Help with tuning the Pioneer deh-p800prs HU

arun1963

Hi,


looking for someone who has this head unit. Need your opinion on the unit and your help with the following:

1. Setting TA: tried following instructions in the booklet but getting stuck becoz the HU does not switch off when the source btn is kept pressed. It goes into demo mode.

2. Used the factory setting of TA just to see the effect. The sound in the drivers seat comes on axis but the sound becomes muted and somewhat muffled ie sound looses its openness. Is this the way its supposed to sound?

3. I earlier had a DEH p7000 (local variant equivalent) and although that had fewer bells and whistles the sound was sweeter. The sound from the 800 is on the brighter side. Tried using the equaliser etc.......

4. Loudness control : My older unit had three step setting for loudness lo-hi, the booklet for the 800 says the unit has three settings but I cant get the lo-hi settings when I select loudness. Its fixed on one setting (hi I think).

5. Under the sub woofer settings there are 6-7 differnt options LPF / HPF / for front and back, slope adjustments etc etc. I dont have a sub. Do I keep the sub off or can I engage the sub setting and teak the sound?

Basically I want the set up to give me a sweet sound that I had from my older HU. Any tips / advise would be appreciated.

Following equipment is installed

HU : Pioneer deh-p800prs
Amp : PA 500.4
Front : MMC 6500 comp
Rear : MMC 690 6x9

Thanks in advance

dirthog

arun1963 wrote: »

Hi,


looking for someone who has this head unit. Need your opinion on the unit and your help with the following:

1. Setting TA: tried following instructions in the booklet but getting stuck becoz the HU does not switch off when the source btn is kept pressed. It goes into demo mode.

Turn demo mode off. You have to get into the menu when the deck is off. When off or in demo mode push and hold the right knob. This will open settings for demo mode, reverse mode, time and more.

Measure how far each speaker is then set the TA to those numbers. Then mute the rears and change the right setting up and down until it sounds the best and the singer is coming from the middle of your car.

Don't really have tips for setting the rear TA. I run in network mode without rear speakers.

2. Used the factory setting of TA just to see the effect. The sound in the drivers seat comes on axis but the sound becomes muted and somewhat muffled ie sound looses its openness. Is this the way its supposed to sound?

No you have a long way to go with tuning.

3. I earlier had a DEH p7000 (local variant equivalent) and although that had fewer bells and whistles the sound was sweeter. The sound from the 800 is on the brighter side. Tried using the equaliser etc.......

If you want I can email you some tuning sheets that will give you a good idea of what frequency to cut and what to boost. Let me know.

4. Loudness control : My older unit had three step setting for loudness lo-hi, the booklet for the 800 says the unit has three settings but I cant get the lo-hi settings when I select loudness. Its fixed on one setting (hi I think).

It's on or off then push the knob left or right to change hi-low. You should be able to see a circle on the right with four triangles/arrows. If they are filled in you can use them to change settings.

Don't use the loudness, all it's doing is boosting low and higher frequencies. Keep tuning everything until it starts to sound better.

5. Under the sub woofer settings there are 6-7 differnt options LPF / HPF / for front and back, slope adjustments etc etc. I dont have a sub. Do I keep the sub off or can I engage the sub setting and teak the sound?

Turn sub off.B]

Basically I want the set up to give me a sweet sound that I had from my older HU. Any tips / advise would be appreciated.

Following equipment is installed

HU : Pioneer deh-p800prs
Amp : PA 500.4
Front : MMC 6500 comp
Rear : MMC 690 6x9

Thanks in advance

Use the auto tuning mic for a quick fix on decent sound. Place the mic in the middle of your head rest with a belt. Then move the seat up so the mic is in the middle of where your ears would be if you were sitting in it.

I think it's a position to start. From there you can tweak it to make it sound better. If you're good at tuning you can do a way better job then the 800.

arun1963

Hi,

Thanks for your reply.

1. Time Alignment : Ok got it now. Did a trial and while there is uniform sound in the car, I still feel I am losing some mid and high frequencies once I engage the TA. These can be dialed back via the EQ but what do I do about the loss of db's? With TA engaged the sound is definately lower.........and its not as open......am I doing something wrong?

2. The HU has a setting for POSI ie position. I diid the TA with all four seats selected on the POSI setting. Is that correct? Should the TA be done only with drivers seat selected?

