7.1?

higgins79

I currently have a 5.1 setup that I am extremely happy with, however I am gettin ghte itch to add to it. I was curious to see what people think of their 7.1 systems vs 5.1 systems. If I was to then make the jump any suggestings on which speakers to add. Should i just get two fxi6s or should I get two more towers as my surrounds and maybe move my fxi5s to surround back? Anyway any thoughts or suggestions?

leroyjr1

Take in consideration your room size, and there's not many 7.1 movies out. Try it out and if your not satisfied sell them.

higgins79

ya thats true but you can do dolby digital ex and i believe dts es to simulate 7.1 plus although i am not currently utilizing the lossless audio capabilities of my ps3 and reciever it is my understanding that dts master hd can support 7.1 although i have no idea if any of the new blue rays support 7.1 vs 5.1?

Hey after reading your set up iInotice you have both a ps3 and a bdps350. Do you notice any difference in their ability to upconvert strandard dvd? Anyone better than the other.

eloplayspolo

Dark knight - released today... one of the years biggest movies... if not the biggest is only 5.1.... it is also the best quality blueray i have ever seen.... the scene where he is in china and jumps off the roof is insane.

wutadumsn23

Most Blu-Ray's I have come in to contact with have been 5.1, regardless if they are Dolby True HD, or DTS Master HD.


+1 for what Leroy said, I know it is the nature of the beast in all of us to want to upgrade, but also why overcrowd with 2 more speakers if 5.1 is, and will work fine. You won't notice much of a difference between a good 5.1 setup and a cramped 7.1 setup, IMO.

Eric W

I disagree with not being able to hear the difference between 5.1 and 7.1 or overcrowding the room with speakers or "not much is in 7.1." There is a huge difference provided you can set it up properly (seating area not backed up to the wall, same line of speakers for side surrounds and rear, at the same height, in the proper positions) even on "legacy" 5.1 Dolby Digital only soundtracks. If you have a receiver/processor that can process Dolby Digital + PLIIx (newer ones will do Dolby TrueHD/DD Plus + PLIIx), it will matrix the rear two channels in stereo (Dolby Digital EX has a mono rear channel). This isn't some simulated surround mode that sounds artificial, it creates a much more enveloping experience and sounds fantastic. With 5.1 there's a huge gap right behind you or to the side of you depending on placement. 7.1 fills this in. And with TrueHD being a "native" 7.1 format more and more movies will be released as 7.1.

My room is not that large (17' x 13.5' x 8'H) and I have two sets of side surrounds and one set of rear surrounds for a 7.1 and would not go smaller.

If you don't mind more speakers in the room and can set them up properly, I feel it is well worth the upgrade.

higgins79

My room is fairly large however I do have my seating up against the rear wall. My surrounds are on the same wall as the seating but i feel I have placed them in a position to give me what I feel is nice surround effects. I am not against there being more speakers in the room and I guess from what you (wong) are saying is that I should stick with speakers similar to what have already as surrounds. I guess I could just get a pair and try it out. there is always ebay if I dont notice a diffrence. Thx:)

Eric W

Go here and click 7.1. If you cannot locate the side speakers or the rear speakers in the proper positions then it may be worse then 5.1. Remember to calibrate properly too (distance and level settings).

http://www.dolby.com/consumer/home_entertainment/roomlayout2.html

But you're right, you won't know unless you try

maximillian

Someone else posted this a while back. But according to THX the speaker placement is:

http://www.thx.com/home/setup/speakers/51.html
http://www.thx.com/home/setup/speakers/71.html

The biggest difference is that the THX spec places the two rear surrounds right next to eachother. Has anyone tried the two setups?

Eric W

maximillian wrote: »

Someone else posted this a while back. But according to THX the speaker placement is:

http://www.thx.com/home/setup/speakers/51.html
http://www.thx.com/home/setup/speakers/71.html

The biggest difference is that the THX spec places the two rear surrounds right next to eachother. Has anyone tried the two setups?

Unless you actually have THX certified rear surrounds and a receiver/processor with THX ASA (Advanced Speaker Array), do not put 2 rear speakers so close to each other, this will give you big time comb filtering. Instead, follow the Dolby method:

http://www.dolby.com/consumer/home_entertainment/roomlayout2.html

mike0311

Eric Wong wrote: »

My room is not that large (17' x 13.5' x 8'H) and I have two sets of side surrounds and one set of rear surrounds for a 7.1 and would not go smaller.

Eric,

I currently have CSI A6, RTI A7's and FXI A4's for the side surrounds. I am just about finished with my theater. I know ideally the side surrounds should be place about even or slightly behind the seating position. The problem I have is that I went with 2 rows of theater seats. Currently I have the FXI's in between the 2 rows. Would I be better off putting a second pair of FXI's in and have each even with the seating position? I bought another pair that I was going to use as rears so I could use them and then get another pair for the rears or buy RTI's for the rears. Your (or anyones) thoughts?

Mike

mmadden28

Mike, Welcome to Club polk, and that's a really good question.

You might get a better response by starting your own thread though.

EDIT-I see you've actually been a member since Jan 2008-I though tyou just joined. Well 9 posts I guess its the same. ;) Welcome anyway. :cool:

mike0311

Thanks for the welcome. I do more reading then typing as I am still learning. I tried searching on this and other message boards but hadn't had much luck finding the answer

mmadden28

You won't be able to search on '7.1' using this forum's search engine. There is an apparent minimum of 4 characters required for a search term (and periods and hyphens don't count). So it will be damn near impossible to search on "7.1".

