Shure M97Xe cartridge help needed - VTF

danger boy

I am trying out a new Shure M97Xe cartridge and stylus.. and if you have ever replaced a cartridge you know that you have to readjust a whole hell of alot of settings and adjustments.

so my problem is this new Shure cartridge and headshell are way lighter than my previous Audio Technica 440MLa one. I mean the AT was set to 1.8grams. this new Shure I have set to what is it's max recommended and the needle skips all around the album and won't track correctly. SO to get it to not skip around, I've got the weight way up to 3grams. Which to me seem pretty heavy.. but it sounds good and it's the least amount of weight I can get away with without it skipping all over the record.

I need to get the correct tools to adjust the rest of the settings like azimuth and zenith.. but that will have to wait till I can get the correct tools in the house first.

Any ideas why I am having to put so much weight as 3g's on this new cartridge and headshell?

Fongolio

Are you using a scale to measure the 3 grams or just going off the weight scale on the tonearm? In order to set tracking force, first back the weight off the tonearm until it balances freely in the air. This is with no anti-skipping weight applied. If you have a suspended weight type anti-skip device, remove the weight from the hanger. Then set the scale ring to zero (the weight and the scale should move independant of each other)and make sure the arm still balances in air. Then dial up the arm to the desired weight and set the anti-skip to the same aproximate weight. All of this should be done after the cartridge is properly aligned on the tonearm. If none of this works perhaps the tone-arm bearings are too tight and binding. Those are very tricky to adjust. What is the brand and model of tt?

billbillw

That's odd. I thought the AT 440 was a lighter cartridge being plastic and all...

Definitely follow the advice above. You need to balance the tonearm after changing/aligning things. Then adjust to 1.75-2.0 grams if you intend to use the brush. Leave it at 1.25 or 1.5 if you are not going to use the brush.

I wouldn't worry about azimuth and zenith. Most TTs don't have those adjustments anyway. Just align using a standard protractor so that it is tracking correctly. Start with the outer, then move to the inner. Move the cart forward/backward until it lines up at those two points. Do not angle the cartridge at all. The points should be possible while keeping the cart perfectly parallel with the headshell. Do all this, then balance then re-zero, then set tracking force, then set anti-skate to approx the same as the tracking force. The Shure should do fine at less than 2g with the brush and less than 1.5 without. Good luck.

HB27

Is the cart sitting in the headshell properly? Make sure that new headshell I sent you allows the cartridge to sit level when mounted. Sometimes you need a spacer plate for mounting carts into different headshells. I'll send you one if you think it may be needed.
The heighth of the tower/angle of stylus contact are critical also.
The obvious is to make sure your new stylus is straight. I've seen new carts with bent stylus right out of the box. I've seen quality control issues more frequently than I'd like to think about also.
I put NO faith into the "close enough" counterweight dials and use a stylus scale for proper weight adjustment.
That headshell may not be a good match for your tonearm also.
Lots of variables and guesses without "hands on".
Harry

danger boy

i was just surprised about the big difference between both headshells and carts in terms of weight. Harry you may be right.. the headshell you sent to me may not weigh enough and then the cart would be to light too.

I do need to align the stylus for the correct angle though. that I know for sure.

i'll keep at it.

billbillw

danger boy wrote: »

i was just surprised about the big difference between both headshells and carts in terms of weight. Harry you may be right.. the headshell you sent to me may not weigh enough and then the cart would be to light too.

I do need to align the stylus for the correct angle though. that I know for sure.

i'll keep at it.

Most TTs have a range of cart weights that will work properly. Others have 'auxiliary weights' or different counter weights for different ranges of weights. What TT are you trying to setup? Its usually best to try and stick to a headshell that is very close to the original.

Regarding alignment, the Shure comes with an alignment protractor in the box. It works pretty good for most tonearms.

FYI: I checked and the Shure M97XE weights 6.6g, the AT 440Mla weighs 6.5g. The difference must be in the headshell that you switched to. Can you switch back to the one you used with the AT?

danger boy

bill you might be onto something. this new headshell I got might be much lighter than the original Pioneer one that has the AT cart mounted on it. it's a Pioneer PL-530 turntable.

billbillw

danger boy wrote: »

bill you might be onto something. this new headshell I got might be much lighter than the original Pioneer one that has the AT cart mounted on it. it's a Pioneer PL-530 turntable.

Usually if you can balance/zero the tonearm, and have enough range to apply the needed force, then you are in the range that works with the tonearm. The problem comes when you have it balanced/zeroed and then twist it forward to apply VTF, and it hits the stop before you get to the desired force. If you are having this problem, then you are out of the weight range.

You have never really answered us to indicate whether you re-balanced/zeroed the counterweight before you started.

If you are running out of VTF adjustment after you have balanced/zeroed, check to see if you have the accessory sub-weight installed. The PL-530 has one of those for use with heavier cart/shell combos. It would screw into the back of the tonearm.

Do you have the owner's manual for this table? If not, I can forward one (pdf) to you.

danger boy

i haven not zeroed the tonearm yet. and yes I have the screw in counter weight.. but it's not attached at the moment. When I go.. things really go whacky. it's way to heavy for any of my carts then.

I will zero balance the tonearm. and again this is done without any cart or headshell mounted, correct?

Fongolio

Zero balance the tonearm with the headshell and cart mounted then dial up the aproximate weight you want.

billbillw

danger boy wrote: »

I will zero balance the tonearm. and again this is done without any cart or headshell mounted, correct?

NO NO NO! This is a basic fundamental of turntable use. Balance/zero with the arm just as it will be when you play records!

You may know this procedure, but I'll outline it in case others need to hear it.

Every time you change out something on the tonearm, whether its the cartridge, headshell, shims, etc, you need to re-zero the counter weight. Again, this should be done with the setup exactly as you will be using it when you play records. If your cartridge has a removable stylus guard, it has to be removed before you balance. (This doesn't apply to the Shure M97 since the guard is always attached).

Disable or zero any anti skate force/weights so that the arm will not be pulled back towards the rest. Then carefully remove the arm from the rest and hold it in the area just outside the platter, but clear of the rest. Lower the cue and carefully turn the counterweight until the arm floats...perfectly balanced. Be very careful of the stylus/needle during the whole proceedure. This is how many cartridges suffer a shortened life

After you have it floating perfectly, put the arm back on the rest and lock it. Then you zero the gram force DIAL, but DON'T move the actual weight! The dial can move separate of the weight.

This gives you a zero point. Now you dial in your desired tracking force by twisting the weight (not the dial). The dial should move with the weight and indicate the approx tracking force. While this may not be an exact indication of force, its close enough for most setups.

hearingimpared

Al give me a call I'll talk you through it.

Joe

Fongolio

Excellent post billbillw. That's what I was describing above but you were more detailed and exact.