LSi, Rotel 1075, PSW650?

infinitiqx4
infinitiqx4 Posts: 80
edited January 2003 in Speakers
What do you think of this?

LSi15, LSIc, LSiFX
Rotel 1075 (200x5 @ 4ohm)
Sony ES receiver
PSW 650

Is that 650 sub going to keep up with 200x5?

Any other opinions of this setup?
Post edited by infinitiqx4 on
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Comments

  • LiquidSound
    LiquidSound Posts: 1,261
    edited January 2003
    I'd hold out for the PSW808.
    Two Channel Main
    Receiver - VSX-54TX
    Mains - Csi40's
    Sub - Spiked Velodyne Cht-8 On Spiked Landscaping Stones

    "If you could put speakers in a needle, I'd never see him again..." - My Girlfriend
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  • infinitiqx4
    infinitiqx4 Posts: 80
    edited January 2003
    I already have a PSW650... that's all I've got right now ;-) We'll all wait and see on this, but other discussions sound like upgrading from 650 to 808 probably isn't that much difference.
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  • LiquidSound
    LiquidSound Posts: 1,261
    edited January 2003
    Ahh, I thought these were all going to be new purchases.
    Two Channel Main
    Receiver - VSX-54TX
    Mains - Csi40's
    Sub - Spiked Velodyne Cht-8 On Spiked Landscaping Stones

    "If you could put speakers in a needle, I'd never see him again..." - My Girlfriend
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  • phuz
    phuz Posts: 2,372
    edited January 2003
    Not sure about the Sony ES. Why not go with a Rotel pre/pro or receiver as well?

    Otherwise, everything is kosher. That 650 may not be able to keep up at really high volumes.
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  • infinitiqx4
    infinitiqx4 Posts: 80
    edited January 2003
    Why? Cause a rotel pre/pro (the 1066) costs 1500, while the 4ES can be had for 700. Going with just a Rotel receiver like the 1065 doesn't have anywhere near the quality or quantity of amplification of the dedicated amp (and costs 2000).

    The receiver with all internal amplification turned off should be very clean I assume, yes? If you don't like Sony ES- then what would you suggest WITHOUT spending more than say 1000. Whatever receiver should have defeatable internal amps, potential for 7.1, 2x zones, correct bass management, etc.
    -HK520
    -Denon 3803
    -Yamaha
    -...

    BTW, I've also spent some time on Club Rotel, and the 1066 has some issues.
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  • Frank Z
    Frank Z Posts: 5,860
    edited January 2003
    You can get an outlaw for a lot less than the rotel.
    9/11 - WE WILL NEVER FORGET!! (<---<<click)
    2005-06 Club Polk Football Pool Champion!! :D
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  • phuz
    phuz Posts: 2,372
    edited January 2003
    I never said you had to get anything brand new or at retail prices. ;)

    You can get a really nice pre/pro for <$1000 - or even <$700.

    Check out Marantz, Outlaw, Arcam, NAD, Adcom, Pioneer Elite, and so on. Or stick with the Sony ES. Whatever sounds best to you. Just don't let retail prices on mfg. websites influence you. Anything can be had with 10% off retail, and most stuff you can get at 20% off or sometimes much more off of retail.

    I'll have to agree with ATCVenom, matching is important. I tried mixing an adcom pre with a Rotel amp once, and it sounded like ****!
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  • jmierzur
    jmierzur Posts: 489
    edited January 2003
    First, some questions.

    What is the size of the listening room?
    What are your listening habits (loud etc., etc.)?

    Some thoughts...

    Are you planing on configuring the LSi15 as large and the LSiC and LSiFX as small? If the LSi15 are being configured as small, have you considered the LSi9 AND another PSW650 sub.

    I have the 9's driven by a Rotel RB-980BX (RB-1070 current model) and RMB-1075 for surround channels and two subs.

    If you are going to spend $700 for a receiver as a pre/pro, maybe this purchase can wait until you can save-for/find/decide-on a good quality dedicated pre/pro to match the other components you are considering. This should produce better results than using the pre/pro of a receiver.
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  • infinitiqx4
    infinitiqx4 Posts: 80
    edited January 2003
    Thanks for responding guys. Now, to answer some q's

    This will be for a 1 bedroom apartment (haven't picked the exact one, but most in my price range are similar layout), so that explains the following:
    1. Room will be around 14x18 with at least two large doors closed, two large windows closed, and one entire open wall to the kitchen (another 8x10).
    2. I like loud... but there will be neighbors! I'm 21, but they're not.
    3. I like to feel the music, bass and drums should hit hard but be tight.
    4. I was thinking to run the LSi15 as Large, so the PSW650 would be taking over for C and FX during HT duty. During music I hope the LSi15 will sound good enough on their own.
    5. Duty will be mostly music off the computer. Stuff like Incubus and Rusted Root. Add in some prime time HDTV and a weekly DVD, but at least a few hours a day of music playing while I'm studying (moderate volume most of the time).
    6. I thought about 9s on dual 650s. But with mostly music duty, would it just sound better to have large towers playing WITHOUT subs? Already having one 650 with my current system I know how musical the sub is, but I usually assume the KISS principle (keep it simple stupid).

