help needed. got taken to the bank by a car repair shop

danger boy

My good friend just got some transmission work done on his car.. and I'm afraid he got taken to the bank by the repair shop big time. He's not car repair savy, and he just authorized the shop to do the tranny work on his 2000 Dodge Neon.

The bill came to just under 2K. :eek:

I feel sorry for him.. but is there anything he can do? I told him i'd go with him back to the repair shop and try to get some $$ back for him. but I highly doubt they'll just going to roll over and refund him part of his money back. He had the work done last week and didn't ask for the old parts from his tranny. So I believe the shop just replaced some parts that never needed to be replaced and charged this nice guy 2K for it.

So I'll go talk to the manager with him this week.. but any ideas how I might be able to help him out and get some $$ back if that's even possible.

He knows he effed up by authorizing the work to be done.. he feels bad about that. so let me know if you all have any ideas. I want to help him out.. this was most of his Christmas money that he had to use for that repairs.

Shannon W.

I would think that a grand should have covered parts and labor to fix it. but two grand is high way robbery!

Shannon

John30_30

I wouldn't be getting bent out of shape over it if the shop is reputable. Trannies are not tinkertoys.
Although that's a little on the pricey side, a full warrantied rebuild around here is 1500, and the cost of living is cheaper overall here in Okla.
Our vintage Taurus wagon somehow developed a crack in the case last year. Well, that's no simple matter, it's the full burrito to replace the case even if all the planetary gears and seals were fine.
Your friend is a grown-up and he signed authorization. That's what being a grown-up is. Unless he wants to go around paying more for expert opinions to vouch that substandard work was done, he better grow up and live with it.

-Not meaning to sound like a dick here, although maybe it does. I have been in the boat where the shop was crooks- i.e. it was a chop-shop doing rip-off tranny jobs to look respectable. What sucks is ponying over all that cash and then the 'new' rebuild craps out in a few months. Even them all going to jail didn't make up for that.

strider

While 2 grand is a lot of money, like John said it's not out of the realm of reasonability for a tranny repair. Could you find out what your friend had done? Part numbers and such would really help. I have a program here at work that gives labor and parts estimates on repairs for any vehicle.

ben62670

If the tranny failed that price isn't way out of line. There is a lot of labor involved. Auto's are hard to diagnose without taking them apart:(

Squidmon

A rebuild on a Chrysler tranny (notoriously bad trannys) runs around $2k. The price he paid is about normal.

danger boy

strider wrote: »

While 2 grand is a lot of money, like John said it's not out of the realm of reasonability for a tranny repair. Could you find out what your friend had done? Part numbers and such would really help. I have a program here at work that gives labor and parts estimates on repairs for any vehicle.

Ok.. here is what is listed that the repair shop did... and it's tough to say if they did rebuild the tranny or not.

list of parts
reconditioned transmission with an exchanged rebuilt torque converter with warranty

1 new assembly set transtar # 32004A $156
1 new filter 7.98
1 new Band - Kickdown (3) $22.42
new trans fluid $37
1 exchange rebuilt torque converter $379

Labor to remove, rebuild and reinstall tranny - $1,205

I understand that tranny rebuilds are time consuming and labor is always going to be the most expensive cost on repairs. But from what my friend said, he never felt or heard anything weird from his tranny. He just took it in for a routine tranny service.. then that's when they said he needed a rebuild and to replace the torque converter.

I think those things may not have been going out. but that they may have just found routine metal shavings in the pan and over exaggerated to him how serious the problem was.

