Adding bypass caps to Sonics

inspiredsports

I'm about to have all new Sonics installed on the my high pass crossovers and I've been trading emails with Jeff at Sonic Craft. He emailed . . .

" you should have bypassed all the series caps to the tweeters with a Sonicap Gen II 0.10uF/200VDC. If you had the budget, bypassing them with a Sonicap Platinum 0.10uF is even better "

It seems consensus here in the group is that it isn't necessary to install bypasses caps whn using high quality main caps like Sonics.

Can anyone weigh in on this?

heiney9

Not necessary at all, but if you have the coin feel free to try it and see what you think. Jeff almost always suggests bypass caps; it just seems to be his method. IMO, and many others, bypass caps sometimes improve poor sounding cheap caps. When using quality caps it is not necessary and in many cases alters the sound in a less desirable way.

YMMV

H9

george daniel

IIRC, when I rebuilt mine using sonicaps, Jeff recommended the .1 cap,, and about that time Jesse had tried them with and without (sonicap platinums) and it was about that time that alot of folks started removing/forgoing the bypass cap altogether. YMMV,, I prefer it without the bypass. Jesse or DK are better versed in this than I,, drop em' a PM and solicit their opinion. Good luck.:)

F1nut

The bypass caps are not needed when upgrading to film/foil caps. They create artifacts, which at first sounds kinda neat, but becomes annoying as hell in short order. I wish Jeff would stop recommending them.

inspiredsports

Thanks! I thought I had done my homework determining the group's consensus solution and made my original purchase from Elliot. BTW, they custom valued 4 caps and had them in the mail that same day, and I called in after noon their time. Great Customer Service!

When I went back for the low caps I ended up hearing the alternate opinion and was a bit skeptical. I am happy that I get to use that $150 elsewhere!

NJPOLKER

Those guys at Sonic are great, second to Polk Customer service.

inspiredsports

NJPOLKER wrote: »

Those guys at Sonic are great, second to Polk Customer service.

I second that!

inspiredsports

Sheesh !!!

I didn't name names, but when I placed my order today without bypass caps and explained that "group consensus" was that the bypass caps were not needed and in many cases a detriment, the gauntlet was thrown down.

"This is simply not true. I do not know a single person who has used Sonicaps in a Polk speaker with either G2 or Platinum 0.1uF with 100-200 hours of burn-in, and then listened to and preferred them out. If there is one or a group of these people, please encourage them to contact me. (J at Sonic.)"

I'm not trying to cause a ruckus, I just want the best sound possible.

Ricardo

inspiredsports wrote: »

Sheesh !!!

I didn't name names, but when I placed my order today without bypass caps and explained that "group consensus" was that the bypass caps were not needed and in many cases a detriment, the gauntlet was thrown down.

"This is simply not true. I do not know a single person who has used Sonicaps in a Polk speaker with either G2 or Platinum 0.1uF with 100-200 hours of burn-in, and then listened to and preferred them out. If there is one or a group of these people, please encourage them to contact me. (J at Sonic.)"

I'm not trying to cause a ruckus, I just want the best sound possible.

Just forget it; Jeff also convinced me to buy the bypass caps for my 3.1 TL's, and I did it even after Jesse told me about the artifacts; I installed the bypass caps and liked it initially, but then realized they were adding something "extra" and removed them. If I remember correctly, it cost me about $60 not to follow Jesse's advice.


Edit: found it post # 11

http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?t=47929&highlight=3.1tl%27s

zingo

I dropped the bypass on my Sonicaps and love the sound. I have also not used the bypass on much cheaper caps (Jantzen Cross Cap) and still had a great outcome. I feel bypass capacitors are only needed when cheap components are used, and that is because the primary cap isn't doing its job well.

F1nut

With all due respect to Jeff and he deserves respect, in this case I disagree with him. I remember talking to him about how I wasn't happy with the sound. He suggested that I put more hours on them, which I did....well over 400 hours. When things didn't get any better, I took them out and immediately became happy with the sound. In short, it sounded more like real music sounds.

