$14B auto bailout dies in Senate

wizzy

Jstas wrote: »

If Ford has the money to get it to market that is. If Chrysler and GM go under, Ford will likely fall from the fallout.

I wonder if the opposite would happen. People would see Ford as a stronger, smarter company and abandon GM/Chrysler, thereby going to Ford which would in turn increase their revenues - making them stronger.

MacLeod

Also remember that the Big 3 are paying BILLIONS every year in pensions. I remember reading somewhere that GM has more resources tied up in pension plans than they do building cars!!!!!

I dont blame the unions for this to a point. Management signed those contracts with the unions because at the time it was working. Now the market simply wont support these contracts but the unions would rather be unemployed then take a pay cut.

I personally think it would be ok for the Big 3 to file bankruptcy. Then they would be free of all the union contracts and could start over and be profitable once again.

treitz3

MacLeod wrote: »

I personally think it would be ok for the Big 3 to file bankruptcy. Then they would be free of all the union contracts and could start over and be profitable once again.

For them yes it would [to a point] be beneficial to go bankrupt. From my understanding, the taxpayers would be responsible from that point to pay for the legacy costs since they are government guaranteed. That's an expensive proposition.

I'm not challenging you bro'.;) I'm just pointing out things as I understand it.

ohskigod

you know, just t break this down simply? why did we give over 100 billion to AIG but we wont loan 15B to our big 3 ??!

uh....huh ?!?!?!

of course, why the Unions though promising to take a wage/benefit cut, but not at a specified time was gonna fly I'll never know either.

lots of dumb people sitting at these negotiating tables.. :rolleyes:

MacLeod

The government would take over the pensions that are out now and Im ok with that. That would be a lot cheaper than the 20 billion or whatever it is now. But Congress wants CONTROL of the auto industry thats why theyre doing this.

Its just like the bail out for the financial industry. Rather than pony up nearly a trillion dollars (!!) why not just say "any US citizen with a mortgage, the government is going to give you $200,000." That would be cheaper than 700 billion but then the government wouldnt be in control of anything. Thats what the scariest - there are a lot of businesses out there that the government has interest in and now theyre wanting to take over the auto industry.

THE GOVERNMENT CANT DELIVER THE MAIL!!! For God's sake, how are they going to run the auto industry?!

markmarc

Taking over the pension plan for 20-30 years until all those entitled to it would rise to far more than 15 billion I'm betting.

I've said this in other threads the big problem with bankruptcy is that someone has to finance it. From what i've heard that would amount to 70-100 billion for all three. In normal times 20-30 groups could be found in a heartbeat to do that. But this ain't normal times. Their are two, maybe three groups that might have the funds to do so, but they won't because it would drain them of capital that they would rather put into several smaller groups. That leaves us taxpayers to fund the bankruptcy. The end result, the gov't sides with management over workers making the gov't anti-worker. That won't happen, the political cost is too great.

The idea of giving everyone a check cashable only at a big three dealership is interesting, but dangerous in the long run. it would solve short term car sales at the expense of long term recovery as two years from now no one would need a car.

Instead, how about giving a $25k gift check to every Iraq/Afghan veteran's family that could be redeemed for a vehicle, for each tour of duty. That would move cars off of lots, make money for dealers, and truly thank our veterans for their service. It wouldn't be enough overall, but it's a start.

LessisNevermore

ohskigod wrote: »

you know, just t break this down simply? why did we give over 100 billion to AIG but we wont loan 15B to our big 3 ??!

uh....huh ?!?!?!

of course, why the Unions though promising to take a wage/benefit cut, but not at a specified time was gonna fly I'll never know either.

lots of dumb people sitting at these negotiating tables.. :rolleyes:

I wonder why none of the bankers are being requested to accept huge pay cuts........

I wondered the same thing about the UAW pay cuts, until I read that they DID take a huge cut to their benefits, and caps on new hire pay, in re-negotiations in 2007.

treitz3

LessisNevermore wrote: »

I wonder why none of the bankers are being requested to accept huge pay cuts........

Or why they didn't have to go in front our "elected" officials and beg for money. Some of them even didn't even need the money but they got WAY more than what the automobile industry is asking for [almost 9fold] anyway. The only cuts I've heard about are the "golden parachutes" and the bonuses for poor performance. What?

It's a sad day in America. That's for sure. The money trail speaks wonders as to who is corrupt. Everyday we are moving closer and closer to......well, you fill in the blank. :eek:

It ain't pretty either. This is not what Americans have fought for and that's a damn shame.

treitz3

markmarc wrote: »

Instead, how about giving a $25k gift check to every Iraq/Afghan veteran's family that could be redeemed for a vehicle, for each tour of duty. That would move cars off of lots, make money for dealers, and truly thank our veterans for their service. It wouldn't be enough overall, but it's a start.

I like you no matter what Matthew Polk says! :eek: Great idea seriously. They deserve it. All veterans do IMO.