CHEAP BR Player

apphd

Not sure of the quality of this but if you are in the market for a cheap BR player and a Ratshack SPL meter this might be a deal.

Sylvania BluRay player $199 after $50 mail in rebate. I think the rebate ends up being a pre-paid CC that needs to be used @ Ratshack
http://www.radioshack.com/sm-buy-the-sylvania-nb501sl9-blu-ray-dvd-player-on-http--pi-3239755.html

Think I'm going to hold out to see the Oppo.

Is this a sign prices on BR are finally going to drop, or just signs of the economy?

Ron-P

From what I can see it does not decode any of the HD audio formats, no DTS-MA or TrueHD, waste of $200 as I see it.

apphd

I agree Ron the Ratshack description does not say but some other retailers list that it does. Something to verify for sure before dropping the coin.
Also see where some are predicting many 1.1 profile units will go for $150 during Black Friday sales.

Features
Blu-Ray/DVD
Plays BD Video, BD-RE (Signal/Dual), BD-R (Signal/Dual), DVD Video, DVD-R/RW, CD-R/RW, Audio CD, DTS-CD, HD JPEG.
Profile 1.1 picture-in-picture option
HDMI Full-HD 1080p resolution with 24p / 60p Output fps
HDMI 1080p Up-conversion Output
Progressive Scan Video Output
HDMI ver. 1.3 support
Deep Color Processing
HDMI Auido Output
Dolby Digital, Dolby Digital Plus, Dolby Digital Lossless, Dolby TrueHD, DTS, DTS HD, Linear PCM
Advanced User Interface
Screen Saver
Virtual Surround System

billbillw

I believe this is essentially the same model as the Insignia from BestBuy (which will be on sale for $199 starting Sunday). Check AVSforum for detailed discussion on what audio capabilities, etc. these models have.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1026390&highlight=insignia

cheddar

At this point it's a no brainer to just wait until black friday sales kick off the Christmas buying season. Plenty of players out there now for around $250 or less without too much searching. With the economy in a tail spin and retail sales off, I'd say that sub 200 bucks is the only place for blu-ray prices to go this Christmas.

Quick Amazon search:

Panasonic DMP-BD-30K $250.82
Sony BDP-S300 $236.99
Samsung BD-P1500 $214.44
Sony BDP-S350 $267.35

Why not just wait until the main sales hit and see what they'll take off the prices on a better player? $199 just doesn't seem like such a good deal on a lesser name player when the main brands are already so close without a black friday sale. Unless you just can't stand to fight the nameless hoards for your prize...

apphd

Chedder, BF and Christmas tied in with the economy and trying to dump the 1.1 profile players is bound to make for some good deals. What I thought added to this was the pre-paid master card rebate. Like I said if you were in the market for a cheap player and a RS SPL meter it might make it worth it. Of course the prices could drop enough for Christmas sales that you could pay cash for both and have a total below $199, probably will, but who knows.

olilugo

what does profile 1.1 means what are the different profiles? what is the latest?

danger boy

you should get profile 2.0. that will be able to handle BD Live.. the latest version of the profiles..

Conradicles

Spend a little extra and get the PlayStation 3...it smokes them all.

cheddar

Profiles just deal with some add on features that early blu-ray players were designed without so more consumer electronics companies could get them to market faster. The core video and audio standards for picture and audio quality have no relation whatsoever to any profiles. However, because of the programming language used to implement the profiles, some very early players had trouble doing things like loading menus, etc. Many of these players received firmware updates so they could at least play the movie correctly.

Basically, for all the hoopla, you get these features over the format launch players:

Profile 1.1 - AKA Bonus View, AKA Picture-in-Picture -- Secondary video window for PIP commentary.

Profile 2.0 - AKA BD-Live, AKA Internet Interactivity -- Ethernet connection and extra memory allows for connection to the internet for interactive features such as games and other content.

Because of hardware limitations (you can't just add an ethernet connection to a player that doesn't have one) players are generally not upgradable via firmware from one profile to the other. However a small number of players were released with the available hardware before the firmware was ready and are upgradeable. The PS3 is unique in being a launch blu-ray player that had all the hardware because it is an internet capable gaming machine. So it was upgraded all the way to Profile 2.0 via firmware. It also received video upscaling and full decoding of the lossless audio formats (added DTS-HD MA -- already did TrueHD) with firmware updates.

