Failed

    January 31, 2009
    eBay $200.00 In process
    Date of purchase:December 2, 2008

    Quantity:1 $200.00

    January 31, 2009
    cashback payment
    $200.00 Failed


    We've encounterd a problem depositing your cashback reward into the PayPal account that you used for your eBay purchase. But we will keep trying.

    January 31, 2009
    cashback payment
    $200.00 Failed


    We've encounterd a problem depositing your cashback reward into the PayPal account that you used for your eBay purchase. But we will keep trying.

    January 20, 2009
    eBay $112.25 Rewarded
    Date of purchase:November 21, 2008

    Your cashback reward was deposited in your PayPal account, which you used for your eBay purchase.
    Quantity:1 $112.25

    January 20, 2009
    cashback payment
    $112.25 Rewarded

    Your cashback reward was deposited right after your purchase into your PayPal account, which you used for your eBay purchase.

    January 13, 2009
    cashback payment
    Paid toPayPal
    $49.75 Rewarded

    January 8, 2009
    eBay $49.75 Rewarded
    Date of purchase:November 5, 2008

    eBay
    Quantity:1 $49.75


    January 1, 2009
    cashback payment
    Paid toPayPal
    $25.00 Rewarded
    December 31, 2008
    eBay $25.00 Rewarded
    ____________________
    This post is a natural product. The slight variations in spelling and grammar enhance its individual character and beauty and in no way are to be considered flaws or defects.

    HT:Onkyo 805, Emotiva XPA-5, Mitsu 52" 1080p DLP / polkaudio RTi12, CSIa6, FXi3, uPro4K
    2-chnl : Pio DV-46AV (SACD), Dodd ELP, Emotiva XPA-1s, XPA-2, Odyssey Khartago, LSi9, SDA-SRS 2 :cool:, SB Duet, MSB & Monarchy DACs, Yamaha PX3 TT, SAE Tuner...
    Pool: Atrium 60's/45's
  • polktiger
    polktiger Posts: 556
    edited February 2009
    It is crap like this that actually keeps me from buying where there is a vendor/3rd party cash back or rebates.

    Anymore, I will pay a little more to avoid these things since actually collecting is so unreliable. Of course this is why they offer all these cash back/mail in rebate. The goal is to wear out the customer with the processing so they don't end up having to pay.
  • danger boy
    danger boy Posts: 15,722
    edited February 2009
    well I'm glad to hear that some people have gotten some or all of their cashback.

    I will continue to bug MS about the problem. I have been in contact with the Ebay seller I purchased the BD player from. I asked if he ever received any kind of official email from MS Cashback that he might have forgotten to return or something. he said no email or notification of any kind was ever sent to him from cashback.

    I think it was just a bait and switch kind of deal.. some people get their cashback, but the majority probably do not. Just like a rebate you might get from a store where you have to mail it in and provide the UPC code and serial number of the item. How many people really jump through all the hoops to get back $10? not many i would think, so the company doesn't have to pay out much $ really in rebates.
    PolkFest 2012, who's going>?
    Vancouver, Canada Sept 30th, 2012 - Madonna concert :cheesygrin:
  • mmadden28
    mmadden28 Posts: 4,283
    edited February 2009
    I don't think the original seller of the item is involved in the cashback process at all with respect to the cashback via MS and ebay deals. Its all strictly via MS. The seller only had to list the item properly, as a BIN and PP only and the item had to be found via a live.com search and clicked on from the search results. This was not a rebate offer from the seller or the manufacturer.

    I also doubt that MS would string people along and deliberately make the process difficult or 'bait and switch' just to get bad press in the end. The idea/goal was to lure people into using live.com as the search engine as opposed to using google. They make money off of advertising on the serach engine-that is after all how google makes thier money. What better way to get people to start using it?

    In any case I make screen shots of any possibly iffy deal. I have screen shots of all of my ebay deals with MS cashback offers that show the eligibility verification for each deal, and I kept all the email communications about the cashback status, so I expect to get my $200 in the end.
    ____________________
    This post is a natural product. The slight variations in spelling and grammar enhance its individual character and beauty and in no way are to be considered flaws or defects.