2K seems way to high to me.. but I'm not a mechanic either. Bottom line is the repair shop never gave him any proof that all that work was needed, recommended maybe, but needed, I'm not sure.

thanks for the help everyone.

ben62670

That's inline. If his car had around 100k or more it probably needed it. He should have received a quote before the work was done, but again it is real hard to diagnose.

tcrossma

I was quoted a price of $2600 to rebuild the tranny on my 2000 Volvo S80 -- something was slipping. The price for a brand new one from the dealer was going to be $4500. Most of the cost of the rebuild was labor.

nadams

Parts are definately not out of line. New filter is standard practice, kickdown band would be if it was worn, and the torque converter is essentially the clutch in auto trannys, and takes a lot of abuse in the Chrysler trans. The only thing not described is the "assembly set". Labor is probably correct... they may have had to pull the engine to get the trans out, or at least loosen it and pull it out of the way. Transmissions are not a fun job...

sucks2beme

I don't know about Neons, but Dodge minivan trannies often
crap out at 100k. Mine needed work at 85k, completely crapped
out at 135k. Seems high, but labor down here is cheaper.

Jeff Beaird

$2K is not that bad...not good but not that bad. The shop probably farms out the tranny rebuild and they do the labor. But don't forget the tow bill, easily $200-300. Taxes, etc... Trannys are real expensive anymore.. not the cheapie $300 rebuild anymore. 2 grand is a lot of money:eek:
I took my 91 Mustang down to the local tranny shop to get an estimate for a rebuild, I was thinking $500. To my surprise he said $1600..!!!! For a AOD Ford tranny! A VERY popular transmission that Ford used for a lot of years. Insane in the membrane..!

MikeC78

I agree, they should of at least saved the broken/worn parts as proof. Anyway, I'd say that is a high price on a rebuild... I'd think you can find another used 2000 Neon for about $2000 bucks?? No?

sucks2beme

MikeC78 wrote: »

I agree, they should of at least saved the broken/worn parts as proof. Anyway, I'd say that is a high price on a rebuild... I'd think you can find another used 2000 Neon for about $2000 bucks?? No?

And that one will need a new tranny too.

ND13

Al,
How many miles did the Neon have on it? In these parts, that car would be a total loss. Always get an estimate.

Jstas

Al, I'm afraid that you are SOL. If you think you got raped on the price, best thing to do is write down what the guys did and get another opinion of cost from another repair shop. DO NOT SHOW THEM YOUR BILL! Just write it down and call someone on the phone and ask. Tell them you aren't looking for an estimate, just that you think the price was kinda high and just looking to see if it was way out of whack. Get two or three others prices and see how in line it is. Keep in mind, prices can vary by as much as $300 between shops. That's not abnormal.

Also, if he needed kickdown bands replaced, that transmission was in bad shape. He's lucky he got it fixed when he did 'cause like what was said, Chrysler trannies from that time frame like to eat themselves alive. Add to that, most of them are outsourced to other companies like Renault, Peugeot and Mitsubishi and parts are expensive and hard to come by.

I think it sucks that he lost the trans but I don't think the price is out of line. The only way to really go any cheaper is to get a junkyard unit but then you have no idea how long it will be before that one **** the bed too. The rebuild probably cost just under $2K but a reman'ed jobby would probably be around $2500 and a new one from Chrysler would be in the $4K-$5K range. Not cost effective. Especially for an 8 year old car that is probably barely worth $4K as it is.

Joe08867

I agree with othere here. The price may be a little high but not out of line for Tranny work. I have paid the same (Shopr Repaired) and more (Rebuilt and New) for transmissions in the past.

Jstas has a good suggestion to see if the price was out of line. I think you will find the price is pretty close to the norm though.

strider

I looked up the repair in Motor/AllData, which is a pretty widely accepted standard for labor times in the auto repair industry. Assuming the car's got a 3 speed auto, looks like 9.3 hours for rebuilding the trans, inclusive of R&I. To replace the torque convertor, add .2 hours. If they flushed the trans cooler lines, which is a good idea if there's metal debris in the trans fluid, add an additional .6 hours. At my shop, 10.1 hours of labor is equal to $1120.49. I would have quoted you $91.25 to start diagnosing it. We work on Volvo's, so the labor rate may be a bit higher then a Dodge dealer in our area. Since it's a different market all together, labor rates in your area may be higher across the board. For some reason AllData didn't have parts prices for this repair; the ones you posted don't look completely out of line, IMO.

