What is it about a CD player...

natehack

that can make it better than another?

I have a Yamaha CDC-585, with an optical out. Nothing special.

I love to listen to music, sometimes painfully and sometimes softly.

So, what makes one CD player (same for DVD) better than another?

Would I notice a musical difference if I was to spend money on a different, hopefully better CD spinner? Same with a better DVD player?

I am not worried too much about being able to randomize 5 discs, so a changer is not one of my selling points.

Thanks for the knowledge/opinions.

Early B.

Generally speaking, what makes one consumer good better than another?

Answer -- the quality of the parts.

ben62670

When using a CD player straight to an AVR you have two choices. Analog, or digital. AVR's are coming along fairly nicely, but a good DAC can improve the sound dramatically. AVR's, and Pre's do a whole bunch of things, and the manufactures want to give as many features as possible. This is what sells. The DAC's in an AVR tend to be lacking. Option two is use the analog out on the CD player. Well same story. Until you start spending some coin the CD players tend to be lacking in the DAC section, and the analog section. These are the major differences in lame, great, and everything in between players. I have two cheap Sony changers, and a nice DAC. For the money I am very happy.
Ben

natehack

ben62670 wrote: »

When using a CD player straight to an AVR you have two choices. Analog, or digital. AVR's are coming along fairly nicely, but a good DAC can improve the sound dramatically. AVR's, and Pre's do a whole bunch of things, and the manufactures want to give as many features as possible. This is what sells. The DAC's in an AVR tend to be lacking. Option two is use the analog out on the CD player. Well same story. Until you start spending some coin the CD players tend to be lacking in the DAC section, and the analog section. These are the major differences in lame, great, and everything in between players. I have two cheap Sony changers, and a nice DAC. For the money I am very happy.
Ben

So, when my Denon waxes about its '24bit d/a conversion with reference Burr Brown DACs' they are speaking of the digital to audio conversion eh? Or no?

What are some features of disc players I should look for? DAC? bits? Does your nice DAC mean you have a pre?

I don't know, that is why I ask! Thanks!

natehack

Early B. wrote: »

Answer -- the quality of the parts.

Not taking it YOUR way here:p

What parts are the difference makers?!!?

ben62670

natehack wrote: »

So, when my Denon waxes about its '24bit d/a conversion with reference Burr Brown DACs' they are speaking of the digital to audio conversion eh? Or no?

What are some features of disc players I should look for? DAC? bits? Does your nice DAC mean you have a pre?

I don't know, that is why I ask! Thanks!

Well I am not an expert in this field. I know what works for me. I do not have a lot of experience with different players, but from the experience I have I can offer a little advice. I had an Outlaw 990 which receives rave reviews, but my old school Adcom GDA-700 with older digital chips was much better. The analog section is very good in the Adcom. Yes I a using a Pre, but even with an external DAC hooked up to a receiver you can expect better sound in most cases. What would really help here is budget. What are you looking to spend? SACD a concern? Most AVR's handle DTS movies very well.
Ben

F1nut

There are a host of reasons why. Circuit design, choke regulated power supplies, the actual power supply, the transport, the clock, the DAC, vibration control, linear response and channel separation are but a few.

I'd suggest you go down to your local hifi shop, not BB or CC, but a real hifi store and listen to some.

Early B.

natehack wrote: »

Not taking it YOUR way here:p

What parts are the difference makers?!!?

All of them!

That's kinda like asking what parts in a Rolls Royce make it better than a Hyundai.

F1nut

Early B. wrote: »

That's kinda like asking what parts in a Rolls Royce make it better than a Hyundai.

I was involved in a double blind A/B test with those two vehicles and couldn't tell the difference, it was only when I could see which was which could I pick out the Rolls. Of course, the law of diminishing returns has to be factored in also making the Hyundai a real buy.

natehack

F1nut wrote: »

There are a host of reasons why. Circuit design, choke regulated power supplies, the actual power supply, the transport, the clock, the DAC, vibration control, linear response and channel separation are but a few.