    HT:Onkyo 805, Emotiva XPA-5, Mitsu 52" 1080p DLP / polkaudio RTi12, CSIa6, FXi3, uPro4K
    2-chnl : Pio DV-46AV (SACD), Dodd ELP, Emotiva XPA-1s, XPA-2, Odyssey Khartago, LSi9, SDA-SRS 2 :cool:, SB Duet, MSB & Monarchy DACs, Yamaha PX3 TT, SAE Tuner...
    Pool: Atrium 60's/45's
  • Toxis
    Toxis Posts: 5,116
    edited February 2009
    I had 3 purchases using the cash back program. The first two were for 7.99 and then 8.49. Both went pending immediately and I received the money about 6 weeks later. The third purchase was for 68.70 and it never went pending like it was supposed to. I noticed it the next day and emailed MS. Nothing happened. The only thing I got was an automated email saying "we'll get with you, don't contact us. we're looking into it." Never got another email for almost 3 weeks so I resubmit a new claim. Same automatic email with no follow up. Gave it a third try and finally got an email from a live person. Since then, it's been almost 3 weeks and I'm still waiting to hear from anyone. It's beyond ridiculous at this point and I really doubt I'll feel comfortable "relying" on them to stand by what they claim. Yeah I know, it's MS but it said I'll get the money back when I made the purchase. I thought it was automatic and electronic. Oh well... guess that's $70 I'll never see.
    Never kick a fresh **** on a hot day.

    Home Setup: Sony VPL-VW85 Projo, 92" Stewart Firehawk, Pioneer Elite SC-65, PS3, RTi12 fronts, CSi5, FXi6 rears, RTi6 surround backs, RTi4 height, MFW-15 Subwoofer.

    Car Setup: OEM Radio, RF 360.2v2, Polk SR6500 quad amped off 4 Xtant 1.1 100w mono amps, Xtant 6.1 to run an eD 13av.2, all Stinger wiring and Raammat deadener.
  • danger boy
    danger boy Posts: 15,722
    edited February 2009
    I followed every rule to a T with the cashback program. i left nothing to chance.. I will email them.. last time I emailed them, they were prompt in responding. I still have some hope.. just bugs the shite out of me that after waiting 60 days.. it says FAILED
    PolkFest 2012, who's going>?
    Vancouver, Canada Sept 30th, 2012 - Madonna concert :cheesygrin:
  • hoosier21
    hoosier21 Posts: 4,411
    edited February 2009
    hmm, I was lucky, got I all my cash back. 4 ebay auctions, for a totla of 678.00 cash back.
    Dodd - Battery Preamp
    Monarchy Audio SE100 Delux - mono power amps
    Sony DVP-NS999ES - SACD player
    ADS 1230 - Polk SDA 2B
    DIY Stereo Subwoofer towers w/(4) 12 drivers each
    Crown K1 - Subwoofer amp
    Outlaw ICBM - crossover
    Beringher BFD - sub eq

    Where is the remote? Where is the $%#$% remote!

    "I've always been mad, I know I've been mad, like the most of us have...very hard to explain why you're mad, even if you're not mad..."
  • treitz3
    treitz3 Posts: 18,987
    edited February 2009
    It doesn't matter what product I have purchased or where. Every single damn refund I have ever mailed in, qualified for or turned in was not honored. I have just made up my mind that based upon many multiple experiences concerning rebates that basically I [the consumer] am being lied to about the promise of getting $$$ back just to move the product.

    Over my life, I probably have racked up well over 1K worth of rebates and not a single one has come to me, even after extensive follow-ups. Now that I have accepted that fact, [at least it's a "fact" to me] I haven't been upset about rebates and follow ups because I don't purchase items that claim to have a refund unless it's an instant refund at the POS.
    ~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~
  • Motzart
    Motzart Posts: 1,075
    edited February 2009
    Opppssss gooffed here! :o

    Yamaha RX-A710 90Watt 7.1
    Mains: RTi A1's Center: CS150 Sats: RT15i's Sub: Velodyne DPS-10
    Music CD: Sony CDP-CE375 5 Disk
    HD TV: Vizio 42" LCD 1080p E420VO
    Blu-Ray: Sony BDP-S350
    DVD: Sony DVP-NC665P 5 Disk
    AV Rack: Sanus Euro EFAB-II Audio Base x2 EFAS-II Audio Expansion Shelf x4
    Cables Used: Monster Cable HPD Sony HDMI DLCHE18W
    Phones: Sennheiser HD280 Pro
  • Motzart
    Motzart Posts: 1,075
    edited February 2009
    Mine is still pending....purchase date of Dec 6th.
    Feb 6th I'll see.

    I hate rebates but thought I'd give this a try.
    One of the reasons PPL didn't like Circuit City.
    I have NEVER got a rebate returned to me ever from anything I have bought!
    Why can't they just give you the rebate right off the item there?
    I'll tell you why......cuz you fill out all the info to get the rebate and they sell your info.
    Then you get all this useless crap AD stuff in the mail.

