I am sick of my system! A new direction

ben62670

Well I have played the SDA game for quite some time now. I have had a blast, and have learned a lot through trial and error. I finally tweaked my system the way I wanted it, and then EarlyB has me build him a center channel speaker. It sounded awesome, and the components were not too expensive either. I have heard many different speaker, but when I returned home I was pleased to fire up my system and all the envy just disappeared. One of my favorite speakers to audition was a set of Focal's with the beryllium tweeter. They were spectacular in the imaging, tonality, but were thin in the mids, and bass. Then Face tells me about these awesome speakers that used the Vifa tweeters, and I took a look at them. $5500 for a two way with <$200 worth of drivers, and the only XO component was a cap on the tweeter. Don't get me wrong. I still love my big SDA's, but they just don't belong in a room less than 24'x24'. I am tired of have to run them at 90db just to get them to play right. I am running six channels of amplification to run them. About 1800 watts total. Well Face and I figured out what drivers were used in those speakers, and I decided to build the smallest SDA's. I am tickled about the SQ of them over the Polk MW's. I finished them last night, and I stayed up going through my collection of music till 5:30 this morning. I am totally rethinking audio now. I am going passive on the pre instead of high gain. I am modding my equipment to make it play nicer at low levels. The ape coffins are going in a room for storage. I thought I would never see the day when I would want to abandon them, but SQ, and not SPL is my new goal:) I will post soon when I get my design together.
Ben


Edit: Most that crap in the pics is going to disappear. I only want the pre to be in the room, and the TT. It will still be in use, but I am tired of the "look at all my equipment" kinda setup. Its a distraction, clutter, and ghetto looking at best IMHO.

beardog03

keep us posted !

I am all about SQ...full, solid sound at lower volumes

I sometime turn the input levels way down and the volume way up just to see if it sounds better...it does sometimes

ben62670

I don't know what happened, but when I built those little mini SDA's something just clicked. The SDA effect was there at a low volume totally wrap around, and real clean. I was playing with the SPL meter, and I turned it on. I set the range, it didn't register, turned the range again, it didn't register, and lowered it again. I was thoroughly enjoying listening to them at levels peaking around 80db, and averaging like 75db. This is unheard of for me. Usually I am running at least 90db, and way up from there. I want tubes now high, and low:eek: I actually want the speakers to look real nice too:)

Conradicles

Ben...Let me borrow you SDA's...my Man Garage is about 30' x 30' x 12' and they will sound killer if you loan me the proper ampification...just kidding.

ben62670

That would be fun, but you would need some serious room treatment in a garage. I was thinking they would be great in a 300 seat church;)

Conradicles

No kidding.

treitz3

ben62670 wrote: »

ape coffins are going in a room for storage.

.....:eek:

Early B.

Damn, I love this thread! It's music to my ears.

Ben -- this change in attitude is a sign of the times, dude. You're getting older, that's all. No more obnoxiously loud music for you. That's for the young ones.

Don't abandon those huge **** speakers. At a minimum, keep them in play for HT. No speaker on the planet is gonna compete with them for HT. Also, I said to you before that once you change out gear for the big SDA's, you'll be surprised at how good they sound.

ben62670

So Early when are you coming over? Do you have any spare anti bio-tics? I accidentally drilled a hole in my hand(3/16 bit), and it is getting infected. Luckily not much meat came out, and a couple opening and closings of the hand sucked the meat back in(just a small string of it). I think I got most of the debris out, but it is starting to hurt, and the veins are starting to turn a little more blue:o

dkg999

Ben - you need to set back and relax, and quit injuring yourself. That ****'s hard on a person and takes its toll! If you want SQ at low SPL, then check out Magnepans or other planer/electostats. One of my favorites is a dark room and Black Sabbath playing at low volume on the maggies! It can be very eerie!

ben62670

I did get to play with some little planers and was very pleased, but I am still going SDA with much better mids and tweeters than the originals. They won't be very large, or reach insane levels, but I am on a quest for a serious upgrade in SQ. The MW65xx's were the speakers that took me to a higher level than the big store stuff, but after hearing other speakers I have given up on them as HiFi drivers. There are many drivers out there now that weren't available when the monitors came out, and the SDA's ended up using them. I know there were improvements with the 6510, 6503, and 6511, but there is still a lot of room for improvement. Newer drivers are very happy in much smaller boxes, have stiffer cones, flatter response, and better SQ for not much money.
Ben

I may get one of these so I can't hold my project in one hand, and operate a drill with the other:o

lightman1

Ben.. It's time to complete the intervention...SPL does not equal SQ....