    True, I don't want to spend 1500 for a pre/pro and 1000 for an amp. I don't mind shelling out 1000 for clean power- but what does that 1500 do? Basic 5.1 decoding for DVD. Mostly just passing through a stereo signal. I really need some suggestions on the pre/pro it sounds like.

    And agreed- I hate retail prices. But I'd prefer new.

    ->What pre/pro and amp would you suggest?
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  • infinitiqx4
    infinitiqx4 Posts: 80
    edited January 2003
    This is another alternative I'd chopped out previously but should bring up:
    -Sony 4ES (or other receiver) using internal amplification
    -RTi150
    -CSi40
    -FXi50
    -PSW650

    This comes back to the RTi150 vs LSi15 debate we've all read. I obviously am leaning towards LSi15 and willing to add the real amp power to drive them (honestly, if the RTI setup is like 3100, why not do LSi with real power for say 4300?)
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  • infinitiqx4
    infinitiqx4 Posts: 80
    edited January 2003
    The other important issue- this system has big shoes to fill. If it doesn't sound better than my car, I'm gonna be pissed. The IASCA competition-ready stereo is:
    -Premier 930 head unit (same as Pioneer Elite, but for car. Top of line)
    -MB Quart Q series 6.5/tweeter (MB Quart's top of line)
    -2 JL Audio 12W3 subs in sealed 1.25 ft^2 box
    -Rockford amp 187.5x2 to the highs
    -Rockford amp 400x2 to the subs
    -lots of other stuff, but that's the important sound equipment

    If you are familiar with MB Quart, then you know it is top notch. I easily picked it over Polk car audio, but kept it in the back of my head I wanted Polk for my house ever since. But the Q series MB Quart tweeters are titanium and very accurate (I think for home I'd want something smoother).

    I've been using Pioneer receivers in the car for my last 4 stereos- good stuff. I would obviously consider Pioneer Elite in my house.
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  • organ
    organ Posts: 4,969
    edited January 2003
    Why not try that Technics pre/pro which I believe is just a little over $200 street price. This should be better and cheaper than using a receiver. The pre/pro has DD and DTS. This is what I may go for and spend the bigger load of $ on the amps. I heard the folks at AudioAsylum and AudioReview saying good things about the Technics pre/pro.

    Maurice
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  • jmierzur
    jmierzur Posts: 489
    edited January 2003
    Originally posted by infinitiqx4
    4. I was thinking to run the LSi15 as Large, so the PSW650 would be taking over for C and FX during HT duty. During music I hope the LSi15 will sound good enough on their own.

    6. I thought about 9s on dual 650s. But with mostly music duty, would it just sound better to have large towers playing WITHOUT subs? Already having one 650 with my current system I know how musical the sub is, but I usually assume the KISS principle (keep it simple stupid).

    True, I don't want to spend 1500 for a pre/pro and 1000 for an amp. I don't mind shelling out 1000 for clean power- but what does that 1500 do? Basic 5.1 decoding for DVD. Mostly just passing through a stereo signal. I really need some suggestions on the pre/pro it sounds like.

    The other important issue- this system has big shoes to fill. If it doesn't sound better than my car, I'm gonna be pissed.

    4) Does the LSi15 have the LF extension you desire?

    6) What's wrong with 9's and sub(s)? Try it with your existing sub. If you do not get what you desire, get another.
    -MB Quart Q series 6.5/tweeter (MB Quart's top of line)
    -2 JL Audio 12W3 subs in sealed 1.25 ft^2 box

    Would you buy a lesser head unit for your car?
    -Premier 930 head unit (same as Pioneer Elite, but for car. Top of line)


    Just some observations.
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  • infinitiqx4
    infinitiqx4 Posts: 80
    edited January 2003
    Originally posted by jmierzur
    4) Does the LSi15 have the LF extension you desire?

    -> I haven't auditioned them yet. Finally found a place, but its an hour away. The other floor towers with multiple 6s or 8 usually please me for stereo and I prefer it over subs- that's my only basis at this point. It assures a smooth transition (cause there isn't one).

    6) What's wrong with 9's and sub(s)? Try it with your existing sub. If you do not get what you desire, get another.

    -> I used to dislike the PSW650. Lately I've found some great settings for it. I think it also helps that it is in the corner, but right next to a mattress that dampens. It now sounds very clean and with the volume all the way down to 3 it fits in pretty well with the rest of the stereo. Gives oomph, but fits.

    -> You guys are making this sound realistic to me with 9/sub. I just have always assumed simpler was better.

    2 JL Audio 12W3 subs in sealed 1.25 ft^2 box

    -> Did you quote that cause I have insane 800 watts of sub power? I do keep it turned down most of the time and the JL Audio W3 has great sound quality. Plus the power to hit 150dB (yes, I actually listen to music at 130+ daily in my car and still have hearing). But I won't be booming that much in an apartment.