    Thus they make a tidy sum off your info they sell.....so IF you get the rebate it's peanuts compared to what they made selling your info!

    *****SORRY FOR THE DOUBLE POST!*****
    Dunno what happened there? :rolleyes:

    Yamaha RX-A710 90Watt 7.1
    Mains: RTi A1's Center: CS150 Sats: RT15i's Sub: Velodyne DPS-10
    Music CD: Sony CDP-CE375 5 Disk
    HD TV: Vizio 42" LCD 1080p E420VO
    Blu-Ray: Sony BDP-S350
    DVD: Sony DVP-NC665P 5 Disk
    AV Rack: Sanus Euro EFAB-II Audio Base x2 EFAS-II Audio Expansion Shelf x4
    Cables Used: Monster Cable HPD Sony HDMI DLCHE18W
    Phones: Sennheiser HD280 Pro
  • danger boy
    danger boy Posts: 15,722
    edited February 2009
    probably similar to why some stores ask you for your telephone number.. so they can sell it later to advertisers in bulk. I refuse to give my phone number to a store.. how silly is that to even ask? :confused:
    PolkFest 2012, who's going>?
    Vancouver, Canada Sept 30th, 2012 - Madonna concert :cheesygrin:
  • treitz3
    treitz3 Posts: 18,987
    edited February 2009
    That's when you have the $25-$50 an hour phone sex hotline # ready. Just give them that #. That'll teach 'em to ask for your # once they start to see their phone bill.

    :D
    ~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~
  • inspiredsports
    inspiredsports Posts: 5,501
    edited February 2009
    100% of mine became available on the 60th day after purchase
    VTL ST50 w/mods / RCA6L6GC / TlfnknECC801S
    Conrad Johnson PV-5 w/mods
    TT Conrad Johnson Sonographe SG3 Oak / Sumiko LMT / Grado Woodbody Platinum / Sumiko PIB2 / The Clamp
    Musical Fidelity A1 CDPro/ Bada DD-22 Tube CDP / Conrad Johnson SD-22 CDP
    Tuners w/mods Kenwood KT5020 / Fisher KM60
    MF x-DAC V8, HAInfo NG27
    Herbies Ti-9 / Vibrapods / MIT Shotgun AC1 IEC's / MIT Shotgun 2 IC's / MIT Shotgun 2 Speaker Cables
    PS Audio Cryo / PowerPort Premium Outlets / Exact Power EP15A Conditioner
    Walnut SDA 2B TL /Oak SDA SRS II TL (Sonicaps/Mills/Cardas/Custom SDA ICs / Dynamat Extreme / Larry's Rings/ FSB-2 Spikes
    NAD SS rigs w/mods
    GIK panels
  • mmadden28
    mmadden28 Posts: 4,283
    edited February 2009
    When I built my computer, I bought everything that had a rebate attached to it. I saved a bundle. I would say at least 10 different rebates if not more. I stayed on top of them every step of the way, kept scans of the forms and detailed track of the status. I got all of the money back except one because they went out of business (ClubPC or something--it was only $12).

    I personally hate rebates-They are evil. I only really like the instant rebates. To me it was worth it though since I did them all at the same time-but I avoid them at all costs any other time because I know I will forget about it.
    ____________________
    This post is a natural product. The slight variations in spelling and grammar enhance its individual character and beauty and in no way are to be considered flaws or defects.

    HT:Onkyo 805, Emotiva XPA-5, Mitsu 52" 1080p DLP / polkaudio RTi12, CSIa6, FXi3, uPro4K
    2-chnl : Pio DV-46AV (SACD), Dodd ELP, Emotiva XPA-1s, XPA-2, Odyssey Khartago, LSi9, SDA-SRS 2 :cool:, SB Duet, MSB & Monarchy DACs, Yamaha PX3 TT, SAE Tuner...
    Pool: Atrium 60's/45's
  • treitz3
    treitz3 Posts: 18,987
    edited February 2009
    .........and when you don't forget about it, how much time do you spend trying to get it? Would that equate to less or more than what you would put in [per hour] at work?

    Which leads me to the question.....is it really worth it? The stress, hassle, documentation, followup?
    ~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~
  • mmadden28
    mmadden28 Posts: 4,283
    edited February 2009
    That's why I did them all at the same time and avoid the onsies twosies.
    I fill out the form (triple reading the fine print), scan the form. Put it and the UPS code in the envelope (which I have a template on the computer to quickly print), seal it, postmark it (to show date) and mail it off. When I get some notification that they received the forms I move the scanned form to a folder called received. When they send me a check, I move it to a folder called paid. Every so often I check the folders to see if any hadn't had any activity. If I did this often I would probably put them in my calendar with reminders.

