Your thoughts on music sharing...
Fatbrando
Posts: 275
Wanted to get your thoughts on Music/File sharing. Do you guys think it's illegal to burn a cd for a friend? Do you think it's wrong to send 'said file' across the internet? Is it any different than making a tape for a friend of a great record, like you did back in the 70's? What about sharing entire libraries online? Where do you guys stand? I mean the record executives say we're just borrowing the cd's because they hold copywrite protection over what's recorded on the CD.
Love to hear your take on this, please...
FB
Love to hear your take on this, please...
FB
Harman Kardon HK 3490
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Polk SDA SRS 2.3TL (Proud newbie owner!)
Stanton STR8-100
Polk SDA SRS 2.3TL (Proud newbie owner!)
Post edited by Fatbrando on
Comments
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Wanted to get your thoughts on Music/File sharing. Do you guys think it's illegal to burn a cd for a friend? Do you think it's wrong to send 'said file' across the internet? Is it any different than making a tape for a friend of a great record, like you did back in the 70's? What about sharing entire libraries online? Where do you guys stand? I mean the record executives say we're just borrowing the cd's because they hold copywrite protection over what's recorded on the CD.
Love to hear your take on this, please...
FB
I strongly feel this is illegal. If done how can the artist make a living support him or her and they can entertainment for you. Not and they can't make a living and so they can't offer entertainment.
Now if you buy a CD and make a copy for yourself for car then that's ok with with me, maybe not with them but.... I can't see to buy 2 or 3 CD's for myself.
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Bottom line: it's illegal.
I confess - I used to do it before laws were passed making it illegal. When I talk with people today who continue downloading illegally, all they ever seem to say is something like "Wull, everyone else is doing it." As if that makes it right.
Whether I "feel" like it's wrong isn't the point. It's illegal. Therefore it's wrong.
Off my soap box now."Wish I didn't know now what I didn't know then." Bob Seger -
File sharing, downloading off the net without paying for it is flat out wrong. Burning yourself a copy of a CD, no problem. Burning a copy of a CD for a friend of something that is OOP, no problem.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
Im not where I stand on this, often times I like it for being able to get allot of Underground mixtapes that I play. Other times I buy it, to play on my home system. Kind of neutral I guess. It has its pros and cons like everything else. I never copy video though, I need the best audio/video possible and I havent seen that in most copies.Shoot the jumper.....................BALLIN.............!!!!!
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http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showcase/view.php?userid=73580 -
BottomFeeder wrote: »Bottom line: it's illegal.
I confess - I used to do it before laws were passed making it illegal. When I talk with people today who continue downloading illegally, all they ever seem to say is something like "Wull, everyone else is doing it." As if that makes it right.
Whether I "feel" like it's wrong isn't the point. It's illegal. Therefore it's wrong.
Off my soap box now.
Ugh. COpying a CD for your own personal use is illegal. Taking a CD and ripping it to MP3 for your iPod is technically illegal. Making a backup of a DVD is illegal.
Illegal doesn't always mean wrong, sometimes it just means someone passed a stupid law.
Sharing with others on the other hand; yeah, you're stealing. I mean, making a mix CD for someone, while still wrong, is a minor infraction and tough to get too up in arms about it, but where to draw the line with that? Nowadays most people don't even listen to CDs, and if you made mix CD for someone it could easily be comprised of 600MB worth of MP3s, which is much more blatantly stealing.
I actually use a cool program called Simplify Media that let's me share my home MP3 library with friends, legally, streaming over the web, but they can't have a copy of the file itself or put it on their iPods. Kind of a neat compromise that the RIAA seems to have gotten on board with.If you will it, dude, it is no dream. -
My take is that if you make a backup of a cd or dvd you purchased then it is ok if you use it for personal use only. You can use it in your car,garage,for a camping trip in the ol' boombox,etc. Makes sense not to use your good copy, it will eventually get scratched at some point switching out between all the different equipment.
Streaming is a good alternative so you can let friends have a listen but there is so much stream capture software out there that your friends can use you as a source to obtain whatever music you have. Plus, when you stream any type of media there are temp files left so you actually have the file on your computer anyway. Either way it is just another loop hole to be exploited.
