SDA 2 Vs Monitor 12

Braddles

Well its nearly been 20 years since i first got into this bloody stuff but i finally got the speakers i wanted in the first place but couldnt afford.

Found some 2a's on ebay and the guy only lived 30 mins from me.
Got them home and did some interesting back to back with my mon 12's.

The 12's are a great speaker i dicovered. I stuffed around for a couple of hours trying different set ups and the 2a's have great sound stage but the 12's have a fuller sound. The 2a's are more musical but the 12's have more grunt.

I was very surprised. I thought the SDA's would blow the 12's away but they hold their own very well.

I suspect when i get some more wpc behind them ( the luxman only 70wpc ) i may see a greater difference.

I am bringing home a new Quad 99/909 pre/power combo home to try tomorrow (140 wpc into 8) so that may stir things a bit.

Will report. Will put up photos.

For now though at least i can say i've got some SDA's at last!:)

Braddles

What sort of power sould i be looking at to get the best out of the 2a's?

Is 150wpc into 8 enough?

I got the owners man with them and set them up as they instucted.

The man said use 16 guage cables. I have 12. Is it worth looking at getting bigger cables or have things changed a bit since then?

What type of RDO tweeter do i need to use in these?

Cheers guys.

F1nut

That should be a good start.

It's always worth getting quality cables. Look beyond the gauge factor, look into real cables.

You want the RD0194-1 tweeters to replace your SL2000's.

Braddles

Well ive had a bit of a win.

I sweet talked some dealers and have some new amps to play with for the weeked.

Quad 99/909

Rotel RB-1080

Bel Canto S300i

So thats me for the weekend. Have some serious compo's to do.

Keep you posted..........

Braddles

Lasareath wrote: »

Braddles,

SDA is only another technology. You are not comparing apples to apples.

The 12's have (4) 6.5" drivers, you need to compare the 12's against a pair of SDA 1C's

Lasareath

I aggree with you but i still thought there would be more of a difference than there was. There was over 1K price difference here when new.

Sucks to be me hey! I have both now!

I am about to unpack the new amps to try so we will see what that brings.

HB27

Being new to the SDA world I can report the majority of my knowledge in a short time.
Placement is extremely critical with the SDA. More so than the M12 which IMHO is a killer speaker also. The tweeter alignment with the SDA is more crucial than I ever imagined for the SDA effect to be fully realized. Spacing from the wall is also critical for proper bass reproduction. You'll also need a couple of feet (meter) of side clearance on the cabinets to utilize the bass properly also. Keep the space betweet the cabinets as clear as possible.
Your room is a lot of the sound with the SDA also. All the "neat little tricks" you've surely read about over the last few years are going to come in handy now that you've got your SDAs.
Your amplification is going to be another area of "tweaking" as are good cables and wires. YES, they definitely do make a difference.
I've found the SDA is another technology and it takes a bit of learning to maximize it's potential.
Congrats on the new speakers.
Harry

Braddles

OK.

Unpacked the Quad and Rotel amps and set them up. I could only get a quad 99 pre as the rotel dealer didnt have a pre to give me but i didnt mind as i can run both amps through 99 and see the difference.

They are both brand new so neither run-in. Just turned them on for 30 mins to warm up.

The Quad gear is compact and sold contruction (cast finish).

Im no reveiwer but the quad sounded a little more forward sounding and a tad more musical. I could hear a little more detail in the music and the instruments sounded a little more real. Soundstage a little wider as well.

I played Sting "Englishmen in new york" a few times and changed between the two amps. Not the best way to do things i know but i got good at changing ic's and cables pretty quick.
Anyway with the quad i could hear more of the little things in the music clearer and sharper. I keep saying "little" because there isn't alot in it.

One thing that made the quad sound a little better is on the same volume setting it was louder than the rotel. Every time i hooked up the rotel i had to up the volume 2 point to get a similar level. Why would that be?