3. Would love to have your EQ setting sheets. You can mail them here or at dhawan.arun@gmail.com tks a ton in advance.

4. I have the momo's comps in front HPF'd at 80hz thru the HU. What iis diff between doing the HPF from the HU vs the Amp? If any.

5. The HU has the option of turing the HU's amp off whcih I have engaged and I think the sound is cleaner now.

My current eq setting which sound decent is as follows:

20hz : -3
31.5hz : -3
50 hz : -2
80 hz : -1
125 hz : -1
200 hz : 0
315 hz : 0
500 hz : 0
800 hz : -2
1.25 khz : 0
2 & 3.15 khz : 1
5khz : -2
8 kz: -2
12.5khz: -1
20 khz : -3

The mids are fine. On the low I could use more TIGHT bass not boomy, what do I dial in?
on the highs I could use some more clarity but deffinately not from the 5 or 8khz as increasing either muddies the sound......

Sorry for bombarding you with so many questions :-)

Appreciate yr help

dirthog

arun1963 wrote: »

Hi,

Thanks for your reply.

1. Time Alignment : Ok got it now. Did a trial and while there is uniform sound in the car, I still feel I am losing some mid and high frequencies once I engage the TA. These can be dialed back via the EQ but what do I do about the loss of db's? With TA engaged the sound is definately lower.........and its not as open......am I doing something wrong?

Hard to say, but maybe adjust your gains up a little.

2. The HU has a setting for POSI ie position. I diid the TA with all four seats selected on the POSI setting. Is that correct? Should the TA be done only with drivers seat selected?

If you have all four seats selected, I believe your TA is turned off. When you have just the driver position selected then you can adjust the TA.

3. Would love to have your EQ setting sheets. You can mail them here or at dhawan.arun@gmail.com tks a ton in advance.

I will do that.

4. I have the momo's comps in front HPF'd at 80hz thru the HU. What iis diff between doing the HPF from the HU vs the Amp? If any.

I would use the HU because it's more accurate, if your amp just has the dial type of crossover. If your amp has a digital crossover then It's pretty much the same.

I would turn the crossover higher on the amp to at least 200HZ. Then just use the HU since you can adjust it from the drivers seat.

5. The HU has the option of turing the HU's amp off whcih I have engaged and I think the sound is cleaner now.

If your only using the preouts then definitely turn that HU's amp off and it should sound a little cleaner.

My current eq setting which sound decent is as follows:

20hz : -3
31.5hz : -3
50 hz : -2
80 hz : -1
125 hz : -1
200 hz : 0
315 hz : 0
500 hz : 0
800 hz : -2
1.25 khz : 0
2 & 3.15 khz : 1
5khz : -2
8 kz: -2
12.5khz: -1
20 khz : -3

The mids are fine. On the low I could use more TIGHT bass not boomy, what do I dial in?

on the highs I could use some more clarity but deffinately not from the 5 or 8khz as increasing either muddies the sound......

My tuning sheets will help tell you what frequencies affect what..


Sorry for bombarding you with so many questions :-)

That's what this forum is for.

Appreciate yr help

Hope this helps.

arun1963

Hi,

Thanks for the tuning sheets. They were of great help. I finally figured out the TA as well so now the TA sounds great and thanks to proper eq setting the sound is crystal clear. Listening to Sarah Mclachlan's 'Uphill Battle' from Touch, gives goose bumps :-)

All the hours spent tweaking and tinkering has confirmed two things in my mind. Would appreciate your comments.

1. The momo's upfront and the 6x9 at the back need diff eq levels to sound the best. Since I can't eq front and back independantly (can only do left and right......dont see the logic in that) the only solution I see is to replace the 6x9 at the back with momos. In any case I prefer the momo sound. Approx cost $ 300. I just bought the 6x9 a month back :mad:.......6x9 will now go in the wifes car.

2. Neither the momos nor the 6x9 are designed to deliver the punch bass 25-80hz. While the rest of the sound is clean this punch is missing. Hence addition of sub with mono amp. Approx cost $ 475 for a polk mono amp and 10" sub.

3. As is I am looking at an expense of $750. Should I go this route or should I use this money to replace the 6x9 with the SR6500. ie sr up front momos at the back and then wait till I have some spare cash to add the sub.



The SQ chase is addictive and expensive as hell............