Early B.

ben62670 wrote: »

So Early when are you coming over? Do you have any spare anti bio-tics? I accidentally drilled a hole in my hand(3/16 bit), and it is getting infected. Luckily not much meat came out, and a couple opening and closings of the hand sucked the meat back in(just a small string of it). I think I got most of the debris out, but it is starting to hurt, and the veins are starting to turn a little more blue:o

There's no 'effin' way I'm coming over. You're too damn dangerous. I don't want to be on the receiving end of one of your "accidents." To be truthful, I was scarded to death the last time I was at your house 'cause you were using power tools all day.

BTW -- I don't do antibiotics. I use the natural stuff. Garlic especially. Google it.

ben62670

Early B. wrote: »

There's no 'effin' way I'm coming over. You're too damn dangerous. I don't want to be on the receiving end of one of your "accidents." To be truthful, I was scarded to death the last time I was at your house 'cause you were using power tools all day.

LOL I am choking over here. Is that why you kept disappearing every time I picked up a saw, router, or ran the table saw:D I was joking when I asked if you were squeamish about seeing blood.

Seriously you have to hear this. I have never enjoyed listening to tunes at a low level. I am listening to some Gordon Lightfoot at 55db most vocals. I have never been able to hear a speaker that was this clear across the full range minus the bass down low(yes I know they exist). Seriously you gotta check it out;) I am ditching the active gain stages, and going passive. You know how sensitive my big SDA's were. Just a tap on the remote, and it went from I can barely hear it to too loud. Well I am back to the tunes. I will sleep next week:)
Ben

TouchOfEvil

soooo when do we get pics?

ben62670

It's a mess, but here you go. I am doing some serious rearranging this weekend.

TouchOfEvil

Those look nice. I like em.

ben62670

I made them small and sealed. They are the same size as monitor 4.6s(17" H x 8-1/2" W x 11" D), but 1 inch deeper;) The monitor's grill fits the design perfect. I wanted something that could be used in the bedroom, or an office on a shelf. They of coarse don't dig deep, but they do have punchy bass. If you have full size speakers that dig low you know some material is missing. It is a bookshelf;)
Ben

leroyjr1

What kind of tweeters are those in the MINI SDA's ?

mmadden28

ben62670 wrote: »

So Early when are you coming over? Do you have any spare anti bio-tics? I accidentally drilled a hole in my hand(3/16 bit), and it is getting infected. Luckily not much meat came out, and a couple opening and closings of the hand sucked the meat back in(just a small string of it). I think I got most of the debris out, but it is starting to hurt, and the veins are starting to turn a little more blue:o

You aint right dude. :D

mmadden28

ben62670 wrote: »

I don't know what happened, but when I built those little mini SDA's something just clicked. The SDA effect was there at a low volume totally wrap around, and real clean. I was playing with the SPL meter, and I turned it on. I set the range, it didn't register, turned the range again, it didn't register, and lowered it again. I was thoroughly enjoying listening to them at levels peaking around 80db, and averaging like 75db. This is unheard of for me. Usually I am running at least 90db, and way up from there. I want tubes now high, and low:eek: I actually want the speakers to look real nice too:)

I think I know exactly what you're talking about...Although I don't have SDA's, something happened recently with my HT rig that's hard to explain, but it just sounds so good now, even at lower volumes. Its like the sounds (or voices? :rolleyes: ) are coming from right inside my head.

Its either the pulling the mains out a few inches into the room, or the fact that I updated the firmware in my onk 805 (which set everything back to factory defaults) and I can't find the mic to redo the audyssey setup, which might actually bemaking it sound better then when 'optimized', or if its because i'm not attenuating all of my speaker levels down too many dB's (the way it was pre update for some reason???), or if its because I moved a chair in front of one of my speakers (only place it could go-had to put the tree up).

Bottom line something happened-and I'm really liking it. I said it in other threads that my original plan was to 'move' the whole HT rig to the new HT room when it was built, but I just don't want to do that now. Seems I finally have some HT rig synergy going on. :cool::cool:. I'm really diggin commercials even-they just sound so good-its hard to explain, but I think many here know what I'm talking about.

mmadden28

ben62670 wrote: »

...The ape coffins are going in a room for storage.....

Hehe---lol---'Ape Coffins'. I don't care who ya 'er-that's funny right thare.

mmadden28

Soooo, DIY Mini SDA's huh?
hmmm

Can a pair of LSi9's be made into some Mini SDA's?

ben62670

leroyjr1 wrote: »

What kind of tweeters are those in the MINI SDA's ?