I also remember when H9 wanted to upgrade his Polk's and had questions about the bypass caps. I sent him some of the ones I had installed (now fully cooked) and he ended up with the same conclusion as I did.

I'm not sure, but I don't recall anyone here that actually likes the bypass caps installed. Anyone recall differently?

inspiredsports

I've conducted hours and hours of search through the threads and have not found support for bypassing Sonics.

F1nut

Not Sonics. Folks get confused enough around here already. They are Sonicap's.

scdrj

Ouch,

I should have seen this thread before making this post: http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?p=960623#post960623

Jeff

scdrj

F1nut wrote: »

I remember talking to him about how I wasn't happy with the sound. He suggested that I put more hours on them, which I did....well over 400 hours. When things didn't get any better, I took them out and immediately became happy with the sound. In short, it sounded more like real music sounds.

You were the only one to ever contact me. You first said that they were the bomb. A little later, you contacted me back and said they sounded funny/strange/different (I do not remember exactly). Because the platinum is made the way it is, unlike most all other caps, it travels backwards for the first 50 hours. Sounding worse than when they were first installed. I assumed that this was probably your problem. Yet, from the sounds of it, it was not. However, you never called me back to say you had 400+ hours on them with ill results... So... I naturally assumed all was as good or better than in the begining:o

Jeff

scdrj

F1nut wrote: »

I wish Jeff would stop recommending them.

You should have called. Information is everything.;) I really have had no other neutral/negative feedback.

The positive feedback I get from bypassing G1 with G2 comes in many forms. This is only one example from my ex-partner Danny Richie. He told me that the cap combination was as responsible for the success of this speaker as the design itself. I have never seen a more decorated speaker:

At this year’s CES, the Usher Be-718 Monitor speakers were hailed as the new bar-raising price/performance king of the class.

1) Winner 2008 CES Design and Engineering Innovations Awards

2) “The Usher Be-718 is simply a great loudspeaker that delivers a level of performance far above what its size and price would suggest.”
-- Robert Harley, The Absolute Sound
Winner 2007 Absolute Sound Product of the Year Awards

3&4) “The midrange and highs are ultra-clean ... I've never heard a speaker this small go so deep. I'd swear the Be-718s were moderately sized floorstanders.”
-- Doug Schneider, Soundstage.com
Winner SoundStage.com Reviewers’ Choice Award
Winner SoundStage.com 2007 Best Product Debut Award

5) "Usher's new Be-718 bookshelf monitors are spectacular, and I am sold on beryllium tweeters! Even though $2,795/pair is no chump change, you could spend a lot more and get a lot less." – John E. Johnson, Jr., Secrets of Home Theater and High Fidelity Winner Secrets Best of 2007 Award – Bookshelf Speakers

6) “If I were in the market for a stand mount these would be my first choice because, in this price class, I think a speaker that hits all its marks is difficult enough to find but one that is as engaging to listen to as the Usher Be-718 comes along only once in a blue moon.”
-- John Potis, 6moons.com
Winner 6moons.com Blue Moon Award

7) Winner Audiolics.com Product of the Year Award

MSRP: $2,795 without stands

The Be-718 features Usher’s superbly extended Beryllium Oxide tweeter, matched with newly-designed woofers that keep up with the tweeter’s speed, clarity and extension. The Be-718s are the first product developed with our Global Design philosophy. The high technology drivers, crossovers, and perfectly timed-aligned cabinets are designed and built by Mr. Tsai Lien Shui at Usher Taiwan, with finishing cosmetics supplied by a firm in the United Kingdom. Dr. Joseph D’Appolito, Usher’s long-serving technical consultant, provides crossover tuning here in the ’States. Next, Texas-based Danny Richie, chief designer at consulting firm GR Research, hotrods the standard Be-718 for the U.S. market. Danny reengineers the entire crossover, selects premium U.S. crossover parts, adjusts the speaker’s baffle step compensation and improves vertical off-axis dispersion. Finally, all internal wiring is replaced with premium wire from JPS Labs.