Companies are still releasing new Profile 1.1 players because they are obviously cheaper to design and manufacture omitting the internet hardware. These new 1.1 players should not suffer from the early incompatibility issues with menus, etc. that older players suffered from and might be cheaper at retail. Older players that received firmware updates to fix any incompatibility issues might also be on clearance sale and might be a good value. You just have to do your homework so you know what you're getting into with the older players (load times, continuing issues, etc.)

With Profile 2.0 players, you know you're getting a player that has been released relatively recently (the over engineered ps3 being an exception -- it still has greater hardware capacity than newer players in terms of cpu, memory, internet capabilities, etc.). But there are still relatively few of these players out there. So again, you have to do your homework to make sure you're getting the player with the features you want.

But remember, unless you have a player with unresolved compatibility issues with the disk menus, how good the movie looks and sounds has nothing to do with these profiles. You still have to make sure your player has the upscaling quality, blu-ray video quality, and TrueHD/DTS-HD MA decoding and/or bitstreaming capabilities you want. (Even the ps3 lacks bitstreaming lossless audio to an AVR as an option. However, through internal decoding, it plays back the lossless audio just fine over an hdmi connection.) And these core video and audio features were present to varying degrees in even the early players. And they exist in varying degrees in even the latest players. The short answer is that you want all of the above, the longer answer is that you may have to pay more for it.

WilliamM2

I'm waiting for the Oppo BD to be released. Same ABT upscaling as the HD983 for DVD's, will also play DVD-A and SACD. Supposed to be ready around Christmas.

Sami

Samsung BDP1500 for $199, free shipping.

http://www.6ave.com/shop/product.aspx?sku=SAMBDP1500

$101 off with coupon code "AFLSAM198". Don't know if this has 5.1 outputs, I'm holding out myself for one that does and is around $100 mark.

mmadden28

WilliamM2 wrote: »

I'm waiting for the Oppo BD to be released. Same ABT upscaling as the HD983 for DVD's, will also play DVD-A and SACD. Supposed to be ready around Christmas.

I might jump on the Oppo BD if its priced right and also does DVD-A/SACD. I haven't jumped to BD yet. hmmm

doggie750

why bother, PS3 does everything.....60gig! Go on craigslist for deals

zingo

Except the PS3 isn't wife friendly. Mine wanted something that could easily be worked from one universal remote and was as straight forward to use as a regular DVD player.

I would grab that Samsung because of the video quality and their upconversion chip. I have the 1200, and the PQ is amazing.

olilugo

cheddar, Thanks for the great explanation.

Sami

zingo, all those issues aren't really that bad. You can get a IR dongle for it that will take in universal remote commands. Pop in a DVD or BR and it starts playing just like a standalone.

$200 for a basic BR player is still high IMO when you can get PS3 for $250 if you get the Sony CC deal. Granted a standalone has its good points but would your wife enjoy watching all your picture collections on your big screen through PS3, or your vacation or family videos? My wife really didn't care for PS3 when I got one but once I showed what you can do with it she liked it. Just a thought, PS3 really is worth the money if you like to use it for more than just movies (even if you don't play games).

ben62670

mmadden28 wrote: »

I might jump on the Oppo BD if its priced right and also does DVD-A/SACD. I haven't jumped to BD yet. hmmm

I'll agree with you and William on something that plays SACD too. It has to have a great analog section though, and I hear the OPPO is lacking in that department despite reviews:(

WilliamM2

ben62670 wrote: »

I'll agree with you and William on something that plays SACD too. It has to have a great analog section though, and I hear the OPPO is lacking in that department despite reviews:(

You have opinions/reviews of a player that isn't out yet?

The reviews of all their previous players have actually been quite good. One of them is even on the Stereophile recommended components list, not that it really matters. I'll be sending pure DSD over HDMI, as I am currently doing, so it's a moot point for me.

ben62670

WilliamM2 wrote: »

You have opinions/reviews of a player that isn't out yet?

My comment was pertaining to past players. From what I have heard from people that have actually owned, or heard first hand they stated the players analog section was fairly weak, but the video was very good.

I-SIG

Is there ever going to be Blu-Ray Audio?

Wes

ben62670

They are having a hard enough time making SACD live:( I think Blue Ray audio is kinda out.