Now what about when you buy a new realease online from BlockBuster video for $18.00 or BlueRay for $31.00 that you download to your computer.....can you make a backup of that and put it on a dvd to watch on your home system.....NO? Can you convert the file to another format,NO. You can only make a backup of the media in the original format that you downloaded it in. My feelings are that I bought it and if my hd fails I stand to lose hundreds, even thousands of dollars worth of digital media. I now own the media since I purchased it so I should be able to do whatever I want to with it for my own personal use.
So what about these sites that "stream" new releases that are in the movie theaters. You are not downloading anything and you are doing nothing more than watching a video like on youtube or your favorite pron site. You can just stream it to your tv and bam, break out the pop corn and enjoy the movie. You can watch without actually breaking any laws since you do not have physical or digital posession of the file. Kinda tricky if you ask me. -
Streaming is a good alternative so you can let friends have a listen but there is so much stream capture software out there that your friends can use you as a source to obtain whatever music you have. Plus, when you stream any type of media there are temp files left so you actually have the file on your computer anyway. Either way it is just another loop hole to be exploited.
I assume they use some sort of proprietary encryption for most of these types of things to avoid what you're talking about. Either way, it's completely legal so I'm not going to avoid it just because I'm afraid someone might exploit it in an illegal way.If you will it, dude, it is no dream. -
I have to admit that at one time I downloaded music and burned cd's to listen while in the car. The poor quality of sound is somewhat masked by the road noise!
I don't make cd's anymore but I still find "new to me" music and download a few of the more popular songs...store them on my mp3 player and then give them a listen while at the gym. If I like what I hear I order a cd or 2 from the artist. I guess in part I'm still breaking the law but at the same time I do frequently buy the artist's materials(or even attend their concerts) so I really don't feel bad about this and I avoid buying cd's that I thought I might like but turns out only a song or 2 really appeal to me.
If a friend asks for a copy of a cd I have I'll make it...normally they will in turn go out and buy that cd anyway just to have the cd inserts. So, I guess in the long run my friends and I are breaking the law but we still support the artists!Yep, my name really is Bob.
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I used to download stuff just so I could listen and get a feel for the artist and if I liked their stuff I'd go buy the CD. I've discovered quite a few new group that way, all of which I've fully supported in buying their CDs.
Nowadays though, I can find most stuff I want to listen to online, through band websites, myspace websites, samples on Amazon, etc. I currently don't even have a sharing program installed, I'm always able to find 'legal' ways to sample music. -
Just downloading music from the internet is not illegal. There are many legitimate sites and bands that freely post thier own music with the intention of allowing others to freely download it. So just sharing over the internet is NOT illegal.
Downloading music that is copy written and not intended to be shared over the internet is.
Creating backups of media you purchased for your own personal use? I feel that's fair use. As long as you're not distributing that copy to others then I don't feel its wrong.
I'll rip my CDs to play on my iPod, or my HT or the DVD to play on my iPod or XBox360. I don't have an issue with that. I can only listen on one place at a time.
I purchased the right to play that music and I am not taking any money away from the artists by converting to a usable format or creating a backup. If I couldn't play the CD on anything but a CD player-I certainly wouldn't be paying again to hear it on my iPod-Again, the artists are not losing any money from me.
I have no problem lending my CD to a friend to listen to. If they like it they can buy their own copy. Just like I may lend a friend some cables or speakers or some other audio gear-if they like it they can buy it or buy their own. To me its an evaluation-How many companies let you try before you buy? Many-especially software companies.
Is it any different if I buy a CD, then sell or even give the CD away to a friend? Is that illegal? I think not.
Oh and CD sales (and online music retail sales) is not the only source of income for artists. They make money from touring, from appearances, radio stations, etc. So they're not going to starve like some would like you to think.____________________
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Pool: Atrium 60's/45's -
Oh and CD sales (and online music retail sales) is not the only source of income for artists. They make money from touring, from appearances, radio stations, etc. So they're not going to starve like some would like you to think.
Relevance? Stealing 30 bucks in gas from a local station isn't going to bankrupt ExxonMobil; try telling that to the judge.If you will it, dude, it is no dream. -
I didn't say that to justify any illegal activity, did I? No. absolutely not! You make it like I said that to justify such action.
I said it because every time a discussion like this comes up, its always mentioned that illegally sharing music will cause the artists to be unable to provide for their children and the inability for them to continue to make music or to perform for our entertainment.
