Wadia 170iTransport

BlueFox

I received my latest toy today. It is the Wadia 170iTransport, the only iPod docking station that provides a digital output from the iPod. Used with the iPod 120GB Classic, and attached to the DAC1, it turns the iPod from a toy MP3 player into a serious music server.

I just loaded 6 CDs onto the iPod Classic, using the Apple Lossless encoding, and it sounds great. I know I am going to like this item.

Now if Apple would start selling lossless iTunes this thing would be complete.

http://www.wadia.com/products/170i/170iTransport_home.htm

F1nut

I listened to one recently run thru an Entech DAC. I wasn't impressed until we installed an MIT digital cable, then things got better.

BlueFox

F1nut wrote: »

I listened to one recently run thru an Entech DAC. I wasn't impressed until we installed an MIT digital cable, then things got better.

That's why the DAC1 is so great. It eliminates any jitter or other trash that can be introduced by the cable. As long as the bits are received error free the DAC1 will clean up the signal, reclock it, and produce great analog audio.

I hope I have enough wine to last the night, because I am going to be listening to the iPod all night.

F1nut

That's why the DAC1 is so great. It eliminates any jitter or other trash that can be introduced by the cable. As long as the bits are received error free the DAC1 will clean up the signal, reclock it, and produce great analog audio.

That seems to be a bit of a contradiction.......I'm just saying.

You really should try an MIT cable.

heiney9

Ipods with Apple Lossless will always be toys no matter what DAC or docking mechanism you use. I'm glad you are digging it but I'm just saying and Ipod is an Ipod is an Ipod. Apple Lossless is not bit perfect so the original source will always be slightly better.

Enjoy.................. as always different strokes for different folks. I have never been impressed with Ipods or Apple lossless for true fidelity. But that's just me.

H9

P.s. Cables make a difference even in the digital relm no matter what DAC you are using. I'm a recent MIT convert and I wish I would have done it a very long time ago.

BlueFox

F1nut wrote: »

That seems to be a bit of a contradiction.......I'm just saying.

You really should try an MIT cable.

Maybe later, I just got the thing today. Wadia included an RCA cable for the digital transport, and it seems to work okay. I would have preferred optical, but Wadia does not provide an optical output.

Anyway, while this is completely subjective, I think the iPod digital output over the RCA cable to the DAC1 sounds a bit better than the CD output over a primo TOSLink optical cable to the DAC1.

Later, after the wine wears off, using the same CD, I will do an A/B comparison test between the CD player and the iPod, and try to determine if there is an obvious differance.

As a side note, I believe that a cable can add jitter into the digital data, but the data is error free, if the jitter is eliminated at the receiving end.

BlueFox

heiney9 wrote: »

Apple Lossless is not bit perfect so the original source will always be slightly better.

While that might be true, this the first time I have heard this statement, and I did do some research before I bought this product.

I first heard of the Wadia in the November 2008 issue of the Absolute Sound. Unfortunately, they do not put their issues up for free on the web, so I cannot provide a link to the article, but you can buy the issue, and read it. Its not a bad magazine, but it is costing me money. An earlier issue praised the DAC1, and I ended up buying two of them. Now I had to buy an iPod Classic, and the iTransport.
http://www.avguide.com/the-absolute-sound

Anyway, from the article,

“You simply connect this output to any D/A converter and the iPod’s sound quality is now determined by the quality of that D/A converter”

and

“I store music on my iPod using Apple Lossless, which provides perfect bit for bit accuracy to the original with about a 40% reduction in storage requirements…”

and

“The iTransport’s slightly-better-than-CD sound quality is a bonus..”

Based on this review, and since I already had a DAC, I bought an iPod and the Wadia, and so far my impression is inline with the magazine review.

george daniel

Congrats on your purchase,,as Jesse suggested,,if you get a chance to try/demo the MIT, you might want to entertain that idea,, not slamming your purchase,, just merely a "worthwhile" tweak IMHO,,I tried switching to MIT T-2 (grey interconnects and SC, per F-1's suggestion regarding my system) and it did seem to tame the "digital glare". Good luck and have fun.

debussyj

I'm so glad you posted about the Wadia! I've been torn between purchasing the Wadia with PS Audio DAC or the Krell Kid. The problem with the Krell, I gather is that it utilizes the DAC on board the IPod, which leaves much to be desired. I'm kind of leaning towards the Wadia these days. Please let us know more of your listening experiences with it. Thanks! DJ

Face

BlueFox wrote: »

“The iTransport’s slightly-better-than-CD sound quality is a bonus..”