Danny Tse

I-SIG wrote: »

Is there ever going to be Blu-Ray Audio?

There're a couple of Blu-ray Audio titles released, but it's far from overtaking SACD....

ben62670 wrote: »

They are having a hard enough time making SACD live:( I think Blue Ray audio is kinda out.

SACD is about to achive its 5,500th title....and next year will be the format's 10th anniversary.

I-SIG

Thanks, guys. I just thought that since BR won the HD battle there was a chance for dedicated BRaudio stuff and I might look pretty smart not having gotten into SACD.

Wes

Ron Temple

ben62670 wrote: »

My comment was pertaining to past players. From what I have heard from people that have actually owned, or heard first hand they stated the players analog section was fairly weak, but the video was very good.

The Oppo BD player is going to have the same analog section and upscaling abilities as their flagship 983 DVD player. The question for me is where will it be priced. The 983 is $400. If the BD player comes in under $500, I'll sell my Oppo and Sony and jump on board, but if it's $600 or higher, I'll stand pat.

hockeyboy

This is a great deal on a very fine player. I own two and am very happy with them.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B0014H16V0/ref=pd_luc_mri?%5Fencoding=UTF8&m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&v=glance

WilliamM2

hockeyboy wrote: »

This is a great deal on a very fine player. I own two and am very happy with them.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B0014H16V0/ref=pd_luc_mri?%5Fencoding=UTF8&m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&v=glance

If you read up a couple of posts, 6th Ave. has it for even less. It's tempting, but I'm hoping some of the new players, like the Oppo, will get rid of the ridiculous load times the current players have.

cheddar

I-SIG wrote: »

Thanks, guys. I just thought that since BR won the HD battle there was a chance for dedicated BRaudio stuff and I might look pretty smart not having gotten into SACD.

Wes

Well, blu-ray pcm specs compare well with DVD-Audio.

DVD-A specification
5.1 channels at 24-bit 96 kHz
stereo at 24-bit 192 kHz

Blu-ray specification
7.1 channels at 24-bit 96 kHz
stereo at 24-bit 192 kHz

SACD is a slightly different beast because of DSD.

But it would seem that at some point, somebody will wake up to the fact that there are now an increasing number of trojan horse blu-ray players reaching the mass market that can meet or exceed the pcm specs of DVD-Audio. And the owners just might buy up all those great DVD-A and SACD albums if you only took the masters and dropped them on a blu-ray disk instead...

cheddar

Edit: IIRC, Blu-ray is capable of 7.1 channels at 24-bit 192 kHz, but some early players lacked the processing power that may be needed to play such a beast. The most common player, the ps3, does have the needed horsepower, though. And new players going forward should be able to meet this standard...

Here's an example of a blu-ray audio disk if anyone wants to give it a spin...

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001DDY6US?tag=bluray-031-20

mmadden28

I-SIG wrote: »

Thanks, guys. I just thought that since BR won the HD battle there was a chance for dedicated BRaudio stuff and I might look pretty smart not having gotten into SACD.

Wes

I would imagine that the DTS-HD-MA and DD-TrueHD would be the way to go for a dedicated audio format--right?
Already a high definition audio format-can't get much better than an exact replica of the studio master can you? Isn't Bluray just the package holding it all? Since HD-DVD also had the same formats available. ???

cheddar

mmadden28 wrote: »

I would imagine that the DTS-HD-MA and DD-TrueHD would be the way to go for a dedicated audio format--right?
Already a high definition audio format-can't get much better than an exact replica of the studio master can you? Isn't Bluray just the package holding it all? Since HD-DVD also had the same formats available. ???

I think one of the biggest barriers to audio only disks will be production costs and the need to drive prices lower. DTS-HD MA and TrueHD require fees to use. Remember these are only required in the first place to compress the original PCM file to take up less disk space. Since the blu-ray disk is designed to hold a much larger video file, I would imagine that there is no need to compress the file to save disk space with an audio only disk. There are already blu-rays with TrueHD tracks, video for the movie, AND an uncompressed LPCM track (the often forgotten third lossless option) included on the disk.

So you can't get much better than the original PCM track (DTS-HD MA and TrueHD uncompress to PCM) and you have the benefit of no fees to Dolby and DTS.