The relevance is to clarify that it's not whether the artist can or cannot survive but the legality of music sharing or the legality of personal backups/format changes to suit the media purchaser.____________________
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Pool: Atrium 60's/45's -
I agree that Simplify Media is a cool idea for sure and I may even check it out, but how is it any different than www.movie6.net ? Do you all think that site is ok or do you all feel it is just using a loophole to listen/watch media you did not pay for? After all that site is just indexing as well. Stuff like this triggers my "grey area" detector. Since Pandora is going to be shut down in the near future possibly I wonder what will be in store for similar applications. I wonder what actions the Copyright Royalty Board will take against Simplify Media in the future, or if they will implement some sort of "tax". Heck, bittorrent sites have been shut down left and right for just indexing files so I wondering if programs like this will follow......hmmm, only time will tell I suppose.
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Great insight! Thank you gentlemen. Here's a follow up question. Any of you with the "High End" CD players, can you hear a difference between the CD and a Lossless copy playing from you computer? Do any of you have your music libraries backed up in a computer? Have any of you gone completely Digital?Harman Kardon HK 3490
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Do you really not see the difference? Movie6 is streaming movies they don't own to anyone in the world who wants to see it. Simplify streams songs that you own to a select (and limited) group of private friends.
I mean, if you have iTunes on your network, say at work, and you turn on Sharing, anyone in your building can basically do the same thing SimplifyMedia does, right? I haven't heard the RIAA complaining about that either.
Also, I'm pretty sure Pandora got a stay of execution; they lowered or changed the royalty rates on those things.If you will it, dude, it is no dream. -
If I rip one of my cds using EAC,FLAC or Apple lossless it is identical to the original cd. The only way I can hear a difference is when I burn at really fast speeds. If I burn the .flac, .ape or whatever extension it is at 48x speed it does not sound as good to me. Therefore I always burn at 1x or 2x speed. Plus when I burn slow my older NAD cd player will read any of the discs as opposed to when I burn fast and put the disc in my cd player all I hear is static. Newer players do not have this problem that I have run into, they will play almost anything nowadays.
I back up everything on disc. That way it looks like I have thousands of discs when I actually only have half that amount,lol.:rolleyes:
movie6 only indexes where files are, they do not host. This was just an example of thousands of movie sites like this on the net. I do not agree with the site at all, just an observation. -
If I rip one of my cds using EAC,FLAC or Apple lossless it is identical to the original cd. The only way I can hear a difference is when I burn at really fast speeds. If I burn the .flac, .ape or whatever extension it is at 48x speed it does not sound as good to me. Therefore I always burn at 1x or 2x speed. Plus when I burn slow my older NAD cd player will read any of the discs as opposed to when I burn fast and put the disc in my cd player all I hear is static. Newer players do not have this problem that I have run into, they will play almost anything nowadays.
I back up everything on disc. That way it looks like I have thousands of discs when I actually only have half that amount,lol.:rolleyes:
movie6 only indexes where files are, they do not host. This was just an example of thousands of movie sites like this on the net. I do not agree with the site at all, just an observation.
Movie6 will go down eventually too. It facilitates infringement. Check out the Grokster Case online to see what they have in store. It's only a mtter of time. -
it's not illegal in Canada...
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To add to that....
Hypothetically speaking of course -- What if someone approached you with a terrabyte's worth of Lossless Music on an external hard drive? And I'm talking every Artist you liked and then some. Complete discography's of all your favorite artists. Regardless of whether or not you had the physical CD'd you could have a complete digital library at your fingertips in a heartbeat. Would you take a stand against it? Taking it to that level, do you feel it is wrong? Is one Artist/Album any different that their entire catalogue? What if you already owned the cd's and wanted a digitized library but didn't want to take the time and energy to make it happen? Is it still wrong? Again, I am speaking Hypothetically...Harman Kardon HK 3490
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If someone walked up to me with keys to a Mercedes Benz SLR class roadster and stated it was mine. I would feel its wrong, it would kill me but its wrong.
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If I already own the CDs and a friend hands me a hard drive full of lossless copies of that same music, then I have no moral delimna in taking it - I already own the music all it does is save me lots of effort in copying the music.
However, the chances of that ever happening are close to zero...
If I didn't already own the CDs, then I have ethical problems with it, because basically it's stealing, just a more lazy way of doing it on my part.