I don't understand how this is possible.

Anyway, while this is completely subjective, I think the iPod digital output over the RCA cable to the DAC1 sounds a bit better than the CD output over a primo TOSLink optical cable to the DAC1.

As for coax vs. optical, I've always found optical thin sounding compared to coax.

adam2434

MSB has a similar product. It requires a mod to the iPod to get the digital output. http://www.msbtech.com/products/iLink.php

At around $2K for the MSB, seems like a lot of cash for what it does.

The Wadia is around $400, right? Does it require a mod to the iPod?

WilliamM2

Face wrote: »

I don't understand how this is possible.

It's not.

As for coax vs. optical, I've always found optical thin sounding compared to coax.

Please explain how this is possible?

lakesailor

I run an Ipod/Wadia into a Theta DAC via a Liberty Serial Digital Cox. Cable. Simply excellent sound for what it is. Anyone who does not think you cannot get decent sound out of an Ipod (using strictly lossless or I Tunes +) simply has not tried the Wadia with as decent DAC.

A Friend after hearing mine went out and got a Wadia and he runs it through a PS Audio Digital Link III DAC…He know has his Marantz SA 11S2 CDP basically parked. The Ipod/Wadia/DAC sounds that good.

Don’t knock it ‘till you try it. It works. Just remember you need a good DAC.

Systems

WilliamM2 wrote: »

Please explain how this is possible?

It's possible that some degradation occurs because the data is subjected to two extra conversion stages when using the Toslink transmitter/ reciever.

F1nut

A Friend after hearing mine went out and got a Wadia and he runs it through a PS Audio Digital Link III DAC…He know has his Marantz SA 11S2 CDP basically parked. The Ipod/Wadia/DAC sounds that good.

Don’t knock it ‘till you try it. It works. Just remember you need a good DAC.

I'm not picking on you, but no, it's not that good. Certainly, not a replacement for a quailty CDP and the shiny silver or gold discs.

BlueFox

adam2434 wrote: »

The Wadia is around $400, right? Does it require a mod to the iPod?

It is $379, and requires no iPod mod. It comes with assorted mounting plates for the various iPod models.

Unbox the Wadia, attach a cable between it and the DAC, put an iPod in it, and now you have a kick-**** music server.

Buy the Absolute Sound November 2008 issue and read the review.
http://www.avguide.com/the-absolute-sound

Systems

BlueFox wrote: »

Unbox the Wadia, attach a cable between it and the DAC, put an iPod in it, and now you have a kick-**** music server.

It looks like a great product and it should certainly extract the full potential out of the iPod.However I think I'll stick to my transport/DAC combo and it's uncompressed PCM.

BlueFox

Face wrote: »

I don't understand how this is possible.QUOTE]

The above quote refers to a quote from an Absolute Sound review, by Robert Harley, of the Wadia 170iTransport, "“The iTransport’s slightly-better-than-CD sound quality is a bonus..”"

You need to research the subject in past Absolute Sound issues (177, 183, 186). I remember reading in a past issue (probably 177) an article where the writer was making the case that, for whatever technical reason, the music sounded slightly better when extracted from a hard-drive versus read from the CD disk. Although at the time, I did not have a music server, I was thinking about turning an unused Linux laptop into a music server, so I was curious for any information the subject.

So, when I read, in this person’s opinion, music from a hard-drive sounded a little better than from a CD, I remembered it.

As with many things in this hobby, there is an element of subjectivity and bias in regard to this subject, but, after 24 hours of using the Wadia, I have to agree with the reviews.

The music does sound a bit more open and clearer coming from the iPod. There is no degradation whatsoever in music quality between a CD and an iPod/Wadia music server.