    Would you buy a lesser head unit for your car?
    -Premier 930 head unit (same as Pioneer Elite, but for car. Top of line)

    -> No. But that head unit was around $500 and it acts as the CD source as well (granted Pioneer lists at $890). Huge difference in prices. The head unit does tons of sound fields and processing that I don't want. I know none of us wants to listen to all that junk- we want it as pure as it can be. I certainly think paying tons of money for internal amplification and sound fields is a waste. We just want proper decoding, bass mangement, and possibly equalization if its done right. Does this exist?

    -> BTW, you guys have any good HTPC links? What about going receiverless? No, I'm not joking either. I'll start researching quality 5 channel sound cards to feed the Rotel 1075. Especially if I did this LSi9/dual subs thing I wouldn't have to worry as much about bass management right? I could use the PSW650 to filter to the 9s and run the combo as large and everything else as small. ;)

    Thanks everybody. How about more on the 9s/ subs jmierzur? How exactly do you have everything connected?
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  • infinitiqx4
    infinitiqx4 Posts: 80
    edited January 2003
    Originally posted by organ
    Why not try that Technics pre/pro which I believe is just a little over $200 street price. This should be better and cheaper than using a receiver. The pre/pro has DD and DTS. This is what I may go for and spend the bigger load of $ on the amps. I heard the folks at AudioAsylum and AudioReview saying good things about the Technics pre/pro.

    Maurice

    Anyone else agree with this? Do you have a model number or link for this? This sounds much more appropriate to feed the amp (though I certainly would pay more than $200).
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  • jmierzur
    jmierzur Posts: 489
    edited January 2003
    Background

    95% of my listening habits are from two channel sources. The main components that I use are a Sony CD player and a Shaw digital set top box that has 40 channels of digital music.

    Pre Amps

    I have two distinct pre-amps; RC-980BX and SDP-E800. The 980 is a two channel pre-amp. The 800 is a multi-channel pre/pro that has three digital (DVD player) and one analog (VCR) input. The 800 only accepts and decodes Dolby ProLogic and Dolby Digital sources.

    Power Amps

    The 1075 amp is supplied from the 800 pre/pro for the center and side surround channels. The 980 amp is supplied from either the 980 pre OR 800 pre/pro. I mainly listen to the two channel sources, so I swap the front L+R between the 980 pre and 800 pre/pro.

    Sub Connections

    The 980 amp powers the 9's.

    For two channel audio, the subs receive their signal from the speaker level inputs. I tried using the second set of line level outputs from the 980 pre connected to the line level inputs of the subs. The best overall presentation was produced by using the speaker level connections.

    For multi-channel audio, the LFE output on the 800 pre/pro is split and sent to the LFE input of each sub. The 9's (main) are set to small.

    Future

    I have considered purchasing a new pre/pro for my system. This would eliminate the cable swapping. The reason that I have not purchased one is that a new one would not give me much more than I already have.

    I will be replacing the pre amps with something in the future. I have a feeling that it will be a card based pre/pro (Lexicon, new Rotel etc.) that would be upgradeable. I also do not want to degrade the two channel performance by getting a lesser quality pre/pro. Two channel is very important to me.

    If I want DD EX now, I will find an old receiver that has pre outs and use that processor to generate the back surround channel(s) to supply the 1075 amp and purchase the LSi7 as the back surround speakers.

    At this point, I can wait for the next generation of multi-channel formats (true 7.1, not 5:1.1 like DD EX; DTS does have a true 6.1 format) to appear before I purchase a new pre/pro. My sound room is wired for 10.2 (actually 12 possible speaker locations) should the opportunity present itself.

    At this point, my next purchase will be a Sony 50" Grand Wega HDTV to match the audio system.

    RT vs LSi

    This is my opinion only. Others may have experienced different results and formulated different opinions.

    I have not found a musical format that sounds worse on the LSi series. I have used the digital cable box to sample: classical, jazz, pop, 60's, 70's 80's, light rock, rock, hard rock, hip-hop, crap (sorry, I mean rap), ambient, new age, etc., etc...

    The LSi series are more revealing that the RT series. If the source (music or components) has limitations, you will hear it. I find this dissappointing on some older music, as I can hear the limitations of the recording. But in no measure does this limit my enjoyment of the music, as I know that I am hearing all (most of?) that is to be retrieved from the recording.

    The RT series is not refined enough to reproduce all the fine nauances of music. The RT series ARE great speakers; I have used them for many years and will continue to reccommend them to anyone. My Monitor 10's will never be sold.

    Hope my rambling helps. I may edit for spelling/clarity if required.
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  • infinitiqx4
    infinitiqx4 Posts: 80
    edited January 2003
    jmierzur,

    how do you feel about a single sub versus dual subs? I always thought there would be no reason to do subs in stereo.
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  • organ
    organ Posts: 4,969
    edited January 2003
    Sorry, I missed your reply there infinityqx4. I just found out that they're discontinued, but I'm sure you can find a whole bunch on ebay. The model # is SH-AC500D. Here's a link for the reviews @ audioreview.com http://www.audioreview.com/A-V+Preamplifier/Technics+SH-AC500D/PRD_118088_2719crx.aspx

    The only problem is that they only accept digital connections. If you like using the analog rca's for your music, you're screwed.

    Maurice
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