Your best bet is to try a google search limiting your search to the polkaudio.com site.
You might have to get a bit crafty with additional search terms to further filter your results.

comfortablycurt

I upconvert all of my movies to 7.1...and I don't think I'll ever go back to 5.1. Like others have said, a lot of people will argue that it's not worth it because there are very few titles even being released in 7.1 right now...but there will be more in the future.

Even with titles that are in 5.1 though, I prefer to convert to 7.1...it gives you a much more enveloping soundstage. Like Eric said...with 5.1 there is a big gap in the soundstage, either directly behind or to the sides, depending on your placement. 7.1 takes care of that problem. I haven't found any movies yet that haven't sounded good converted to 7.1 either.

7.1 isn't necessary...and as others have said, if you can't place the speakers properly it could do more harm than good. If you've got room though, I'd say go for it.

As far as speakers go, you'd probably do best to just get another pair of FXi5's.

mike0311

I have the room, it is 22' long. I have about 4' behind the rear seats that I will put the rear surrounds. If I go ahead and test out 2 pair of side surrounds do I just get a 2-to-1 bannana plug and plug them into the receiver?

Igo

If you pipe a 5.1 audio trac into a 7.1 speaker set up, wouldn't you get some of the same efect has having a couple mis-positioned speakers?

mike0311

Igo,

I'm not sure if I understand your question. I think if you played 5.1 audio on a 7.1 setup then you just wouldn't get any audio out of speakers 6 & 7

Igo

It really wasn't a question. I was wondering why if it is important to somebody to be sure they have proper speaker placement in a 5.1 set up with a 5.1 audio output them why would the same person take a 5.1 audio signal; matrix it to 7.1 output and output it into a 7.1 speaker set up where it would be impossible to have proper speaker placement? in short, something in a movie trac is either behind you or beside you. The same something cannot be in both places at the same time. Just curious.

mike0311

So I assume the question/non question was not directed towards my posts?

comfortablycurt

Most receivers are able to decode a 5.1 soundtrack and send it out in a 7.1 format. It matrixes the rear channels into the mix automatically...it doesn't sound like anythings positioned incorrectly to me.

Igo

Yep!

kuntasensei

With DPL-IIx on top of 5.1 tracks, the rear surrounds are created in much the same way that DD-EX works. It compares phase and amplitude of the side surrounds, and anything in phase between the two speakers gets moved to the rear. This works really well, because most mixers place sounds that are meant to sound like they're behind you in both side surrounds.

So basically, if a sound is 50% in each surround, DPL-IIx will shift it so that it plays from both rear surrounds. If a sound is 25% in the left surround and 75% in the right surround, DPL-IIx shifts it so that it plays in varying increments from the right surround and the right rear surround. If a sound is in the left surround but there's no trace of it in the right surround whatsoever, it plays strictly in the left surround. This comparison of the phase relation between the side surrounds to determine placement across the rear soundstage, while it might not please purists, actually does an excellent job of precisely placing sounds across the rear soundstage. With 6.1 tracks (such as DD-EX or DTS-ES Matrix), which are now essentially the norm for modern movies even if they aren't labeled as such, the sound mix is done with the intention of phase/amplitude being decoded in this way. DPL-IIx, however, can extend the 6.1 out to 7.1 and Dolby recommends using DPL-IIx Movie even with DD-EX tracks.

A good example of how well DPL-IIx works to turn 5.1 to 7.1 is with games that are in surround sound. The Xbox 360 outputs DD 5.1, but I use DPL-IIx Movie Mode with it. In Rainbow Six: Vegas 2, you can turn your character slowly and hear sounds in the environment move with great cohesion around the room between each speaker.

Bottom line: If you have the room to properly place your speakers for 7.1, it's worth it. The 7.1 created by DPL-IIx works so well that I never turn it off.

Igo

I can see how that would be effective.

mike0311

So does anyone else have any advice on my original question? Does it make sense for me, with 2 rows of theater seats, to put 2 pairs of side surrounds as well as 1 pair of rear surrounds?

mmadden28

Man, I had a nice reply for ya but it got hosed.

In short, I would suggest that you start your own thread with a better description of your issue in the subject. This thread is somebody elses and has a subject of "7.1" which may be limiting the exposure of who reads it.
I would say that it does make sense to do what you just stated, just like a movie theater does. however its how do you do it and not hose the surround effects (is that about right?).
I'll also state that i don't design Home Theaters, so don't take my acceptance that what you suggested makes sense as valid or not. However I don't recall seeing this done in too many HT setups with multi row seating in the magazines (but that doesn't mean its not done.)

kuntasensei

You can do an array on the sides without balance issues, but I'd make sure you use identical speakers for them. If you use different speakers, one may be a higher sensitivity than the other, which would make it louder at the same level (though you could balance that out if you were powering each on an individual amp channel with individual per-channel trims on the amp). If you use identical speakers, they'll be similar enough that you'll have no issues. You'll end up with the trim on the side surround channels on your AVR/pre-pro being slightly lower, however, to compensate for the level of the two speakers working simultaneously (likely about 2-3dB lower), much in the same way co-locating subwoofers gets you ~3dB more headroom.

Having said that, the better option might be to stick with dipoles on the sides and get the diffuse sound that way.

mike0311

Thanks everyone. I think I will just stick with one pair and move them around a bit to see what sounds best. I appreciate the input.