Sonic Craft Caps & Resistors for Polk 10 Monitors

ajohnston26

Here's the parts list from Jeff at Sonic Craft on all the caps and resistors needed for Polk 10 Monitors. I can't afford them yet, but I just thought someone out there might like to have this info.

Below is Jeff's reply to my email:

OK, there were several crossover versions for the Monitor 10. I'll
assume it was the first version until you can tell me otherwise.

You will need the following:

Qty. Part.
4 Sonicap Gen I 12uF/200VDC
4 Sonicap Gen I 17uF/200VDC
4 Sonicap Gen II 0.10uF/200VDC
2 Mills MRA-12 2.5 Ohm
2 Mills MRA-12 2.7 Ohm
1 24' of Cardas QE solder

I recommend removing the fuse as well. Your total less shipping is
$218. During our "December Sale", you would receive a 20% discount
(discounted total $174.40).

http://www.soniccraft.com/sonicaps.htm
http://www.soniccraft.com/sonicap_gen_2.htm
http://www.soniccraft.com/mills_resistors.htm
http://www.soniccraft.com/products/connections/solder/cardas.htm

As for placing an order: http://www.soniccraft.com/orders.htm

NJPOLKER

Skip the 4 GenII 0.10uf's no need for bypass caps when using high quality caps. At least thats what I have been told and that it can make the SQ kinda off.
BE SURE TO ALWAYS OPEN YOUR SPEAKERS UP TO DOUBLE CHECK THE VALUES OF COMPONENTS.
Just my opinion
Drew

Face

I believe those 17uf's are on backorder till the middle of the week, I'm waiting on one.

F1nut

NJPOLKER wrote: »

Skip the 4 GenII 0.10uf's no need for bypass caps when using high quality caps. At least thats what I have been told and that it can make the SQ kinda off.

Absolutely correct.

RandyWilliamson

Hello. And thanks for the info posted much appreciated.

Just wanted to confirm that your list does not include caps for the low side?...I been doing some research and I think I will go w/ Daytons as many have used successfully and recommended.

The smaller Gen II caps recommended to be skipped don't appear on any of the schematics. I imagine they will be there when I pop out the crossover?

My Monitor 10's have a sticker with 10A on their crossovers.
But I am running Morel MDT-22's as replacement tweeters. Does anyone know if the original crossover design here will work with these tweeters fine or should a change be made? I can't say for sure when or if I will be investing in the RDO198's as these Morels have not been a let down.

The older schematics show a 34uF cap on the 6501 drivers and then a 27uF on the last revision using 6503 drivers. One of mine is frozen solid so I will more than likely be replacing all 4 with 6503's. Is the 27uf cap still advised?

Sorry for the bomb of questions but there are 2 inductors...not mentioned. Any recommendations there?

The last revision from polk in 1990 shows the 2.7ohm resistor removed when running the BDO108(that's PN i guess for the RDO198s?) was this change not appreciated by most?

There are many threads I been reviewing to avoid asking so many questions but it gets a little confusing to build the best or the "definitive" better upgrade. Trying to re-build or upgrade to whatever has generally worked for most people or is most recommended.

Thanks for any help lended.

NJPOLKER

F1nut wrote: »

Absolutely correct.

Of course its correct YOU TOLD ME SO :rolleyes::p:D;)

NJPOLKER

Randy
I am far from an expert but have learned a few things, some the hard way.
Forget about what ajohnston posted.
Pull the crossover and check and see what components are currently being used. It will be something like a big yellow guy in the middle thats yellow 12uF and a couple blue things one maybe 12uF and one maybe 34uF and maybe a couple resistors one 2.0 ohm and one 2.7ohm. Also id there is not a external fuse a little blue thing that is the polyswitch which will be discussed later. Write down what you find and let us now.
I have no idea about the tweeters you use but maybe oone of the other guys will chime in.
If you plan on keeping these for the long run spend as much as you can afford with-in reason on the caps and resistors. You'll be greatful down the road.
Drew

NJPOLKER

Oh yeah
Leave everything in the x-over alone ie inductors.

F1nut

Randy,

First, forget the schematic labeled M10S, dated 3/23/90. That is an entirely different speaker.

