It's not just the Big 3

F1nut

Honda announced (12/5/08) that it would withdraw from Formula One racing effective immediately due to the economic crisis. Honda re-entered F1 in 2000 and has invested staggering amounts of money into their racing program. For a team like Honda to withdraw at this stage of the game means that the Honda Corporation, as a whole, is hurting for money, big time.

As the smart ones here have pointed out, it's not just the Big 3.

ben62670

F1nut wrote: »

Honda announced (12/5/08) that it would withdraw from Formula One racing effective immediately due to the economic crisis. Honda re-entered F1 in 2000 and has invested staggering amounts of money into their racing program. For a team like Honda to withdraw at this stage of the game means that the Honda Corporation, as a whole, is hurting for money, big time.

As the smart ones here have pointed out, it's not just the Big 3.

My buddy was talking about this yesterday. The big three in Japan are hurting too:(

george daniel

Well this is an understatement,, but the economy is in much worse shape that the media is reporting,, the "have nots" are growing and the "haves" are dwindling,, a great time to buy,,but who's got the money. Franly,, I'm just happy to have a job.I think the key word is "cash flow".

mantis

How many companies in the world right now are not feeling the effects? I don't think many. I think what's going to show over the next year or so is the Integrity of all these companies. I think the ones who survive will for good reasons. The one's who go under deserve 2. There is a lot to be said and I'm not the one to say it but at some point someone will have to see the light.

Dan

tonyb

Not really big news,everyone is hurting for money.Not for the lack of it,but the fear.Banks have lots of cash to lend,but don't because of the fear of not getting it back.When the consumer stops spending,for fear of the future,the economy stops.When we do spend,we spend more than we should,credit is given out in cracker jack boxes,then we get in trouble and it's someone elses fault.A vicious cycle.Anyone who follows buisness,the economy,knows it runs in cycles and has periods to correct itself as we see now,especially in the real estate market that has run wild the last decade.Honda pulling out only tells me they have some fear of their future and are trying to trim it down to stay profitable.I think the best thing for the big 3 is to go down in bankruptcy and throw out all those bogus union contracts which are eating away at them and start from scratch.This comming from a union guy,go figure.Fear,is a mighty word,and when it takes hold,you need something of huge proportions to shake it loose.

AsSiMiLaTeD

Of course it's not just the big 3, I don't think anybody's saying anything otherwise. You know all those people who are too broke or can't get credit to buy a new American car? Yeah, well they're too broke or can't get credit to buy a foreign car either, especially considering that they're usually higher priced to begin with.

Here's the difference, and why people are talking about the big 3 and not the Japanese automakers: The Big 3 have been losing money for so long that now when the **** really does hit the fan they don't have the ability to ride out the tough times. It's gotta be either that, or that their business model is so bad so as to leave them in a situation where they can't ride out an economic downturn without asking the taxpayers to bail them out. Can someone point me to the link that shows where Toyota or Honda are asking Japan for billions of bailout money, I seem to have missed that one.

The big 3 have been flying by the seat of their pants for quite a while now, making it by, but barely. The problem when you live close to the edge is that you typically have little ability to absorb a big blow or a significant alteration.

It's kinda like how I was with school, I would typically like to wait until the last minute to put something together. That works for the most part and I was able to get everything finished before it's due. But if something unexpected happened (another last minute assignment comes up, computer goes dead, dorm catches on fire, whatever) then I'm screwed because I waited until the last minute and now have no buffer, so tp speak.

So Honda has to pull out of racing, who cares - you said they suck anyway. If I was pouring gobs of money into something that I suck at for years on end, I'd probably quit at some point as well. You've convinced me that Honda sucks at racing, I'll give you that. It's a good thing I don't drive a F1 car around daily and that their other cars are well built.

I'm not saying the lack of sales are the fault of the big 3, or Toyota or Honda or anyone else. What I am saying is that any company who has the inability to deal with a few bumps in the road has screwed up somewhere.

Should they be bailed out? Sure. It does seem anti free-market, but seriously what choice do we have? It's like you tell your child to stay away from the cliff's edge, but he doesn't listen to you, gets too close to the edge and starts slipping, of course you're going to help him, out of necessity - because even though the lesson of staying away from the edge is important, the consequences of letting him fall to his death are far greater...

george daniel

Tony,,, the "fear" factor is a very good point,, very good indeed. I wish it were not true,, but I think that you nailed it.

fatchowmein

Deleted.

treitz3

I'm waiting to see the impact of the economy with regards to NASCAR. Could this lead to the end of professional racing as we know it?

millerman 3732

treitz3 wrote: »

I'm waiting to see the impact of the economy with regards to NASCAR. Could this lead to the end of professional racing as we know it?