Be-718 Features:
• Be Beryllium Tweeter
• JPS Labs Alumiloy internal wiring
• Front ports for easy placement
• Dancer-style best quality speaker terminals
• Cosmetics redesigned by Kam Young in the UK
• Retuned crossovers featuring all new/upgraded parts:
o Erse high-purity oxygen-free copper air-core inductors
o Mills resistors
o Sonicaps
o Erse Poly Caps
o Gen 2 Sonicaps

Specs
System Type: 2-Way
Tweeter: 1.25-inch Be Beryllium (9980-20BEA)
Midbass: 7-inch Paper Cone (8948A)
Sensitivity: 87 dB @ 1 watt / 1m
Nominal impedance: 8 ohms
Frequency response: (-3 dB) 42 Hz ~ 35 kHz
Power handling: 200 watts
Crossover: 2.06 kHz
Weight: 37.9 lbs each
Dimensions: (w x d x h) 10.2" x 16.9" x 15.2"
Shipping box: (w x d x h) 24" x 19.1" x 18.9"
Shipping weight: 82 lbs
http://www.scullcommunications.com/pressresources/usher/ush_pre_ces08.pdf

Best regards,
Jeff

NJPOLKER

Thanks for the information Jeff. Sonic Craft is a great company and has great employees/customer service. Issues like these are a great learning experience for everyone, so thanks again.
Drew

inspiredsports

scdrj wrote: »

Ouch, Jeff

Let's not forget I have, and collectively, the group has . . .

--- The HIGHEST PRAISE for you (Jeff) and Elliot as caring about your customer's needs
--- The HIGHEST PRAISE for your Customer Service
--- Absolutely the HIGHEST PRAISE for Sonic Caps and Mills

Greg

george daniel

I just got off the phone with Elloit?,,, these guys have been and always will be numbah one:),,, Hell,, I think they should attend the next PF,and possibly give a cap tutorial,, glad to see their participation in the forum. Keep up the great work,, guys,, and thanks.

NJPOLKER

A couple years ago when I knew just about nothing about any of this stuff I called and spoke to Jeff at Sonic Craft also spoke to Elliot. What a treat theywere to deal with. Patient with a dope like me and gave great advice without being one sided ie: not suggesting all Sonic Craft parts.
I hope Jeff continues to contribute to this Forum.
Drew

scdrj

Guys,

Thank you for all the kind words. This would not be possible without such a great group of customers! All BS aside, I must say that Sonic Craft's experience with Polk customers has been nothing short of excellent, rather a cut above. Further, I have gained some wisdom by coming here and viewing these threads.

I'd like to wish all of you and your families, a wonderful holiday season.

Best regards,
Jeff

ben62670

Merry Christmas Jeff:) Nice to speak to you the other Day/Night:D
Ben

NJPOLKER

Jeff and Eliot
Thanks for the wishes and back at ya!!
Like I said I sure hope you come around often.
Drew

F1nut

scdrj wrote: »

You were the only one to ever contact me. You first said that they were the bomb. A little later, you contacted me back and said they sounded funny/strange/different (I do not remember exactly). Because the platinum is made the way it is, unlike most all other caps, it travels backwards for the first 50 hours. Sounding worse than when they were first installed. I assumed that this was probably your problem. Yet, from the sounds of it, it was not. However, you never called me back to say you had 400+ hours on them with ill results... So... I naturally assumed all was as good or better than in the begining:o

Jeff

Hey Jeff,

I thought I had mentioned it in one of our discussions later on, but perhaps not.

It would seem that for whatever reason, bypassing doesn't work well with the Polk's, although it might for other brands.

Anyway, thanks for your insight and welcome to Club Polk.

Jesse