I don't know what's technically 'legal' or not, but I think we all know what's right and what's wrong. -
Do any of you have your music libraries backed up in a computer?
Have all of my music on physical mediums. Just received an iPod from my sister for my birthday, so I will import so music onto it. However, I will never use a computer to back up my music....shouldn't it be the other way around?
As for the original question, I've seen my sister work to hard to perfect the recording of one line in a song (she was signed to Decca Records in Taiwan for 3 years as an artist and songwriter, now building her own recording studio) to think illegal music/file sharing is good. -
To add to that....
Hypothetically speaking of course --....
...What if you already owned the cd's and wanted a digitized library but didn't want to take the time and energy to make it happen? Is it still wrong? Again, I am speaking Hypothetically...
I thought about that in the past-"Well I technically already bought a license to listen to this music....". And I still feel that way, however I wouldn't take a chance on a torrent download with that mindset, because of the risk of getting tagged by a legal entity hell-bent on looking to prosecute. Of course if I could undeniably prove that I owned the CDs and owned them before the download and ensured that my download didn't also seed to others..I might not have as much reservation, but it would be easier and safer to just rip the CD.
I know there are companies out there that do this now, specifically with DVDs/movies. They provide a fully populated system for you. You pay for it, and I'm sure the company pays royalties for it as well. Just like Rental agencies do. Blockbuster and the like have to pay royalties right?____________________
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Pool: Atrium 60's/45's -
To add to that....
Hypothetically speaking of course -- What if someone approached you with a terrabyte's worth of Lossless Music on an external hard drive? And I'm talking every Artist you liked and then some. Complete discography's of all your favorite artists. Regardless of whether or not you had the physical CD'd you could have a complete digital library at your fingertips in a heartbeat. Would you take a stand against it? Taking it to that level, do you feel it is wrong? Is one Artist/Album any different that their entire catalogue? What if you already owned the cd's and wanted a digitized library but didn't want to take the time and energy to make it happen? Is it still wrong? Again, I am speaking Hypothetically...
Getting media files like this IS (imo) not right. No different than buying copies off the street corner one disc at a time. I am all for a "preview" of an album to see if it is worth a **** though. For the majority of the cds I have heard online that allow a preview of all the songs, there are only a few tracks that are any good. The rest of the cd is just a bunch of filler. And with so many compressed cds as the norm now it is nice to sample a few songs to see what the quality is like before purchase. Even if you owned the cd/dvd and purchased a copy from someone else for your convenience that is still wrong unless it is redbook, then there is no problem. If you don't have the time and energy you could pay someone to do it for you with your own discs or do a trade of some sort for the effort. Personally I like going to flea markets and thrift stores to get cds for anyhwere from .25-$3.00. Alot of cool finds that way and nothing to worry about in the long run. -
AsSiMiLaTeD wrote: »I don't know what's technically 'legal' or not, but I think we all know what's right and what's wrong.
There ya go. We all know when we're taking something that isn't rightfully ours. Whether we think we can justify it with bull like "but sometimes I buy the albums so it's OK", you know you're stealing.
BTW, I don't think something like SimplifyMedia is "wrong" because you don't ever "own" the music, it's just a way to listen to someone else's library on your PC. I can't put it on my iPod or share it with someone else because it's not mine. It's definitely a grey area, but whereas if I downloaded a song from BitTorrent or whatever I KNOW I "did wrong", when I share my library with three friends using Simplify I feel like we're not doing anything bad (and apparently the RIAA agrees as that program has been out for several years now)If you will it, dude, it is no dream. -
I think 'file sharing' is a LOT like 'spreading the wealth around':rolleyes:
They want to FORCE me to share my(little) wealth, then I want something in return.
I'm thinking Jessica Alba for sat. night!:pI refuse to argue with idiots, because people can't tell the DIFFERENCE! -
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The music business sucks. Madison Avenue/Music Industry needs their piece. File sharing has little to do with the artist and a lot to do with their producers. The artist rarely even owns their own music......so do they have to pay too?!?!
If you really want to support the artist, send them a check - especially the ones who are starting out.........art/artists are treated like poo in this country.......no respect. -
BTW - I do buy my music - especially on vinyl - but sometimes I "sample" before I buy..........if I don't like it - its discarded - If I do - I buy it...........before "sampling" existed - I bought a lot of horrible albums......