The Rotel is a little more punchy in the lowend and a bit warmer sounding.
I suppose the extra wpc would explain why it also seems a bit more grunty.
The sound was a bit further back too.

I only got to play for a couple of hours tonite. Will do more serious stuffing around tomorrow. I think i will hook up the monitor 12's to do the rest of my testing as im used to how they sound. I want to concetrate on how the amps sound.

Not much of a review guys im affraid but will do more later.

zingo

Finding a high quality amp is important, but like Las was saying, you are comparing two speakers which really don't have too much in common. You would be better with Mon12 vs 1C or SRS2, or 2A vs Mon10. That way you can more correctly test the SDA vs non-SDA speakers, if that is truly what you are trying to compare.

Braddles

Here's some shots for ya.

zingo

I always forget how hot the 12s are. Nice pictures and nice amps.

Braddles

To be honest im not sure i like the SDA effect at this stage. (am i allowed to say that here?) It is very 3 dementional but a bit hollow or thin sounding. I disconnected the SDA cable and i think i prefer it that way. They remind me of my first pair of monitor 10's. I set them up buy the manual. They are 9ft apart and i sit 13ft from them. They are pointing straight ahead.
Should i pull them a bit forward so there is less things inbetween them?
Any other tips to what i could try?

F1nut

Set them up 6 to 8 feet apart, 6 inches from the back wall, no toe in and at least 3 feet from any side wall. You want to be sitting about equal to the distance between the speakers. Make sure that the amps you are trying are common ground. You'll know it's right when you hear a wide soundstage with everything in it's own space instead of being jumbled up in between like conventional speakers.

HB27

Keep the space/area between the tweeters clear. Important on mine. Aligning the cabinets was a really big help on the SDA effect. I used a laser to align mine. The difference is astounding when aligned. They have a very remarkable "sweet spot" when aligned.
Nice gear and set up.
Harry

Braddles

I just went a measured them. They are 6ft8" appart. 8" off the back wall. More than 3ft from the side walls.

zingo

The set-up looks OK, but is your amp common ground like Jesse said?

Ron Temple

I've done side by side with my 1Cs and 2Bs. Your comments about a hollow midrange are probably related to alignment. The 2Bs midrange in my room is extremely wide, but narrower top to bottom than the 1Cs...maybe that's what you're noticing vs. the 4 driver alignment of the M12s. I wouldn't give up on the dimensional drivers just yet. Without them I'd think the 2As would be at a serious disadvantage over the M12s.

tx_polkhead

Damn those M12 look HOT! Now I'm really sorry I didn't have the cash to pick up the pair listed in the local CL.
Abel

Braddles

zingo wrote: »

The set-up looks OK, but is your amp common ground like Jesse said?

How do i tell if the amps are common ground? (read above for which amps i have)

ben62670

Take a multi meter across the ground terminals on the amps you should have near zero ohms.

Braddles

So are dual mono's a no no for sda's? Im trying a Belcanto S300i class D tomorrow which is a dual mono intergrated amp.

thsmith

Braddles wrote: »

Here's some shots for ya.

What kind of stand are under the M12s?

Nice setup.

Braddles

No stands just 2 angled bits of wood to give the speaker a bit of tilt backwards. That is what they came with new.

Cheers

thsmith

Braddles wrote: »

No stands just 2 angled bits of wood to give the speaker a bit of tilt backwards. That is what they came with new.

Cheers

Thanks, can you share the measurements ?

ben62670

Braddles wrote: »

So are dual mono's a no no for sda's? Im trying a Belcanto S300i class D tomorrow which is a dual mono intergrated amp.

It depends on the design of the amp. Some mono's are based on a bridged topology. These are a no no. You need to call them manufacture, and find out if you can tie the speaker grounds together on the amp.
Ben

Braddles

Well after 3 days of much stuffing around with cables, amps and speakers we finally have a outcome we are happy with.

I decided to hook my Mon 12's back up while i was changing between amps because i was doing my head in trying hear the difference between amps as well as getting used to the SDA effect. It certainly helped. Almost like putting your fav pair of jeans on.