    IIRC, I saved $500-$600 with those rebates for my computer-It was well worth it to me. Probably was no more than an hour, maybe two, total and I certainly don't make that much per hour.

    Otherwise, for me the rebate has to be significant enough for me to bother. A $2 rebate it not worth it. A $10 rebate is probably not even worth it. I think once it gets above $30 it makes it all the more worthwhile.
    ____________________
    This post is a natural product. The slight variations in spelling and grammar enhance its individual character and beauty and in no way are to be considered flaws or defects.

    HT:Onkyo 805, Emotiva XPA-5, Mitsu 52" 1080p DLP / polkaudio RTi12, CSIa6, FXi3, uPro4K
    2-chnl : Pio DV-46AV (SACD), Dodd ELP, Emotiva XPA-1s, XPA-2, Odyssey Khartago, LSi9, SDA-SRS 2 :cool:, SB Duet, MSB & Monarchy DACs, Yamaha PX3 TT, SAE Tuner...
    Pool: Atrium 60's/45's
  • danger boy
    danger boy Posts: 15,722
    edited February 2009
    hoosier21 wrote: »
    hmm, I was lucky, got I all my cash back. 4 ebay auctions, for a totla of 678.00 cash back.

    thanks Russ for making me feel even worse ;)



    JK. hey glad you got all that was due to come your way. :)
    PolkFest 2012, who's going>?
    Vancouver, Canada Sept 30th, 2012 - Madonna concert :cheesygrin:
  • SBrown712
    SBrown712 Posts: 202
    edited February 2009
    I got about $164 back from Live Search on an e-bay purchase. Seems like it was right at the 60 day mark too. I got emails to give me status from LS and I even got an email from paypal that the money had been deposited.
    Like someone said above, make sure you follow the directions to the letter. The only time I've been screwed on a promo was by Amazon.
  • danger boy
    danger boy Posts: 15,722
    edited February 2009
    I think I may have found the problem.

    My paypal account had a different email address set than what my Ebay account email address is. hoping this solves the problem.

    I have a ticket with MSN Cashback right now going.
    PolkFest 2012, who's going>?
    Vancouver, Canada Sept 30th, 2012 - Madonna concert :cheesygrin:
  • Early B.
    Early B. Posts: 7,900
    edited February 2009
    danger boy wrote: »
    I think I may have found the problem.

    My paypal account had a different email address set than what my Ebay account email address is. hoping this solves the problem.

    I have a ticket with MSN Cashback right now going.

    Good. I hope it works out for you.

    I got a $118 cashback last week from an ebay purchase, but I'm waiting on $68 that I'm owed. I got the dreaded FAILED message, too. Not sure why.
    HT/2-channel Rig: Sony 50” LCD TV; Toshiba HD-A2 DVD player; Emotiva LMC-1 pre/pro; Rogue Audio M-120 monoblocks (modded); Placette RVC; Emotiva LPA-1 amp; Bada HD-22 tube CDP (modded); VMPS Tower II SE (fronts); DIY Clearwave Dynamic 4CC (center); Wharfedale Opus Tri-Surrounds (rear); and VMPS 215 sub

    "God grooves with tubes."
  • mmadden28
    mmadden28 Posts: 4,283
    edited February 2009
    danger boy wrote: »
    I think I may have found the problem.

    My paypal account had a different email address set than what my Ebay account email address is. hoping this solves the problem.

    I have a ticket with MSN Cashback right now going.

    Oohh could be my issue too. I changed my PP email addy not too long ago. Of course my old email addy should still work on there, but maybe they're only looking at the primary. Or the one I used with the purchase :confused::confused:
    Thanks for the update and GL with your finally getting resolution.
    ____________________
    This post is a natural product. The slight variations in spelling and grammar enhance its individual character and beauty and in no way are to be considered flaws or defects.

    HT:Onkyo 805, Emotiva XPA-5, Mitsu 52" 1080p DLP / polkaudio RTi12, CSIa6, FXi3, uPro4K
    2-chnl : Pio DV-46AV (SACD), Dodd ELP, Emotiva XPA-1s, XPA-2, Odyssey Khartago, LSi9, SDA-SRS 2 :cool:, SB Duet, MSB & Monarchy DACs, Yamaha PX3 TT, SAE Tuner...
    Pool: Atrium 60's/45's