Let me spend a few more minutes copying from the Wadia review in 186.

“As expected, the iTransport sounded like the DAC to which it was connected…..The iTransport had just a bit more space, bloom, and ambience than the CD……The differences were slight, but noticeable. This impression is consistent with what I’ve heard when comparing music on CD with the same music read from a hard-disk drive (see my reviews of the Qsonix and Sooloos music servers in Issue 177).”

If anyone is thinking of buying an iPod, Wadia, and/or a DAC I would spend a few dollars and buy these 3 issues of “the absolute sound”.

Issue 186 “The Speaker Issue” for the Wadia review.
Issue 183, “The Digital Issue”, for the DAC1 review.
Issue 177, referred to above, which I hope has the explanation of why hard-drive music sounds better than CD music

And, no I do not work for these guys, but I do subscribe to the magazine, along with Home Theater, Sound and Vision, and Stereophile.

F1nut

Nobody likes their baby called ugly.

mmadden28

BlueFox wrote: »

Face wrote: »

I don't understand how this is possible.

...
So, when I read, in this person’s opinion, music from a hard-drive sounded a little better than from a CD, I remembered it.

...

I know I read something like that before--something about that there is no CD jitter issues or something.

heiney9

lakesailor wrote: »

I run an Ipod/Wadia into a Theta DAC via a Liberty Serial Digital Cox. Cable. Simply excellent sound for what it is. Anyone who does not think you cannot get decent sound out of an Ipod (using strictly lossless or I Tunes +) simply has not tried the Wadia with as decent DAC.

A Friend after hearing mine went out and got a Wadia and he runs it through a PS Audio Digital Link III DAC…He know has his Marantz SA 11S2 CDP basically parked. The Ipod/Wadia/DAC sounds that good.

Don’t knock it ‘till you try it. It works. Just remember you need a good DAC.

I highlighted what I feel is appropriate. Plus, the weak link isn't the Dac and probably not the cable..................it's the Ipod and the media on the Ipod. I've heard Ipods and they are great for portable music, but IMO, not to replace a dedicated cdp, that's all I'm saying.

It is what it is and I'm sure the Wadia dock is one of the better sounding Ipod media devices but don't kid yourself into thinking it's ready to do serious audiophile duty by replacing a nice mid/hi end dedicated cdp.

BlueFox

For those of you with an open mind, here is a review by Wes Philips of the Wadia iTransport in the October 2008 issue of Stereophile.

http://www.stereophile.com/digitalprocessors/1008wad/

“Feeding the Wadia's output to my Simaudio Moon Evolution SuperNova CD player's digital input and listening through a Cayin HA-1A headphone amplifier driving AKG K701 headphones with Cardas Fat Pipe cable, I was startled by the deep bass and detail in the Andante of Valentin Silvestrov's Symphony 5, as performed by Andrzej Borejko and the Ural State Philharmonic Orchestra (CD, Megadisc Classics MDC 7836). The cellos had me swooning with their lush tonal color, against which splashed descending harp arpeggios and discordant tone clusters. At the end of the movement, I frantically checked my iPod for the rest of the symphony. It wasn't there—quick, where's my CD? Surprisingly, I was able to find it, and seconds later I was listening to the disc on the SuperNova. Ahhhhhh...

Wait a minute—this sounds the same as it did before. But that was from an iPod. This is a CD—they're s'posed to be better.

Yes, yes—as I said earlier, that is the whole point of the 170iTransport. But knowing it intellectually and actually experiencing it were two different things. I began playing tracks on Shuffle until I found one I thought sounded special, then compared that with the same track played from the original CD. Because the assortment on my iPod is already cherry-picked for tracks I really like, this happened all too frequently. ”

“Oh, there I go again, talking about that music stuff. The Wadia made me do it—between iPod and CD, no differences to report here. ”

“And so it went. If there was a difference between the original CD and the digital output of the 170iTransport, I never heard it—and the one time I thought I had, I went into iTunes and discovered that it was an older file that I'd recorded as a 320kbps MP3. Bad Wes! ”

“Footnote 2: I recorded the bits coming from the Wadia's coaxial S/PDIF output to my lab PC via the digital input of an RME soundcard, with Wes's iPod Nano playing a losslessly compressed file. I then compared that recording with a WAV rip from the original CD. The files were bit-for-bit identical, meaning that the 170iTransport is indeed transparent via its digital output. However, the datastream appears to have fairly high jitter, which will make the Wadia's sound quality dependent on the D/A processor used.—John Atkinson ”

Jitter elimination is a major feature of the DAC1.