The first schematic listed is for your Monitor 10A using the 6501 drivers. The second schematic is for the Monitor 10B using the 6503 drivers. The third schematic is for the never made Monitor 10(TL) using the SL3000 tweeter.

The only real difference is that the A version uses a fuse for the tweeter protection and the B uses a polyswitch along with 6503 drivers instead of 6501's. The reason the resistor value is changed from 2.5 ohm (A) to 2.0 ohm (B) is because of the added resistance of the polyswitch vs the fuse. Regardless, you will be able to drop in the 6503 drivers without any changes to the crossover.

As for the Morel tweeters you have installed, I don't know anything about them. Did you put them in? Anyway, if you want to change back to Polk tweeters you want to order the RD0194-1. Now, if you want to do the 10(TL) upgrade, that's an entirely different can of worms requiring a new inductor, a new resistor and RD0198-1 tweeters.

Questions?

RandyWilliamson

Thank you for clearing that up! I definitely do not have polyswitches!

Does it hurt to keep the fuses and maybe up them to a higher grade?
I would think they are there for a reason. I'd like to get some more insight on removing them and maybe what you use in their places or in their holders that is a good conductive to not have to bypass them on the circuit or is that where it is best bypassed?

If the 10(TL) is considered a definite upgrade in some kind of quality and or compliments the use of the RDO198's then yes...but I would definitely be using the morels for a little while since they are relatively new. wait wait wait...if im not mistaken what is preffered is the RDO194 not the 198's right? I might be getting them confused....but if the preffered tweeter is the 194 over the 198's then no then I will stick with RDO194 original design XO. and try to swap to them some time in the future....let me know which one is preffered...I'd want to consider the change if it turns out the 198's are the ones most like.


These were installed previously by an ex-roommate car "audiophile":
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?Partnumber=277-062&FTR=mdt-22&CFID=3192988&CFTOKEN=28386924
There are actually 2 of them per. One is on the backside facing upwards mounted externally with wires from the inside. He did these in series and paralleled an 16 ohm R to this series...so they "seem" to sound fine. But as for harmonics Im reading that this was not a good idea...so ideally I plan to put back to single tweet up front. It's a long story I was away for a long time and he kept popping the tweets/fuses. We're not necessarily on good terms but they do not pop and the fuses seem to hold longer...but they are 1.25 amps I just now discovered.

I opened the crossover and have the 12uf sandwiched between 2.5ohm+2.7ohm. Also a 34uF and then a non-rated coil and a big white "cap" looking that im guessing is another coil really....that has some barely legible markings TI E-0012-1 +Mexico.

NJPOLKER

Randy
I forgot one thing so far, welcome to Club Polk
Don't complicate things, buy Sonic Craft caps and Mills resistors http://soniccraft.com/
20% off and you will be real happy. (4) 12uF's (2) 34uF's (2) 2.5ohm and (2) 2.7 ohm resistors your looking at about a hundred dollars of joy. Buy a pair of RDO-194's for another hundred and don't look back. If I were you I'd do the x-overs and see how they sound with existing tweeters. They may sound great and thats for you to decide.
Drew

ajohnston26

njpolker
All I did was post what Sonic Craft emailed me for all to see, nothing more, nothing less and no opinions attached. So try not to kill the messenger.

NJPOLKER

ajohnston26 wrote: »

njpolker
All I did was post what Sonic Craft emailed me for all to see, nothing more, nothing less and no opinions attached. So try not to kill the messenger.

Have no idea what you are talking about. It's been awhile since I have killed someone and it was not a messenger. I guess I better go back and read what has been posted so I know where your coming from.
Drew

F1nut

Ugh, Frankenpolks!

Remove both Morel tweeters (new or whatever) and replace with one RD0194-1 per cabinet.

What are you using for power? You mention that you kept blowing fuses and tweeters, which tells me that you were overdriving the amp/receiver. Either keep the volume level down or buy a better power. That said, I think you better kept the fuses in place for now.

The 10(TL) upgrade requires replacing one of the inductors. Do you really want to get into that?

The item marked, TI E-0012-1 +Mexico is the second 12uF cap.