Some Alesis that I bought on clearance. I got them for surround, and center duty. I didn't want to take the Vifa's out of the big ones expecting the little SDA's to sound decent, but not worthy of main rig listening. Well the big boys are heading into a spare room, and I am pulling the Vifa's:) I just figured out the cabs for the next project. They will be 44"h, 16"w, and 12" deep. Where my speakers are now is intrusive. You have to walk around the the big ones to cross the room. That is part of why the speakers are going to be so shallow. The box calls for 3.3cubic feet in a vented design. It will dig into the 30's -3db. I went 44 high well because I like 44's. Also I do not want to have stands. I never understood the concept of having a monitor, and having to put it on a stand I figured out all the cuts, and I am going to have to use almost 2 sheets of MDF. I want this box very tight, and solidly braced. The extra work is worth it. I have played, and now I am very confident(laughs to himself) that this is the final set of SDA's that I am going to run as my main system.

mmadden28
...Bottom line something happened-and I'm really liking it. I said it in other threads that my original plan was to 'move' the whole HT rig to the new HT room when it was built, but I just don't want to do that now. Seems I finally have some HT rig synergy going on. . I'm really diggin commercials even-they just sound so good-its hard to explain, but I think many here know what I'm talking about.

I was chatting with a couple other Polkies today, and todays topic was "your room is part of your speaker enclosure" After having my same system in 4 different locations with the same gear I have really seen the effects a room can have on SQ. I know that my situation has kinda pushed this to the extreme, but it is a valid point. A few good examples came up like subs designed for a car. They are built with the idea that the car is part of the enclosure. I had a bandpass box in my 68 Bronco, and with the top off you literally could hear no bass. Another one that came up was some Carver Amazings that were in a smaller room. The bass was severely lacking. In a large room it was very full and deep. Placement is huge with some speakers, and hopefully I will soon get my learn on with room treatments:)

leroyjr1

Ben do you ever just sit back and relax?

ben62670

mmadden28 wrote: »

Soooo, DIY Mini SDA's huh?
hmmm

Can a pair of LSi9's be made into some Mini SDA's?

Both drivers are 4ohms. It is much cheaper to build than modify LSI's. I have mentioned may times that Polk should make some small SDA's in a box like the nines. They did end up doing that at PF08:)

leroyjr1 wrote: »

Ben do you ever just sit back and relax?

I did from 10pm till 5:30 am yesterday:) When I get into a project I can't stop. I could go to bed, but I would not be able to sleep:(
Dang its 3:30 already. I have to get up with the girls in 3 hours!
GN
Ben

mmadden28

ben62670 wrote: »

..It is much cheaper to build than modify LSI's....

Why's that?

ben62670

mmadden28 wrote: »

Why's that?

A pair of finished cabs is $200.
Drivers less than $200 for very nice drivers.
The XO point is fairly high, and is pretty simple which keeps cost down.
You can build a very sweet set for under $700, and you could make a set for around $500 that would be very very nice.
Figure in the value of 9's, and the mods needed it just isn't worth it. Also Polk doesnt have an 8ohm driver to match the LSI driver. SDA doesn't work well without having 4 and 8 ohm arrays.

fossy

damn it now my speakers don't sound as good as they did b4 i read this post:D:D:D

Ben -- maybe add on custom built speakers to your already successful line of audiophile products ???:cool::p:cool:

ben62670 wrote: »

A pair of finished cabs is $200.
Drivers less than $200 for very nice drivers.
The XO point is fairly high, and is pretty simple which keeps cost down.
You can build a very sweet set for under $700, and you could make a set for around $500 that would be very very nice.
Figure in the value of 9's, and the mods needed it just isn't worth it. Also Polk doesnt have an 8ohm driver to match the LSI driver. SDA doesn't work well without having 4 and 8 ohm arrays.

ben62670

Polk has the patient for SDA's, and they have been very gracious with sharing their info on the design. I don't mind helping others build something, but I am not going to be selling SDA type speakers.
Ben

organ

Sounds like an adio nervious breakdown:). Nice job on the build. They look great.
If you're looking for designs, check out the single driver Fostex. You can build killer stuff with them. In the right cabinet they sound phenomenal and have extremely high resolution in the mids. Reason I"m suggesting you the Fostex is because you're looking to build something that plays good on low level and you're going the zen route on the signal path by going passive. High eff Fostex love simple and clean circuits.