I'd suggest you go down to your local hifi shop, not BB or CC, but a real hifi store and listen to some.

Unfortunately, we in the Cloud of Saints in Minnesota do not have a real hifi shop. Most around these parts seem to be fine with BB and CC making their decisions for them:mad:

natehack

Early B. wrote: »

All of them!

That's kinda like asking what parts in a Rolls Royce make it better than a Hyundai.

Hey, that is why I ask! I do not know or pretend to know about hifi equipment!
Ask about cars or bikes though...

ps: I'd sell the Rolls and buy a real drivers car; BMW M3. :D

natehack

Lasareath wrote: »

Two years ago I could probably not tell if I was listening to a Denon or a Sony because my stereo system was crap. Now that I have better speakers and better amps I can hear the night and day difference between my old Sony ES player and my 4 year old Denon 3910

The difference was night and day, As soon as I hooked up the Denon I was floored by how much better the sound was. There was information I wasn't hearing at all with my Sony.

Then I went from Copper IC's to Ben's Silver IC's and the difference was night and day again.

My question to myself is, I wonder if I could have ever heard a difference in the players and the IC's if I didn't have my speakers or my new amps?

I wish you Good Luck in your Search, To some of us to is what this hobby is all about, tracking down the best gear and tweaking your system to make it sound just a little better than it did last month.

Lasareath

Okay, so most of you run the analogue outs and not the optical out for your cd listening machines? If so, why?

Since I love to listen to music of all types, I would not hesitate to spend 200 to 300 on a cd player of quality if there is a used one around for that price.

Or, would spending 200 to 300 bucks on interconnects and cables be a better choice? I am running some lightning audio 11ga I bought from a shop 8 years ago with monster banana interconnects.

Thanks polkers.

F1nut

By using the optical out you are using the DAC(s) in your AVR. By using the RCA's, you are using the DAC(s) in the CDP, which are usually much better than the one(s) in an AVR.

$200 or $300 won't buy much CDP.

Face

For that kind of coin, I would look into a used Cambridge 540C.

pearsall001

F1nut wrote: »

There are a host of reasons why. Circuit design, choke regulated power supplies, the actual power supply, the transport, the clock, the DAC, vibration control, linear response and channel separation are but a few.

I'd suggest you go down to your local hifi shop, not BB or CC, but a real hifi store and listen to some.

Yo Jesse, you forgot to mention the power cord!!

F1nut

LOL...Yo Phil,

are but a few.

Marty913

F1nut wrote: »

I was involved in a double blind A/B test with those two vehicles and couldn't tell the difference, it was only when I could see which was which could I pick out the Rolls. Of course, the law of diminishing returns has to be factored in also making the Hyundai a real buy.

Isn't a double-blind test drive a little dangerous?

F1nut

It would seem that you missed the humor.

bikezappa

natehack

I wonder how old you are? There maybe a lesson in life for you here.

Rule one trust and educate your ears.

Buy a well respected CD player with a no questions return policy and a second CD of your favoite music. Connect both CD players to tape 1 and tape 2. If you can balance the sound output from each player do this. It is very important when compairing CD players or any other sources to have the same loudness level. Use the same type of interconnects. If you can't balance the loudness then the test may not be valid but you should try it anyway. The louder CD player usually sounds the best.

Next play each CD player with your favorite CD at the same time. Change from tape 1 to tapr 2 and note the difference if any. Try the comparison with differnt tunes and loudness levels. Have a friend do this switching without telling you and see if you can tell which player is which. This is call the blind test.

Possible conclusions:

A. Can't tell any difference because I'm nearly deaf or don't have good hearing.

B. My system sucks and I can't hear any differences.

C. There were no differences between players.

If you are in any of these catorgies return the CD player and spend your money on something else.

D. There are differnces and I can hear them even when I don't know what player in on. That is I can tell what player I'm listening to. Maybe you should buy this player. Maybe you can now educate your ear to audio differnces. Maybe you will start buying other componets. You are in deep **** at this point and maybe considered a nut case.

