New rig: RTi A9s and more

Ron Temple

30 watts is plenty to drive those speakers to spirited levels. It's the dynamic headroom gained that handles peaks cleanly and effortlessly that provides the biggest uptick in SQ. A 10db peak requires 10x the power. Your Emo can deliver that, your HK can't. You'll also hear the difference at the bottom...better definition, punch and weight.

danlarson

Rextab-- if your speakers are 20-200 watts, I wouldn't spend money on an amp if you have a high-current amp like it looks like you have.

mmadden28

I'm very happy with my setup. Similar to yours except I didn't do 7.1 (yet). You still can though, just leave the rears on the AVR with the rest on the XPA-5.

New speakers might require some break in time so don't pass judgment too quick if something's not quite right or if they sound to bright.
Play around with speaker placement-I am pretty sure that when I moved my RTi12's just a few inches forward into the room so that the front edge was now a few inches in front of the entertainment center as opposed to the front edge lined up with it.
Also toe them in a bit. I've found that the left speaker aimed behind my head- almost like it was aimed at or just to the left of my left ear (when sitting)-same with the right---has worked best for me (so far)
I'm running them crossed over at 80Hz with a sub, but I might try a little lower when I my new sub in the mix.
Have fun with it.

As far as the Outlaws? If you decide not to send them back, you coudl alsways put those on reaer speaker duty, or perhaps for an unpowered Zone 2 in another room of of your HK.

nm4710

Dan, you're going to be in heaven. My guess is that the UPA-7 would have been more than enough...but with the XPA-5 you will be guaranteed to have enough power to maximize the potential of your A9s.

Personally I think you are wise to invest in the amp b/c it will allow the thousands invested in the speakers to be worthwhile. Now just sit back until your amp arrives, then bring the walls down!

ZOOPDOOP22

I am very excited to hear the results as well. That is the amp I am considering in the future! (jealousy)

cfrizz

Dan, ALL speakers benefit from more power. I had a 110wpc Denon receiver driving my 18 yr old Polk RTA-8T's and I thought it sounded great. Until I heard them with a 205wpc Parasound amp I didn't know what I was missing. NO receiver will ever be able to match the power put out by a dedicated amp.

I now have a 405wpc amp driving all of my speakers and it sounds terrific. I didn't notice an increase in sound quality going from the Parasound to the Sunfire, (except for the back speakers which were the last to be amped) but that was because my speakers are getting all that they need whenever they need it.

So if Rextab decided to get an XPA for his speakers, he would notice a significant improvement as well.

danlarson wrote: »

Rextab-- if your speakers are 20-200 watts, I wouldn't spend money on an amp if you have a high-current amp like it looks like you have.

Montoya

Can't you bi-amp the xpa-5 for the A9s and use the leftover channel for center duty and power the rear with your AVR. I'm looking at buying that same amp and really am interested in your review of the amps in question.

danlarson

Holy cow, I could bi-amp. If I don't, it does throw more power into all 3 channels, which is another great option, and what the emo guy recommended. If I bi-amp, do I just split the RCA? Or do I need a crossover? (I think the a9 has an internal crossover...$

I think I'll just skip the outlaw amps altogether. That amp is $100 off with free shipping until Christmas. From my shopping so far, you can't go wrong with that amp.

mmadden28

If you want to biamp, just split the RCAs and remove the jumper on the speakers. No external crossover needed.

Just keep in mind that a large % of a movie's soundtrack (in 5.1 and up) is in the center channel. But that may not be as important to you since your priority is music.

I suggest you try it both ways-bi-amped and non bi-amped to see what you like best, and if you can even tell the difference. Let us know.

danlarson

I just sent this to Polk and Emotiva, if you have done this and have an answer, please let me know. I'll also post my replied from Polk/Emotiva:

I’ve asked a few config questions for my new RTi A9s—and I finally arrived at purchasing an Emotiva XPA-5 amplifier (I also bought 3 Outlaw monoblocks, but am planning on returning them to Outlaw).

The Emotiva XPA-5 amplifier (200 watts x5) has the following specs. I am hooking this up from pre-amp outs on my Harmon Kardon to my RTiA9 mains and also the CSiA6 center channel.

Would you recommend bi-amping the RTiA9s, sending 200 watts per each input to each A9, or would you recommend just sending 250 watts to each channel? The a6 center is only rated for 200 watts and I don’t want to blow it.