If I'm not mistaken NASCAR has already canceled all track testing for 2009.

heiney9

European marques like VAG-Volkswagen Audi Group which includes Porsche, Lambo, Bentley are hemmoraging as well. It's not just the Big 3, they just get all the news over here.

The world economy as a whole is in the dumps not just the US. The US just seems to have a larger impact globally than any other single market. Buckle up as it's going to be an even rougher ride. Hopefully we can ALL work together with a global solution to start moving things in a positive direction.

The Big 3 have needed a revamping for a loooooong time and hopefully this will get them lean and mean again. It's going to be painful and probably take 5-7 years but in the end they should come out stronger and better able to compete globally. I say that not even being an American car fan........but the Big 3 are extremely important to the vitality of the American economy, but things can NOT contuinue as they are.

It's a shame it's taken something like this severe downturn to force the changes they should have been anticipating all along.

H9

MacLeod

treitz3 wrote: »

I'm waiting to see the impact of the economy with regards to NASCAR. Could this lead to the end of professional racing as we know it?

NASCAR put a ban on off season track testing to help out the smaller teams. It costs several million dollars to test at NASCAR tracks during the off season and while monster teams like Hendricks and Rousch have no problem smaller teams like Bill Davis, Michael Waltrip, CNC/Haas (now Stewart/CNC) can use the help. This is a good move and helps keep things even.

As of now, the Big 3 are going to continue in NASCAR as far as their sponsorhips with the teams but will be pulling back some on their advertisements and such in the series as a whole.

There have also been a lot of layoffs in the garage area. Several teams are laying off a lot of people during this crunch. I personally think this is simply a "correction". I dearly love NASCAR but think its getting too big for its britches. Theyre trying to make NASCAR appeal to everybody when no sport can and as a result theyve gotten a little bloated. Youve got these stupid new cars to kill racing and make everything "even" (when its done the exact opposite and youve only got 3 drivers that win all the time). They censor the drivers so they wont offend anyone but instead they have created the most BORING people in the sports industry. I personally think its not the end of the world that NASCAR is downsizing some.

As for the Big 3 vs the Japanese automakers - the difference is the Big 3 are about to go **** up due to the unions slowly choking them to death and, as usual, pricing themselves right out of a job where the Japanese are losing money for the first time ever. Toyota lost money last quarter but Honda actually made money. They were the only ones that did. Not surprising as they make the best cars on the market. Decent looking, bullet proof reliability and awesome gas mileage. Also they dont have any big engine cars like Toyota does so they didnt take a real hit on any of their models.

Polk user

treitz3 wrote: »

I'm waiting to see the impact of the economy with regards to NASCAR. Could this lead to the end of professional racing as we know it?

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,457504,00.html

read-alot

Polk user wrote: »

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,457504,00.html

Wonder if Jana even knows that if Detroit leaves us (yes I work on Cup cars)
it won't be the first time.

Maybe this "recession" will help bring racing back to the Cup series, it's been missing since the big bucks came in and we were more about "the show" than how good the racing on the track is.

SolidSqual

Its a global economy and America is the head. When America takes a ****, the whole world gets flushed.

Polk user

read-alot wrote: »

Wonder if Jana even knows that if Detroit leaves us (yes I work on Cup cars)
it won't be the first time.

Maybe this "recession" will help bring racing back to the Cup series, it's been missing since the big bucks came in and we were more about "the show" than how good the racing on the track is.

ED ZACHARY!!!

I miss the GOOD OLE DAYS of IROC racing. NASCAR has turned into a show instead of a race.

carpenter

AsSiMiLaTeD wrote: »

Should they be bailed out? Sure. It does seem anti free-market, but seriously what choice do we have? It's like you tell your child to stay away from the cliff's edge, but he doesn't listen to you, gets too close to the edge and starts slipping, of course you're going to help him, out of necessity - because even though the lesson of staying away from the edge is important, the consequences of letting him fall to his death are far greater...

Adding to why they should be bailed out ..
It does seem that the "free markets" system is being seriously compromised. However, the fact of the matter is that the government is running a huge bail out program. And what's the point here? this crisis has been caused by the financial industry's greed and intended stupidity. Granted, The big 3 were performing pretty poorly years before the crisis, but this dramatic drop in business, has been triggered by the financial industry's behavior. Now.. it does seem quite discriminating if government was so quick to authorize 700 billion for an industry that caused this huge mess, and not authorize anything for the industry that's facing an immediate collapse, largely because of that recession. Remember, 1 out of 13 people is directly and indirectly linked to the auto business, and the government is not going to help them with less then 10% of what it had already payed the very companies who sold hundred of billion of dollars in securities backed by non existing money?! I think it's unfair. It looks pretty bad. knowing some wall street tools myself, I suspect that from the overall financial industry's bailout money, more money then the entire big 3 bailout program will go to bonuses. just my 2c.