Rgds
Arun

eloplayspolo

i say scratch the real fill and just get a sub

arun1963

Your setup is basically what I am thinking about. 2pairs momos plus a sub. How does it sound?

killerb

eloplayspolo wrote: »

i say scratch the real fill and just get a sub

i agree totally.

dirthog

arun1963 wrote: »

Hi,

1. The momo's upfront and the 6x9 at the back need diff eq levels to sound the best. Since I can't eq front and back independantly (can only do left and right......dont see the logic in that) the only solution I see is to replace the 6x9 at the back with momos. In any case I prefer the momo sound. Approx cost $ 300. I just bought the 6x9 a month back :mad:.......6x9 will now go in the wifes car.

I would also say don't use the rear speakers. If you just want the most sound you can get just turn the rears down a little bit with your deck and run with that.

If your goal is more in line with mine then you're trying to achieve a good sound stage just like if you went to a concert. The singer should at least sound like he/she is coming from the middle of your car between the rear view mirror and your dash. If you can get the stage to move back so the singer is more over the hood that's good, further away is usually better. Stage left should be at your left a-pillar or further out if you can achieve it, usually it is hard to achieve, and the same for right stage. The bass is almost always just to the left or right behind the singer and drums should sound like they are even further back.

When you use rear speakers it tends to pull the stage behind you. Some do use rear fill to their advantage but the settings are completely different and can get very complicated. I don't have any experience with rear fill but if you're interested in learning more I can point you to another forum that goes very in depth about it.

2. Neither the momos nor the 6x9 are designed to deliver the punch bass 25-80hz. While the rest of the sound is clean this punch is missing. Hence addition of sub with mono amp. Approx cost $ 475 for a polk mono amp and 10
" sub.

If you have the room a 12" will play lower than a 10". The SR 12" sub can play very deep compared to some other 12"s

3. As is I am looking at an expense of $750. Should I go this route or should I use this money to replace the 6x9 with the SR6500. ie sr up front momos at the back and then wait till I have some spare cash to add the sub.

I would go with a sub before getting the SR's. It's going to make a bigger difference. Once you get the SR's you can use the momo's later to experiment with rear fill if you want, but I'm guessing you'll end up selling the momo's to help pay for the 6500 or make your wife happy and put them in her car





The SQ chase is addictive and expensive as hell............

Very! If you haven't started to deaden your car expect it to be a lot more expensive then you're guessing. Deadening my doors was the biggest difference so far. It will help with your imaging, mid bass output and cut out a lot of rattles coming from the doors.

Rgds
Arun

I just thought about this but I also have some tuning CD's that will help too.

arun1963

I would also say don't use the rear speakers. If you just want the most sound you can get just turn the rears down a little bit with your deck and run with that.

will turn gain down on the back channel. Currently front at 12 and back at 11 will turn back to 9:30.

If your goal is more in line with mine then you're trying to achieve a good sound stage just like if you went to a concert. The singer should at least sound like he/she is coming from the middle of your car between the rear view mirror and your dash. If you can get the stage to move back so the singer is more over the hood that's good, further away is usually better. Stage left should be at your left a-pillar or further out if you can achieve it, usually it is hard to achieve, and the same for right stage. The bass is almost always just to the left or right behind the singer and drums should sound like they are even further back.

The vocals come from dash level maybe 4-5 inches higher. Only some songs, slower numbers, ones where vocal are highlighted get the depth.

Feel like bit of a dodo. Concept so far was to use TA, put fader at 0 and then play with the eq. Step 1 change the gains, step 2 fader to front 5, then use the eq.

When you use rear speakers it tends to pull the stage behind you. Some do use rear fill to their advantage but the settings are completely different and can get very complicated. I don't have any experience with rear fill but if you're interested in learning more I can point you to another forum that goes very in depth about it.

Very true. Can never eq the momo's and 6x9 to sound the same.
2.

If you have the room a 12" will play lower than a 10". The SR 12" sub can play very deep compared to some other 12"s

Installing a 12" momo with a kenwood 9304 500rms mono. Just out of curiosity the sub comes with single and double voice coil, whats the diff? In any case the dealer only has the single coil.


I would go with a sub before getting the SR's. It's going to make a bigger difference. Once you get the SR's you can use the momo's later to experiment with rear fill if you want, but I'm guessing you'll end up selling the momo's to help pay for the 6500 or make your wife happy and put them in her car





The SQ chase is addictive and expensive as hell............