Emotiva XPA-5 specs:
• Number of channels: 5
• Amplifier Class: Short signal path A/B
• Output design: Triple Darlington with Toshiba output stages
• Differential Drive: Dual Differential input
• Types of inputs: Both Balanced (XLR) and Un-balanced (RCA)
• Type of outputs: Audiophile quality 5 way binding post
• Display type: Digital status indicators
• 200 watts RMS/channel into 8 ohms, all channels driven
o 5 channels - 8 ohm = 200 watts per channel
o 4 channels - 8 ohm = 230 watts per channel
o 3 channels - 8 ohm = 250 watts per channel
o 2 channels - 8 ohm = 275 watts per channel
o 1 channel - 8 ohm = 300 watts per channel

mmadden28

The way I understand it, you're not really sending the full 'wattage' to the speakers or the highs/lows. Its not like providing 240VAC to a device that uses 120VAC.
The speaker will 'pull' the current that it needs. You're just making more power available, especially for dynamic peaks and such so that the driver is not starved for power at any point.
I look at it like a high performance car, you have more power available when you need it. So when you press that pedal to the metal, the car responds quickly and powerfully and without hesitation.
Just having that higher performace power available, doesn;t mean its getting used all the time, you can still drive that car at 15mph through a school zone no problem.

Of course that's the way I understand it, I could be wrong in my interpretation.

danlarson

Mmadden-- so would you recommend bi-amping or not? Yes, I understand you're not sending the full wattage, unless you're blowing your eardrums... so sending the most watts to my A9s would be ideal, I THINK, so I get the best audio for music. One module at 200 watts should be plenty for the center A6. But I don't know if it would match up right between the centers and the mains.

curved

I would try it both ways That makes this hobby all the more fun!!

comfortablycurt

Sounds like you're gonna have a damn nice setup there when all's said and done. Enjoy it...I'm jealous...lol

Hilbert

I recommend buying a couple of XPA-1s for the fronts and using the -5 for the remaining speakers.

We now return you to the posts that contain useful information...

danlarson

Hilbert, will you sponsor my audio rig? Shoot, I'll even paint your name on the side if you buy me a few XPA-1s.

Hilbert

danlarson wrote: »

Hilbert, will you sponsor my audio rig? Shoot, I'll even paint your name on the side if you buy me a few XPA-1s.

Sorry, can't afford it. But I will share with you my secret for financial success: Powerball.

Imagine corporate sponsorships of audio rigs. You'd have to promise to throw humongous parties.

mmadden28

Hilbert wrote: »

I recommend buying a couple of XPA-1s for the fronts and using the -5 for the remaining speakers.

We now return you to the posts that contain useful information...

Stop that! :mad:




I've actually been considering it :eek::eek::rolleyes:;)

mmadden28

danlarson wrote: »

Mmadden-- so would you recommend bi-amping or not? Yes, I understand you're not sending the full wattage, unless you're blowing your eardrums... so sending the most watts to my A9s would be ideal, I THINK, so I get the best audio for music. One module at 200 watts should be plenty for the center A6. But I don't know if it would match up right between the centers and the mains.

I haven't tried bi-amping them myself (yet ). I haven't even tried the amps in the Onk yet for comparison sake. I will eventually-When I get time...:o

As Curved said-try it both ways---
If you hear a difference?--more ammo to keep it that way or tweak even more.
If you don't hear a difference? Well then you can save some money in the long run and be happy for less.

If you calibrate the system properly, the unequally amped speakers should match up fine sound level-wise. Assuming, of course, that they are all driven by amps of equal dB gain. I believe all of the XPA series are the same (IIRC 29 or 32 dB-its one of them) so you can mix and match them.

danlarson

I got the following reply from Nick at Emotiva. Yes, bi-amp! Which is cool because I don't have to buy anything more (besides cable)-- I already have the spare modules in the 5 channel amp.

With that many drivers in your speakers, I would recommend bi-amping your mains and single amping your center. This will allow your mains to work easier and up to their full potential.