While there are people who prefer to keep their head in the sand (or some other location), there is no denying the truth.

An iPod with a Wadia is great. Easily equal to a high-end CD player, yet much more flexible and versatile in playing music. I have been listening to mine non-stop since I hooked it up last night, and I cannot describe how good this thing is working.

F1nut

Not only do I have an open mind, I compared the Wadia/iPod set up vs a CDP, the CDP won hands down.

Easily equal to a high-end CD player

Hardly and the CDP I compared it to was mid-fi.

As for jitter, 150pS and below is inaudible. A measurement any high end CDP will meet or beat.

sucks2beme

You'll find most people here prefer Flac to apple lossless.

lakesailor

heiney9 wrote: »

I highlighted what I feel is appropriate. Plus, the weak link isn't the Dac and probably not the cable..................it's the Ipod and the media on the Ipod. I've heard Ipods and they are great for portable music, but IMO, not to replace a dedicated cdp, that's all I'm saying.

It is what it is and I'm sure the Wadia dock is one of the better sounding Ipod media devices but don't kid yourself into thinking it's ready to do serious audiophile duty by replacing a nice mid/hi end dedicated cdp.

Obviously you have not tried it. That's all I am saying

lakesailor

F1nut wrote: »

Not only do I have an open mind, I compared the Wadia/iPod set up vs a CDP, the CDP won hands down.



Hardly and the CDP I compared it to was mid-fi.

As for jitter, 150pS and below is inaudible. A measurement any high end CDP will meet or beat.

You are the first I have met who has said that. And I do mean the first. Don't kid yourself; with lossless content; a good dac and a good coax. cable they are as good. Period.

You will see more and more reviews coming to same conclusion. Guaranteed.

ben62670

GV#27 wrote: »

It's possible that some degradation occurs because the data is subjected to two extra conversion stages when using the Toslink transmitter/ reciever.

Thank you very much. I am a big fan of coax over optical;)

F1nut

lakesailor wrote: »

You are the first I have met who has said that. And I do mean the first. Don't kid yourself; with lossless content; a good dac and a good coax. cable they are as good. Period.

You will see more and more reviews coming to same conclusion. Guaranteed.

Thanks for the laugh.

Anyway, you guys have fun with your toys.......

shack

lakesailor wrote:

Don't kid yourself; with lossless content; a good dac and a good coax. cable they are as good. Period.

You will see more and more reviews coming to same conclusion. Guaranteed.

Like F1 said...have fun with your toys...:rolleyes:

BlueFox

F1nut wrote: »

Not only do I have an open mind, I compared the Wadia/iPod set up vs. a CDP, the CDP won hands down.

Another prolific poster who knows everything, and does not mind telling you so.

Let’s see. Who is more credible? My own ears, along with high-end audio equipment critics who write for major publications, and are paid to evaluate equipment, or some Internet know-it-all.

Hmmmm… Decisions, decisions. Who is more credible?

Well, I guess I will have to go with the respected high-end audio equipment reviewers who know the difference between fact and opinion, versus an Internet know-it-all who thinks his/her/its opinion is a fact, while simultaneously not having the slightest idea as to what they are talking about.

heiney9

Great entertainment here. You think Wes Phillips evaluation is a FACT.....waaaaaaaahaaaaa waaaaaaaaahaaaaaaa.

His is an OPINION just like yours, mine and everyone else's. Have fun with your audio gear and stop trying to convince people here, like myself and others, who have been around audio and have 20 years or more of experience. You like the way it sounds...........great. Just know there's lots better out there and stop trying to convince you found the Holy Grail.

You are the one who is coming off as in internet know it all.

H9