Very! If you haven't started to deaden your car expect it to be a lot more expensive then you're guessing. Deadening my doors was the biggest difference so far. It will help with your imaging, mid bass output and cut out a lot of rattles coming from the doors.

[IThe front doors were deadened when I put the momos in front. However, I listen to music parked in the drive and my god what a diff than hearing it while I drive. Hence if I could deaden the floor and the under dash ....... but that would be expensive. In any case you cant do anything about the noise that comes in thru the glass.....

Will let you know how it turns out.

Take care ][/I]

dirthog

arun1963 wrote: »

The vocals come from dash level maybe 4-5 inches higher. Only some songs, slower numbers, ones where vocal are highlighted get the depth.

Feel like bit of a dodo. Concept so far was to use TA, put fader at 0 and then play with the eq. Step 1 change the gains, step 2 fader to front 5, then use the eq.

I would try to leave the fader at 0


Installing a 12" momo with a kenwood 9304 500rms mono. Just out of curiosity the sub comes with single and double voice coil, whats the diff? In any case the dealer only has the single coil.

The difference between them is using a single voice coil sub will run at 4ohms.

Dual voice coil sub can run at 2ohms or 8ohms depending on how you wire it.




The front doors were deadened when I put the momos in front. However, I listen to music parked in the drive and my god what a diff than hearing it while I drive. Hence if I could deaden the floor and the under dash ....... but that would be expensive. In any case you cant do anything about the noise that comes in thru the glass.....

Deadener is not good at blocking noise. It's made to lower the resonant frequency of what you're applying it to.

I would look into other ways to quite your ride.

arun1963

Hi Dan,

1. Got the 12" momo sub installed with the 400.1 polk mono amp. Tre amp is RMS 200W. Tried a Kenwood amp rated at 500 RMS and it was no match for the lower RMS polk???? The sub is in a ported 1.3 cuft enclosure. Dealer only had ported boxes I was ideally looking for a sealed enclosure at 0.88 cuft as recomended.

2. Based on above I think I may be underpowering the and the enclosure may be too big.

3. The sub is cut off at 80hz with a 18 db/octave and the front and rear speakers are cut off at 80hz 12 db/ocatve.

LISTENING RESULTS :

Wow! What a diff the sub makes. I can now hear, feel and tune frequencies from 20hz-16khz. 20hz is trned down from the HU as this makes the bass muddy. Maybe a factor of under power and larger than required enclosure.

Using the HPF on front and rears makes the speakers much cleaner and the bass is 'surround'. Using TA I have set the stage to the left front speaker as you mentioned but the level has fallen. The sound which used to earlier come from 3-4" above the dash now sound like it is 3-4" below the dash.

I think if I moved the tweeters up the A pillar it would raise the sound stage. Currently the the tweeters are at the base of the A pillar in stock location. When I tried to mov e this I realised that the installer had epoxy'd the the tweeter into the stock location...........:mad: Will it help if I could raise the tweeter level? I think this is the last bit of tweaking I need to do and am very frustrated with the current situation. Any suggestions?

Deadening : What I used in the front doors was cheap commercial grade dampner. This was applied around the mid, and over the complete door. What other way iis there to deaden the doors?

Also would like to deaden the entire floor board starting from under the dash and going to the back seat floorboard, what is the best way to do it and how much will it cost?

As always thanks in advance.

Rgds
Arun

dirthog

arun1963 wrote: »

Hi Dan,

1. Got the 12" momo sub installed with the 400.1 polk mono amp. Tre amp is RMS 200W. Tried a Kenwood amp rated at 500 RMS and it was no match for the lower RMS polk???? The sub is in a ported 1.3 cuft enclosure. Dealer only had ported boxes I was ideally looking for a sealed enclosure at 0.88 cuft as recomended.

2. Based on above I think I may be underpowering the and the enclosure may be too big.

The amp is 300 watts, I believe. That might not be enough but I would think it is, hard to say. I didn't see specs for a ported enclosure, I would call polk to see what they recommend. That should give you a good idea if you want to keep that ported box.

I have always built my own sealed enclosure and the sr 12" is not recommend for ported enclosures.