Have a blast.

dc55110

natehack wrote: »

Unfortunately, we in the Cloud of Saints in Minnesota do not have a real hifi shop. Most around these parts seem to be fine with BB and CC making their decisions for them:mad:

Next time you in the Mpls area you should stop by Audio Perfection. They are located in Richfield on Lyndale ave, about 10 blocks north of 494. They are extremely knowledgeable, very friendly and there is absolutely no pretensiousness (sp). They will answer all your quest, let you demo anything (and I mean anything) and let you loiter for hours.

ben62670

bikezappa wrote: »

natehack

I wonder how old you are? There maybe a lesson in life for you here.

Rule one trust and educate your ears.

Buy a well respected CD player with a no questions return policy and a second CD of your favoite music. Connect both CD players to tape 1 and tape 2. If you can balance the sound output from each player do this. It is very important when compairing CD players or any other sources to have the same loudness level. Use the same type of interconnects. If you can't balance the loudness then the test may not be valid but you should try it anyway. The louder CD player usually sounds the best.

Next play each CD player with your favorite CD at the same time. Change from tape 1 to tapr 2 and note the difference if any. Try the comparison with differnt tunes and loudness levels. Have a friend do this switching without telling you and see if you can tell which player is which. This is call the blind test.

Possible conclusions:

A. Can't tell any difference because I'm nearly deaf or don't have good hearing.

B. My system sucks and I can't hear any differences.

C. There were no differences between players.

If you are in any of these catorgies return the CD player and spend your money on something else.

D. There are differnces and I can hear them even when I don't know what player in on. That is I can tell what player I'm listening to. Maybe you should buy this player. Maybe you can now educate your ear to audio differnces. Maybe you will start buying other componets. You are in deep **** at this point and maybe considered a nut case.

Have a blast.

Some good advice here. I would use DVD, and CD inputs. Some tape inputs are designed for a lower level signal. Also keep in mind if your IC's are different that you may hear a difference. You may wish to swap the IC's between players, and see what you can hear, or not hear.
Ben

reeltrouble1

My advice is to quit wanking around and buy a quality source player.

For you I pick a Jolida, a Rega or a Consanance, the only other option would be a quality DAC and keep your POS player. Most on-line companies give you a 30 day trial period.

RT1

Face

If you like the forward sound of your Yammy, check out Cambridge.

janmike

There is a direct correlation between eventually hearing a good CDP and saving money for that, or an equivalent, player.

BlueFox

Get a $69 DVD player with digital output (assuming it can play CDs), and a DAC1 for $975. Now you have one of the best sounding CD players money can buy.

F1nut

How much money would you like to bet on that?

tonyb

BlueFox wrote: »

Get a $69 DVD player with digital output (assuming it can play CDs), and a DAC1 for $975. Now you have one of the best sounding CD players money can buy.

Oh dear god......have we learned nothing here??

You put 1000 bucks worth of tires on a beater,it's still a beater.
See post #7,Jesse explains this very well.

Systems

BlueFox wrote: »

Get a $69 DVD player with digital output (assuming it can play CDs), and a DAC1 for $975. Now you have one of the best sounding CD players for the money.

I made a slight correction.The results should be very good as the DAC 1 is a giant killer and having a sample rate converter at it's input makes the choice of transport less critical.

BlueFox

tonyb wrote: »

Oh dear god......have we learned nothing here??

You put 1000 bucks worth of tires on a beater,it's still a beater.

Apparently, you have not learned anything.

F1nut

I don't know about you Tony, but I learned that some folks don't want to hear the truth. The real shame in that is the sage advice given so freely here just buzzes the tower.

Sherardp

Isnt it true to maximize reference CD playback you use analog cables instead of digital. Like for instance I have a Marantz CDp connected over analog in order to use Burr Brown Dacs, is this the best connection or is best to run optical?