I got a freind to bring his Bel Canto S300i amp over to try out. I was really looking forward to this as i have read plenty of good things about them and besides that they look pretty cool.
Well to say i was dissaponted would be a understament. Dry, dry and bone bloody dry would be the best way i could describe the sound. It was all there mind you. Great highs , good tight bass with acceptable mids. Just dry as a nuns >>>..........
It prob wouldnt have been as noticable if i just heard it by itself but compared to the Quad it seemed rather thin and not as involving.

I am keeping the Quad 99/909 combo. Great mids, good sound stage both wide and deep, vocals are alive and clear, bass is nice and tight without there being gobs of it.

I like to listen to almost any type of music and the i found the Quad gave me the best results when listening to Christopher Cross or AC/DC.

All i can say is thank god thats all over with and i can now get on with working on getting the best out of these SDA 2's

Thanks for listening and for your help.

Brad

Braddles

Hey here is another one for ya. Im thinking of swapping the PR's on the 2a's and the 12's and see what changes. Any bets on what the result will be?

F1nut

Do NOT do that, period.

Braddles

Ok then.

HB27

I must not be real good at doing comparisons. It usually takes me a few days listening to different components trying to pick out their subtle differences UNLESS there is a night/day difference in them. I usually try to give all the comparison pieces a good listen on as many types of source as possible before switching around and then go back and forth quicker for the positive or negative aspects. I learned I'd occasionally miss a few nuances doing the "hit and run" comparisons. There's so many variables with cables, placement, source materials that I've given the comparison gear a better "test drive" before coming to final conclusions.
That Quad is darned nice looking though.
Harry

Braddles

HB27 wrote: »

I must not be real good at doing comparisons. It usually takes me a few days listening to different components trying to pick out their subtle differences UNLESS there is a night/day difference in them. I usually try to give all the comparison pieces a good listen on as many types of source as possible before switching around and then go back and forth quicker for the positive or negative aspects. I learned I'd occasionally miss a few nuances doing the "hit and run" comparisons. There's so many variables with cables, placement, source materials that I've given the comparison gear a better "test drive" before coming to final conclusions.
That Quad is darned nice looking though.
Harry

What 3 days not enough you reckon. i can assure you this was no "hit and run exersise. Im not changing my source, for a while anyway, as i just got a new CDP. I would have thought if you are going to demo some different amps that you would best do this with the components it's going to be partnered with at least for the time being. Naturally there will be other upgrades to come in the future but who can do all the upgrades at once?

You cant have read my post to well because i said i changed back and forth that many times i got quite quick at it. I had a set of tracks i assigned for this project that gave me a wide range of music from good vocal tracks to rock to R&B to live tracks. All of which i've listen to a thousand times on a system ive had for 18 odd years. I played them over and over and over again. I even gave each amp a go of just leaving it on for a couple of hours and just did some other things around the house and kept "checking in" on them just to give my ears (and mind) a break and see what i thought of them when i walked back into the room. Again i thought this was a sound method.

I also said in an earlier post that the difference between the Rotel and the Quad was only subtle. The Bel Canto not so. But i expected more of a difference as it was the only one which was a different class of amp.

Speaking of which i am going to try the bel canto again with a upgraded power cord. The agent said it can make a big difference with digital amps.
So we will see.

Lastly mate, my wife was very good to me giving me the time to do all this while she kept our 2 & 4 year old boys out of my hair (whats left of it)
for 3 days & most of the nites. Can't complain too much and im satisfied i got the best result with the time and resorces i had. Not too many people get to take home 7K worth of amps home to play with for the weekend. I was very lucky and i think i made the most of it that i could.

Cheers

thsmith

Brad, how is the testing going?

BTW, thanks for your help on the M12 stands. My 12s are so pristine I am not ready to drill holes in the bottem but I used your measurements and added a MDF top for the M12 to sit on.

Just need to paint them.

Not sure the M12s get a lot of repect here but I sure like them.