Long story short, the total doesn't look out of line. Personally, I would have advised your friend that, like Noel said, the repair may exceed the blue book value of the car. That's not the responsibility of the repair facility, however.

Jstas

My experience with ALLDATA is if it don't list parts, you gotta get them from a dealer and that drives prices up.

I didn't think about the line flush either. If there was a ton of metal in the fluid, they probably ran a flush through the lines but if the transmission oil cooler is all clogged up too, it can take way more than .2 hours to clean it out.

The average going rate for labor in most areas from an independent shop is about $80-$85 an hour. Some dealerships charge more and shops that specialize in one type of car, like Volvos or BMWs, might charge a premium and cite expert skills as the reason for the premium.


When I was working as a part time mechanic, our shop used ALLDATA and the standard rate was about $72 an hour. We were lower than most other places and the brought alot of business in. But it also brought alot of people crying poor-mouth too. So we always had to find creative ways that would get people back on the road again without emptying their wallet. Wasn't easy and there were a couple of times that I wrote novels on work orders and attached them to receipts to cover our butts legally. Also spent alot of time on phones explaining to people that this is a junkyard engine or transmission and I can't guarantee how long it will last. So you need to know this before we proceed. It's amazing what people will say OK to just to save a few bucks.

bikezappa

danger boy wrote: »

But from what my friend said, he never felt or heard anything weird from his tranny. He just took it in for a routine tranny service.. then that's when they said he needed a rebuild and to replace the torque converter. QUOTE]

If the tranny was working fine I would have asked for more info.

Maybe it was time to sell?

mhardy6647

Automatic transmission repair/rebuild is extremely expensive, and some (MOPAR are notorious, but also Ford to some extent) are nowadays made of materials that just don't hold up.

Our 1998 Windstar transmission failed at 167,000 miles (in 2006); 3k to replace with a rebuilt transmission. We said "forget about it" and donated the hulk to charity.

I drive a car with a manual.

Mrs. H's Hybrid Escape has a CVT. We'll see how it holds up :-) 78k miles so far (knock on wood).

Jstas

mhardy6647 wrote: »

Automatic transmission repair/rebuild is extremely expensive, and some (MOPAR are notorious, but also Ford to some extent) are nowadays made of materials that just don't hold up.

Our 1998 Windstar transmission failed at 167,000 miles (in 2006); 3k to replace with a rebuilt transmission. We said "forget about it" and donated the hulk to charity.

I drive a car with a manual.

Mrs. H's Hybrid Escape has a CVT. We'll see how it holds up :-) 78k miles so far (knock on wood).

You are complaining that a transmission "only" went 167,000 miles and now that means Ford makes junk transmissions?

Wow. Wish I could live in your world. Must be nice with all those lolipops, puppydogs and rainbows.



You want to know what a junk transmission is? 1995 Hyundai Accent. In 83,000 miles, the transmission was replaced 5 times under warranty. Replaced once for a 6th time out of warranty and promptly traded in on a 1998 Ford Taurus which was stone cold reliable. Yeah, 83K and 6 transmissions, that's a junk transmission. 167K before the first major repair on an 8 year old minivan, that's not doing too bad in my book.

strider

Jstas wrote: »

You are complaining that a transmission "only" went 167,000 miles and now that means Ford makes junk transmissions?

Wow. Wish I could live in your world. Must be nice with all those lolipops, puppydogs and rainbows.



You want to know what a junk transmission is? 1995 Hyundai Accent. In 83,000 miles, the transmission was replaced 5 times under warranty. Replaced once for a 6th time out of warranty and promptly traded in on a 1998 Ford Taurus which was stone cold reliable. Yeah, 83K and 6 transmissions, that's a junk transmission. 167K before the first major repair on an 8 year old minivan, that's not doing too bad in my book.

Odd. On my screen, I don't see the word "only" anywhere in mhardy's post.

I do like puppies, though......:rolleyes:;)

sucks2beme

mhardy6647 wrote: »

Automatic transmission repair/rebuild is extremely expensive, and some (MOPAR are notorious, but also Ford to some extent) are nowadays made of materials that just don't hold up.