I see Drew has posted what you need to buy and where to get it. It's good advice to follow.

One more time.....DO NOT add bypass caps. Hell, they weren't even in the original specs.

RandyWilliamson

Excellent!!! I may even order tommorrow to make sure I have them possibly ready for Xmas!

Big big thanks to all.

F1 I would only consider doing RDO198 and it's changes if it's a definite upgrade and it is more liked than the RDO194. If the concesus is most like the RDO194 then that is where I will stay. I'm going to run the Morels for a short time tho in either case the RDO194(or 98's) will be sure to follow.

I'm running an abandoned Vintage Teac. But I'm looking at an Adcom 200W@8ohm x2. Hopefully with it's matching pre-amp....any advice there? You don't think that will overpower the later RDO's?

I was actually considering a way to use another 5.1 amp/receiver(denon 75wpc) that really doesnt have enough power on it's own to drive the polks but would like to keep it for it's 5.1 surround attributes.....is it possible to use this as a sort of pre-amp and then feed signal after it to the Adcom? (used only to drive the polks)

The reason I ask is I don't want to overdo the amount of units I'll have all together...I'm planning to go with a 400 DVD/CD carousel player as well...and I can't imagine the stack I am going to build by trying to have rock solid power for the polks with an attempt to combine it with a 5.1 receiver...so I was considering omitting the pre-amp($$$$)....but I do have to think some more about all I'm talking.(in case it all sounds impossible)I'm thinking that the 5.1 receiver probably won't serve as good a cleaner of signal as a real pre-amp may serve and I don't have it in front of me to see if it has flat output.

Face

The RDO-198 is better than the 194, but it's not a night and day difference.

That adcom would be a good choice, don't worry about overpowering the speakers unless you like to listen at concert levels.

Some Denon receivers have "pre-outs" that allow you to use a external amp to power you speakers.

RandyWilliamson

Shoot went to their site and they're not listing a 34uF!?

F1nut

Right, you need two 17uF's, which equal 34uF.

F1nut

Personally, I find the 198's to be much better than the 194's. If that's the way you want to go, you should hold off ordering anything until you can find the right value inductor.

I'm planning to go with a 400 DVD/CD carousel player as well..

You really don't want one of those, not noted for good sound.

ben62670

The MDT22 does not work well with the stock XO. It requires a higher XO point than the Polk's XO. That tweeter is not a good replacement. It will blow too easily, and be distorted at the lower level of the frequency range of it is presently crossed. You need to get the RDO's in there. I have some of the inductors if you want to do the 198 conversion.
Ben

RandyWilliamson

Ok I take it the 198's are direct drop in's that match the size of the intended replacements 194's.

On my crossover I only found one inductor I don't know where the 2nd one is...unless it's the wire wrapped around the plastic casing.

What are the inductor changes...?? Does everything else remain the same as we've spoken previously?

If so I will then wait to do both the 198's and the inductor change at the same time at a later stage. How much are the 198's?

Is there enough space for 2 17uf's on that little board?

Sucks to hear the MDT-22's suck. But thank you.

RandyWilliamson

F1nut wrote: »

Personally, I find the 198's to be much better than the 194's. If that's the way you want to go, you should hold off ordering anything until you can find the right value inductor.



You really don't want one of those, not noted for good sound.

hehehe I knew someone was going to break that bit of bad news...I envy a friend of mine who has one and it is quite simple a huge convenience to just type in the album number and hit play....I'll reconsider it. Its like when you pick up an all in one device they never really work as good as a dedicated.
What about if I forced myself to go with the Adcom pre-amp? should clean up the signal some.

btw im sold on the 198's with you.

inspiredsports

Face wrote: »

I believe those 17uf's are on backorder till the middle of the week, I'm waiting on one.

I ordered 8 Sonic Gen I 17uf today and can confirm they are on backorder, but due in Hot Springs this week.

Jeff really challenged me for not buying bypass caps even going so far as to say that anyone in the group who has tested high quality .10uf's on a Sonic for at least 200 hours and taken them off is WRONG and should contact him!

