IC cables upgrade but not speaker cable upgrade, is there a difference

thsmith

I use a Denon 2808CI with a Carver TFM-25 feeding my mains.

I have monoprice cables 12awg with banana plugs on each end feeding the SDA-1Cs from Carver.

If I upgrade the ICs between Denon and Carver keeping the 12AWG speaker cable will I hear a difference or do have to upgrade speaker cable as well to notice/hear a difference ?

I am looking at Ben's cables like these http://shop.bwaudio.net/index.php?act=viewProd&productId=10

Thanks,

phuz

I'd like to say yes, but we can't tell you that you will hear a difference. Only you can find that out. Everyone's ears are different.

Try it out.

thsmith

I agree in principle but with money being tight I would like to hear other peoples experience before I go out spend hundred/s dollars.

NotaSuv

I found Bens IC's an improvement over the Analog II's I was using...I have also found that different speakers can show more or less of an improvement in sound with a change in IC's.

Example: My LS 90's did sound a bit better when using the Ben IC's but my Epicure Model Ones sounded much better using Bens IC's, so much so this is why they replaced the LS 90's for now.

treitz3

I have had a system that was very similar to what you have now. It was on that system I tried out my first "upgraded" IC. Oh yeah, there was a difference and I didn't have to strain to hear it.

Ben's cables are really nice. I use them in parts of my rig as well.

thsmith

Lasareath wrote: »

What are you using now?

I am using Ben's silver cables and they sound great!

I big improvement over the best cables soild at best buy.

10 year old Esoteric Audio ICs.

Hilbert

I have no experience with your equipment and predict nothing. However, when I replaced my cheapo RCA cables with the basic Blue Jeans RCAs I heard an immediate substantial improvement. A few days later I went from 16g Dynex speaker wire (BestBuy off brand) to 12g from BJC and heard little or no improvment (with all speaker runs under 10 feet).

Just for what it's worth.

thsmith

OK, Thanks to all for the feedback. It was a dumb post on my part I know, akind to which sub should I buy.

A moment of weakness.

ben62670

thsmith wrote: »

I use a Denon 2808CI with a Carver TFM-25 feeding my mains.

I have monoprice cables 12awg with banana plugs on each end feeding the SDA-1Cs from Carver.

If I upgrade the ICs between Denon and Carver keeping the 12AWG speaker cable will I hear a difference or do have to upgrade speaker cable as well to notice/hear a difference ?

I am looking at Ben's cables like these http://shop.bwaudio.net/index.php?act=viewProd&productId=10

Thanks,

I don't sell those anymore. I upgraded them;)
http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?t=68605
These are those now:)
They look better in person. The connectors and the sheathing are an improvement over the old style.

thsmith

Ben, I did not see these on your site. SHould I PM you for a price ?

ben62670

Nope. They are $60 a pair for now. All the material except the sheathing went up so when I run out the price is going to have to go up:(
Ben

thsmith

ben62670 wrote: »

Nope. They are $60 a pair for now. All the material except the sheathing went up so when I run out the price is going to have to go up:(
Ben

Ok, I want a pair, how do I order and I need 6 footers?

woodguru

It seems like I come from a pretty far away place on this issue than you guys, but here goes. I was a high end dealer and went through just about every major brand cable and most of the smaller brands from entry to flagship products. About $600,000 worth of cable over about a four year period.<br>
<br>
The question of which makes the difference is loaded. Upgrade the speaker cable and you hear more of what is going on from the inferior I/C's. Many people audition way higher grade speaker cable and it seems to make their system sound like crap. The cable just allows you to hear the crap that you couldn't before which is a good thing if you want to upgrade the source of the crap which is I/C's.<br>
<br>
Upgrade I/c's first and you can't really hear differences as much as you would be able to if you had higher resolution cables. The whole flip flop when taken on a one thing at a time approach is a recipe for disaster. You don't know what you got until later on down the upgrade path a higher resolution addition starts to reveal unwanted coloration you never could hear before.<br>
<br>
I run 2.3TL's with amps that stand with anything out to $50k, a $5500 Electrocompaniet EMC-1 up CD player, and $30k worth of wire. The power cords on the amps and preamp are $3500 each JPS Labs Aluminatas. You would miss 95% of what those power cords will do unless the rest of the wire is at a very high form indeed. The improvements are all in the most delicate detail range lower resolution cables aren't functioning in.<br>
<br>
I know everybody is super conscious of where the bucks are put into your system, but spring for the best I/C you can bring yourself to get for the source to preamp connection, that is the critical one. Once the preamp bolsters the signal it isn't as delicate and subject to being lost in a wire. Then do the speaker wire. The speaker wire is going to make a far greater and better difference after an interconnect upgrade in that first key position. If you were to make a change on the preamp to amp first it wouldn't make nearly as much difference as the other position will. There are cables made by one manufacturer who's midgrade $300 cable is better than the biggies $1500 mid grade, it isn't about how much you spend to get comparative performance.<br>
<br>
When you think about the logic behind the signal path as it goes from component to component it makes perfect sense that a better wire on that first I/C is going to maintain a better fidelity to the preamp so the overall sound has to be better. Look at cable as an individual loss at each station it's used at. You are upgrading the signal at each step to whatever degree you decide is good enough. When you do something that makes a dramatic change just realize that you aren't even close to the pinnacle of what it can sound like, upgrades in wire from there can be truly unbelievable when you hit the right wire.<br>
<br>
I hope the cable priority means something, it's a **** of a confusing question when you are trying an upgrade at a time. I generally sold cable packages to alleviate the confusion and easily misinterpreted results of one cable at a time upgrading.