Our 1998 Windstar transmission failed at 167,000 miles (in 2006); 3k to replace with a rebuilt transmission. We said "forget about it" and donated the hulk to charity.

I drive a car with a manual.

Mrs. H's Hybrid Escape has a CVT. We'll see how it holds up :-) 78k miles so far (knock on wood).

The manual isn't maint. free. You would of changed out a couple of clutches.
167k isn't too bad.
How many miles were on the Neon?

Jstas

strider wrote: »

Odd. On my screen, I don't see the word "only" anywhere in mhardy's post.

I do like puppies, though......:rolleyes:;)

I used the quotes for emphasis. :rolleyes:

strider

Jstas wrote: »

I used the quotes for emphasis. :rolleyes:

I figured so. I just like to give you a hard time, please don't take it too personally.

ohskigod

Man Al, that sucks!

Honestly, I dont think the shop wacked him too much. they probably saw major problems, called him to ask what he wanted, and your friend seemed to give a green light across the board to a tranny shop working on a 200 Neon. eeesh dude, that will not go down as one of the man's best decisions.

on a 2000 Neon, when a shop says "I have to do tranny work, its bad", you take that neon out, and buy a new car.

to a degree he got rooked, but not flat out. the tranny was probably a greek tragedy waiting to happen.

Lesson learned for all here

mhardy6647

The manual isn't maint. free. You would of changed out a couple of clutches.
167k isn't too bad.
How many miles were on the Neon?

152,000 on the original clutch in the ZX-3 as I type this. Yeah, its days are probably numbered but so far so good. Manual costs less to buy, less to repair, and returns better mileage (plus it is fun to drive).

Our 1988 Corsica (first car we bought new after we got married) went 188,000 on its original clutch.

In this day and age (and in reasonable driving -- no deserts or mountain commutes or towing) I don't think 200,000 miles is an unreasonable expectation for a car to exhibit no major failures -- including transmission. I wan't really disappointed by 167k on the Windstar, but it did strand my daughter in Worcester in the middle of the night (not a good thing) when it went, and the vehicle didn't really seem like investing 3k in given its age and mileage. I suspect the latter would be true for a 2k investment in a 2000 Neon for most folks... but still cheaper than a new car I'll admit.

sucks2beme

mhardy6647 wrote: »

152,000 on the original clutch in the ZX-3 as I type this. Yeah, its days are probably numbered but so far so good. Manual costs less to buy, less to repair, and returns better mileage (plus it is fun to drive).

Our 1988 Corsica (first car we bought new after we got married) went 188,000 on its original clutch.

In this day and age (and in reasonable driving -- no deserts or mountain commutes or towing) I don't think 200,000 miles is an unreasonable expectation for a car to exhibit no major failures -- including transmission. I wan't really disappointed by 167k on the Windstar, but it did strand my daughter in Worcester in the middle of the night (not a good thing) when it went, and the vehicle didn't really seem like investing 3k in given its age and mileage. I suspect the latter would be true for a 2k investment in a 2000 Neon for most folks... but still cheaper than a new car I'll admit.

You wouldn't get that far on a clutch in Dallas! It's all stop and go.
I normally draw a line at 100k
0-50k Anything major is a red flag.
50-100k not real good.
100-150k ok but could be better
150-200k real good
200+k great!!!!
Ac, alternator, starter,brakes. All normal wear and tear. especially brakes.
Down here I have had exhausts last for as long as I've owned the car.
Brakes wear out faster than normal. It's a trade off.

petrym

I had the torque converter fail on our 2001 Chrysler minivan: a lot of metal fell into the transmixer and shredded it. $3500.

danger boy

all good ideas coming in from you all.. i'll pass them along to my friend. Personally, i'm not very up on car repair costs.. so what i'm reading from some here is that on a rebuild 2K isn't to far out there.. yeah, maybe slightly high, but not unheard of.

oh yeah his car has 85,000 miles on it. never had another other problem with it that he's mentioned.

as they say.. buyer beware.

It bites, but it's only money, right?