Best Regards,
Nick
Emotiva Audio Corp.

danlarson

And I got this reply from Ken at Polk:

Thanks for contacting us. In my opinion, bi-amping a speaker works to improve the dynamic range capability of the speaker. It tends to give the system a feeling of effortlessness, especially when playing complex musical passages or movie soundtracks. When a speaker is properly bi-amplified the result is a feeling that the system is “keeping pace” with the demands.
I hope this is helpful information.
Regards, Ken, Polk Audio

curved

I would still try it both ways.....like I said before, that's what makes this sooooooooooo fun!!

curved

Do the upper posts on the A9's cover just the tweeters or tweeters and mids?

mmadden28

Assuming you use one amp for your highs and the other for the lows (as recommended in the RTi series manual), I'd be interested in the current draw of each amp when just powering the a9's with some heavy 2 ch. load. My guess is one will be less utilized than the other. And then I'd also be curious of the difference in current draw on the low side amp both when set with an 80Hz crossover and when set to large.

What are you planning to power these with? Both on the same circuit? Ded. circuit each? 15 or 20A?

danlarson

Ok-- just got the XPA-5 added. Right now I'm not bi-amping-- just sending one module to each front and center, leaving 2 channels on the amp open. But HOT DAMN does it sound good! I haven't had a chance to crank it since my daughter is asleep, but it sounds GREAT. I would NOT recommend these speakers without an amp-- which does bump up their price quite a bit... but they sound REALLY GOOD.

Regarding the XPA-5-- it's pretty sweet. No fans and its cooler than my power conditioner. It's big though-- you do need enough of a cabinet to hold it.

danlarson

Here's how I'm crossing over. I'm kinda new, so feel free to heckle.

Front (rtia9): 40hz
Center: (csiA6): 100hz
Sr l/r: 100hz
Sr back l/r: 100hz
Sub: DSW 500 pro: Sub size: 12" (I lied, it's only 10)

>>What are you planning to power these with? Both on the same circuit? Ded. circuit each? 15 or 20A?
Everything is on the same circuit-- I think it's only 15a. I'm running the amp and all the other gear from the power conditioner (against Emotiva's recommendations, but the amp cord won't reach the outlet where it's at, but it can reach the power conditioner).

cfrizz

Congrats! Now you know for yourself how much of a big difference lots of power can make!

mmadden28

danlarson wrote: »

Here's how I'm crossing over. I'm kinda new, so feel free to heckle.

Front (rtia9): 40hz
Center: (csiA6): 100hz
Sr l/r: 100hz
Sr back l/r: 100hz
Sub: DSW 500 pro: Sub size: 12" (I lied, it's only 10)

>>What are you planning to power these with? Both on the same circuit? Ded. circuit each? 15 or 20A?
Everything is on the same circuit-- I think it's only 15a. I'm running the amp and all the other gear from the power conditioner (against Emotiva's recommendations, but the amp cord won't reach the outlet where it's at, but it can reach the power conditioner).

You might want to try the RTiA9's set to Large without a sub. I think they do well in the low end, however that would just be to try it out. A separate sub is a must and will go much deeper. 80Hz is the usually recomended XO point, but you can try a couple different points to see what sounds best.

You might want to look into Room EQ Wizard (REW) at HomeTheaterShack.com. Its a free app that when combined with (at minimum) a RS SPL meter and a line input on a computer, can plot frequency and you can get a good idea where the optimum XO point should be, etc. and if the mains and sub might be canceling each other out at all (where phase comes into play)
. If you really like the REW you can advance to using it to actually EQ your setup as well. Much like the Velodyne SMS-1 does.

You also want to see how much current you're drawing with your setup. With everything on a single 15A circuit, you could potentially be restricting the full potential of the amp. Not to mention throwing a second amp on there might overload it :eek:. You might want to consider a dedicated 20A circuit at least for the amps. Oh and IMO replace the stock power cords that come with the XPA's. I personally think an 18awg power cord for an amp thats rated at 1500-1800 AC watts is a sorry thing. I'm not suggesting that you get a $50 or higher cord, but at least a stock-like thicker cable maybe 14 or 12awg.

curved

Agree with Mmadden28....you will want to get a dedicated circuit for that. At least replace the receptical with a quality one.

danlarson

Ok, I just took home a demo pair of the B&W 683. Holy freaking cow, these are amazing speakers. I am returning the RTiA9s to Amazon. Detail, detail, detail.

If you are looking for a super-loud speaker system to CRANK 90% of the time, the RTiA9 has it. But for subtlety and detail-- the B&W 683s blow them away. I am keeping the Polk sub (DSW 500 pro) but converting to B&W. There's just no comparison, and the B&W speakers are just a hair cheaper to top it off.

Sorry Polk, I tried!