3. The sub is cut off at 80hz with a 18 db/octave and the front and rear speakers are cut off at 80hz 12 db/ocatve.

Thats a good place to start. Before adjusting eq play with your crossover slopes and points. Once you get it to sound the best with just your crossovers level match your drivers, then eq.



Wow! What a diff the sub makes. I can now hear, feel and tune frequencies from 20hz-16khz. 20hz is trned down from the HU as this makes the bass muddy. Maybe a factor of under power and larger than required enclosure.

I doubt it's because of under powering. I'm guessing cabin gain and most likely the ported enclosure. A ported enclosure needs to have the correct box volume and port volume/length also plays a roll. If the box is too big the sub might not have enough suspension to stop from over excursion.

Using the HPF on front and rears makes the speakers much cleaner and the bass is 'surround'. Using TA I have set the stage to the left front speaker as you mentioned but the level has fallen. The sound which used to earlier come from 3-4" above the dash now sound like it is 3-4" below the dash.

Is the sub the only change you've made?

Moving your tweeters up might help. I have had my tweeters in the a pillar, corners of the dash and currently just under my dash above my mid. Even with the tweeter down there I still have a good stage height. Everything is also more coherint. I was never able to get to where I'm at when the tweeters were in the other two locations.

Your ears are good a locating things from left to right but height is harder.

I think if I moved the tweeters up the A pillar it would raise the sound stage. Currently the the tweeters are at the base of the A pillar in stock location. When I tried to mov e this I realised that the installer had epoxy'd the the tweeter into the stock location...........:mad: Will it help if I could raise the tweeter level? I think this is the last bit of tweaking I need to do and am very frustrated with the current situation. Any suggestions?

Are you using a passive crossover or are you active? This may get more complicated before it gets easier.

Deadening : What I used in the front doors was cheap commercial grade dampner. This was applied around the mid, and over the complete door. What other way is there to deaden the doors?

This is how I did mine. I put 2 layers on the entire outside part of the door. Just behind the mid I put 5 layers and tapered each layer out further. So the middle of the door has 3 layers. Furthest part of the door away from the mid has 2 layers. I put 1 layer of closed cell Ensolite foam on top of all the deadener and just behind the mid I put 1sqft of open cell eggshell foam( to prevent back waves from bouncing back into the mid).

On this inner door metal which is under the door card. I put one layer on the whole door and 3 layers around the mids MDF speaker ring. I sealed one of the bigger holes with Plexiglas. I used a lot of silicon caulk to seal it and to make sure the glass wouldn't make noise rattling again the metal. I also covered that with the layers of deadener. On top of everything I put a layer of Ensolite foam to prevent noise created by the door card and deadener.

I will try to get pictures

Also would like to deaden the entire floor board starting from under the dash and going to the back seat floorboard, what is the best way to do it and how much will it cost?

Do the tap test first to make sure you need deadener. Otherwise it will be a waste of time and money.

Tap on one of your quarter panels or your trunk lid. It will sound like you're just hitting metal. Now tap on metal where you have applied deadener. Hear the difference?

Now tap on metal that has bends or creases. A good place to find this is your trunk floor. It will not make the same noise as your trunk lid. The floor is usually one of the better deadened spots.

The best place to apply deadener is large flat metal areas with no support. If the metal has bends and creases already it's not as important.

You would make better use of the deadener if you applied it to your doors. You can never have enough deadener on you doors, unless you can't get the door card back on.:D

Here's a link to a great deadener products and good guy. Customer service is the best.

http://www.raamaudio.com/cgi-bin/index.cgi?p=pr

dirthog

Picture of the door not sealed and there's no opencell foam yet.
<a href="http://s239.photobucket.com/albums/ff99/dirthogg/?action=view&current=Doornotsealed.jpg&quot; target="_blank"><img src="http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff99/dirthogg/Doornotsealed.jpg&quot; border="0" alt="Unsealed Door"></a>

I have added another MDF ring on top of this one to bring the driver closer to the door.
<a href="http://s239.photobucket.com/albums/ff99/dirthogg/?action=view&current=mdfringclay.jpg&quot; target="_blank"><img src="http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff99/dirthogg/mdfringclay.jpg&quot; border="0" alt="MDF Baffle"></a>

Plexiglass with the silicon.
<a href="http://s239.photobucket.com/albums/ff99/dirthogg/?action=view&current=Sealeddoorupclose.jpg&quot; target="_blank"><img src="http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff99/dirthogg/Sealeddoorupclose.jpg&quot; border="0" alt="Caulk &amp; Plexi glass"></a>

1sty

I know this is an old thread but can anyone with this deck tell me if when set to a 3-way mode if:

The speaker outputs are still active and what crossovers if any effect them?