kawizx9r

Hey thsmith, this is a direct response to your first post (didn't read anything else posted on here).

I'm running a Denon 2805, preamp outs to my Moscode 300 that powers my SDA 1C's and DIY speaker cable. I ran signal cable analog I's from the Denon to the Moscode and since switching over to AQ Sidewinders I noticed a good difference in midrange and highs. Much more clarity although bass I think remains the same. Was able to tell when listening to anything acoustic or with lots of vocals.

thsmith

You guys do realize this post is 9 mothes old ? My system has changed drastically since then.

Mits IC and speaker cables, Adcom GFP-750 Pre and many other components.

kawizx9r

thsmith wrote: »

You guys do realize this post is 9 mothes old ? My system has changed drastically since then.

Mits IC and speaker cables, Adcom GFP-750 Pre and many other components.

I blame woodguru lol

I always try and help as best I can, even if its just a personal experience. :rolleyes:

thsmith

Going with Ben's ICs was definately a step in the right direction. As a matter of fact I stiill use Ben's in the HT portion of my system.

XO upgrades next on the agenda.

inspiredsports

woodguru wrote: »

It seems like I come from a pretty far away place on this issue than you guys, but here goes. I was a high end dealer and went through just about every major brand cable and most of the smaller brands from entry to flagship products. About $600,000 worth of cable over about a four year period.<br>
<br>
The question of which makes the difference is loaded. Upgrade the speaker cable and you hear more of what is going on from the inferior I/C's. Many people audition way higher grade speaker cable and it seems to make their system sound like crap. The cable just allows you to hear the crap that you couldn't before which is a good thing if you want to upgrade the source of the crap which is I/C's.<br>
<br>
Upgrade I/c's first and you can't really hear differences as much as you would be able to if you had higher resolution cables. The whole flip flop when taken on a one thing at a time approach is a recipe for disaster. You don't know what you got until later on down the upgrade path a higher resolution addition starts to reveal unwanted coloration you never could hear before.<br>
<br>
I run 2.3TL's with amps that stand with anything out to $50k, a $5500 Electrocompaniet EMC-1 up CD player, and $30k worth of wire. The power cords on the amps and preamp are $3500 each JPS Labs Aluminatas. You would miss 95% of what those power cords will do unless the rest of the wire is at a very high form indeed. The improvements are all in the most delicate detail range lower resolution cables aren't functioning in.<br>
<br>
I know everybody is super conscious of where the bucks are put into your system, but spring for the best I/C you can bring yourself to get for the source to preamp connection, that is the critical one. Once the preamp bolsters the signal it isn't as delicate and subject to being lost in a wire. Then do the speaker wire. The speaker wire is going to make a far greater and better difference after an interconnect upgrade in that first key position. If you were to make a change on the preamp to amp first it wouldn't make nearly as much difference as the other position will. There are cables made by one manufacturer who's midgrade $300 cable is better than the biggies $1500 mid grade, it isn't about how much you spend to get comparative performance.<br>
<br>
When you think about the logic behind the signal path as it goes from component to component it makes perfect sense that a better wire on that first I/C is going to maintain a better fidelity to the preamp so the overall sound has to be better. Look at cable as an individual loss at each station it's used at. You are upgrading the signal at each step to whatever degree you decide is good enough. When you do something that makes a dramatic change just realize that you aren't even close to the pinnacle of what it can sound like, upgrades in wire from there can be truly unbelievable when you hit the right wire.<br>
<br>

I hope the cable priority means something, it's a **** of a confusing question when you are trying an upgrade at a time. I generally sold cable packages to alleviate the confusion and easily misinterpreted results of one cable at a time upgrading.

I find this to be a fascinating post, probably as it mirrors my findings, albeit at a budget level of 5% or less of what you had to work with.

There are lots of open minds here. You may not be coming from as far away a place as you state in your opening sentence.

Welcome to Club Polk, woodguru.