RandyWilliamson

Can anyone check out post 22. I didn't order today because....I wanted to make sure that the later RDO198's won't need different value caps or resistors...and which inductor to go with later.
I've seen Ben post good things on the Dayton caps for the lowend...do you feel the Sonics are much better even on the lowend?

F1nut

All you have to do is look at the different schematics to see what you need.

Anyway......grand total needed.

(2) RD0198-1 tweeter
(4) 12uF cap
(2) 34uF cap (or four 17uF)
(4) 2.7 ohm, 12 watt resistor
(2) 0.27mH, 0.5 ohm inductor (probably 22 gauge, but you should check with Polk about that.)

scdrj

inspiredsports wrote: »

Jeff really challenged me for not buying bypass caps even going so far as to say that anyone in the group who has tested high quality .10uf's on a Sonic for at least 200 hours and taken them off is WRONG and should contact him!

Hello all,

I decided to come see what was brewing over here after receiving the following reply from inspiredsports:

There is one small bit of feedback I feel I should pass back to you as food for thought. Club Polk members, to a man, do not recommend bypassing Sonics. And I'm talking about all variations of Polkies to Polk Gurus. As you know, many of us have owned Polks since we purchased them brand new in the very late 1980's. I've not updated my crossovers yet so I can't say for sure, but everyone in the group has advised me against bypassing. And it's NOT to save the money. The concensus is that the 0bypass caps (even the platinums) introduce artifacts that "undo" the benefits of upgrading in the first place. Everyone who bypassed has snipped them out and reported an improvement.

To which my reply was:

> "Everyone who bypassed has snipped them out and reported an improvement".

This is simply not true. I do not know a single person who has used
Sonicaps in a Polk speaker with either G2 or Platinum 0.1uF with 100-200
hours of burn-in, and then listened to/preferred them out. If there is
one or a group of these people, please encourage them to contact me.

It is very simple. I have never heard this. And, I would certainly be interested in hearing factual accounts of people who have burned in (for 100 plus hours) that exact value in one of those two flavors bypassing only the series caps to the tweeter.

This has nothing to do with the pros or cons of bypassing in general. There are those that say you always bypass everything. There are those that say you never bypass (because of "phase smear"). Both camps are wrong in my experience. To bypass or not is solely dependent on the application, caps being used, and the desired result. It is more alchemy than science, but it is all about synergy.

Regarding the factory 750pF Silver Mica bypass. I really believe it was done because that kind of thing was "in vogue" in the industry at that time. The result? The bypass helped an already harsh cheap cap sound brighter. This magnified the listener's attention to the rough response of that tweeter, hence, a bad idea. The G1 has great synergy with the G2 and Platinum.

BTW, This was at the end of my final reply: While several Polk owners have performed this with great results, I can only assume several from that forum must be uninformed. No pressure. I am not forcing you to improve your speakers. I am merely providing you with the knowledge to do so.


Best regards,
Jeff

RandyWilliamson

F1nut wrote: »

All you have to do is look at the different schematics to see what you need.

Anyway......grand total needed.

(2) RD0198-1 tweeter
(4) 12uF cap
(2) 34uF cap (or four 17uF)
(4) 2.7 ohm, 12 watt resistor
(2) 0.27mH, 0.5 ohm inductor (probably 22 gauge, but you should check with Polk about that.)

Which schematic ?
Is it ok to run a 33uF ? dayton doesnt have 34uF.
Also can you point out where the 2nd inductor is?

RandyWilliamson

Ok I think your working off the Mod M10 schematics for SL3000.
Perfect.
The 2nd inductor IS the bigger winding wrapped around the XO cradle/hub. so yea yea dUH me.

Only leaves one last question is the 33uF dayton ok?

Face

33uf is fine.

ben62670

Yep 33 is well within spec. The originals were 20% pieces, and the Dayton's are 5% that would allow 32-36 no problem. It is a shunt cap too which makes it even less critical.
Ben

scdrj

Agreed. With a budget upgrade, I recommend a 33uF Aeon (SCR), Bennic XXP, Dayton, Erse Pulse-X, or Solen (SCR). In general, these parts come in at better than 3%. It is more important to have less than 1% from Left to Right. I would rather have a 32.96uF/33.27uF pair, than a 34.00uF/34.99uF pair.