Can the HP filter of the high freq channels be set to pass, or zero slope or do they have to be set at 1.2Khz or higher?

Can you EQ separately for the left and the right channels or is there just one summed EQ?

arun1963

I know this is an old thread but can anyone with this deck tell me if when set to a 3-way mode if:

The speaker outputs are still active and what crossovers if any effect them? With the xovers in the path you are still passive.

Can the HP filter of the high freq channels be set to pass, or zero slope or do they have to be set at 1.2Khz or higher? If you were active and you tried to do this, you would blow your tweets. With your current settings even if you did this the xover would still split the signal going to the tweet.

Can you EQ separately for the left and the right channels or is there just one summed EQ? With this head unit you can set everything independently for left and right, not just the eq. At each setting, filters / slopes / eq you have to keep the multi control knob pressed for a bit. It will then split into l/r independent control mode. You will have to do this for each variable.

I would suggest that you go back to std mode and with the independent l/r control, you first set your sound stage. By doing this you would have learnt how to use all the variables at your disposal and more importantly how they relate to and affect each other. Then u can go active. Just my $0.02.

1sty

I dot think you understood my questions but I appreciate the response.
I am asking for an idea of this units flexibility and not necessarily a certain setup.
So rather I am running my speakers active or passive doesn't really matter in regards to the questions.

Let me try to clarify:
For the speaker outputs of the head unit, once the x-overs are activated, do the speaker level outputs of the deck fallow those X-over settings or do they stay full range in the decks 3-way mode?
I would assume that they will fallow what ever the RCAs are doing frequency wise.

Once the head unit is set to the 3-way mode the manual shows that the RCAs that become the high frequency outputs (clearly meant for the tweeter channels) are always active and can only go down to 1.2khz. I am wondering if this can be used as a full range channel once in the 3-way configuration of the deck?
Please ignore if at surface level if this doesn't sounds like a good idea. I just want to know if the deck is capable of it.

arun1963

Trace the signal from your HU to your speakers and see what happens. That will answer all your questions.

For the speaker outputs of the head unit, once the x-overs are activated, do the speaker level outputs of the deck fallow those X-over settings or do they stay full range in the decks 3-way mode?

You have the HU in active mode so it is sending a signal to both the mono and 4ch amp (front and rear) telling the amps that this is xover point for the sub, this is the hp/bp points for the mids and this is the hp for the tweets. Moreover you would also specify the slopes for all these xover values. The xover point is only valid if you have selected a slope value other than all pass.

Assuming the above, lets look at your amp. You have not mentioned if you have selected hp/lp at your amps or if they are ap (all pass) assuming they are ap, the signal would continue to the next point which is your xover. Here the xover would split the signal at the selected freq. Most xovers seperate mids and highs at 2.5-3khz. So everything below this would go to your mids and everything above to your tweets. So you could have set the tweeter hpf at 5khz in active mode from the hu, but the xover will still look to split the signal at 2.5-3khz range. So apart from adding a whole lot of sibilance you wouldnt be doing much.

Once the head unit is set to the 3-way mode the manual shows that the RCAs that become the high frequency outputs (clearly meant for the tweeter channels) are always active and can only go down to 1.2khz. I am wondering if this can be used as a full range channel once in the 3-way configuration of the deck?

NO you cannot use your tweets as full range speakers. There is a major physical diff between cones that are supposed to vibrate at 20-2,000 hz and those that are optimised for 2khz-20khz. One requires fewer cycles but greater excursion and the other requires higher cycles but much lower excursion. You will blow your tweet if you try to run it full range.

It would help if you gave some idea on your setup, fronts, rears, amps, subs etc.

If I were you I would do the following:

1. Disconnect the rears if ure running them
2. Bi-amp the comps-you can run the mids full range if you have decent comps, but xovers that dont allow bi-amping
3, Attempt to set the soundstage......get as far as you can
4. Go Active.

Sorry, it may not be what you wanted to hear but I stick to my original advise. Seek alternate opinion here if you feel I'm missing the point.

dirthog

The speaker outputs (as in not the RCA's?) will still push power unless you tell the deck to turn off the internal amp. Any setting that you change for crossover and level will effect the speaker output and RCA output the same.

You cannot pass the tweeter crossover, the smallest slope is 6db. The mids can be passed for high and low. The subs smallest slope is 12db.

You can adjust the EQ separately in 3 way mode(Network Mode) or Std mode.

Why can't you set it to std mode to get the full range?

1sty

dirthog wrote: »

The speaker outputs (as in not the RCA's?) will still push power unless you tell the deck to turn off the internal amp. Any setting that you change for crossover and level will effect the speaker output and RCA output the same.

You cannot pass the tweeter crossover, the smallest slope is 6db. The mids can be passed for high and low. The subs smallest slope is 12db.

You can adjust the EQ separately in 3 way mode(Network Mode) or Std mode.

Why can't you set it to std mode to get the full range?

In full range mode it appears you loose the ability to bandpass one of the RCA outputs.

What I really want is a way to get one set of RCAs that is low pass and independently level controlled from the deck.
One set this is band passable from the head unit.
A third set that is a full range output.

A lot of this again just comes down to ensure I know what the deck can do.

1sty

arun1963, I really appreciate your time in the response, but I think you are misunderstanding my questions and intentions. Trust me I am more then experienced in audio in general.
I was an MECP certified car audio installer and actively installed for tweeter for 3-years.
I am a CTS-D certified audio visual system designer and the design and implementation of everything from classroom systems to large scale auditoriums is my full time job.
I also moderate an audio forum so I know what its like when you see something that at surface level looks like an uneducated person about to make a big mistake.

So the concepts of tweeters vs woofers are something I very well understand. Not only frequency response but phase, polar patterns, beaming/pattern control, efficiency and so on.
What I am asking here is nothing that most typically people would do but for the setup I am attempting to sort out, I will need a lot of flexibility in the crossovers of a deck as I may not be able to do what I need the system to do with just my amplifiers. Just because I am asking about the High pass channel of this deck does not mean that it will be used for tweeters. In fact it would be spliced to power the rear speakers full range for my son when he is along for the ride as well as going to my JL amp that will apply an active HP filter.

Running all active is not really that easy either as I have essentially a 5-way (5 unigue sound ranges) for this car.
1-Lows of about 90hz and down to my subs
2-Midbass to my polk SR mids of about 63hz-250 to 500 hz (to be deteremined)
3-Mids to either some dayton audio RS100s or to some Fostex FF85Ks (using the 85Ks I may even ditch the tweeters)
4-High to my SR tweeters.
5-Full range o possibly a splice of #3 to my rears via the factory amplifier.

Also consider the level I am attempting here and then that on average I keep a system in tact for 6 months max before I come up with another way to waste my time for a bit. So flexibility is very important to me and buying new, and expensive amplifiers to take care of these things may not be possible.

dirthog

1sty wrote: »

In full range mode it appears you loose the ability to bandpass one of the RCA outputs.

What I really want is a way to get one set of RCAs that is low pass and independently level controlled from the deck.
One set this is band passable from the head unit.
A third set that is a full range output.

A lot of this again just comes down to ensure I know what the deck can do.

Can't be done with this deck. The full range out put and band passable capability are on the same RCA. The other two RCA's have minimum slopes.

cliff257

dirthog, read your posts from earlier. I believe you might have sent out a baseline tuning sheet to someone for this unit. Could i get one of those? Just got this unit and planning on running my 6500's active.

If you have any advise you havent given would be nice.

Thanks

cliff257

I cant pm or I would be asking these question that way. Sorry to be hacking the thread but i figured these parameters would be good for the thread.

When in network mode is the low my sub? Or should it be part of a three way door setup? Kinda confused what to do with the Low setting in network mode.

Again thanks

arun1963

hi cliff,

For some reason I can't upload my settings file here. If you send me a mail at dhawan.arun@gmail.com I'll send you a reply with the attachment.

However, the settings are based on the sound put out by my speakers in my cars interior, the way my speakers are installed and my seating position. What I'm saying is that, you should only use these only as a guideline and then tune and see what suits your setup best.

There are three areas in tuning that you should know about. xover/gain/slope setting, time alignment and equalisation. Its important to understand the basics of each and then you can take it on from there. With sound,everything is linked. Eg Changing the slopes or xover points may require you to go back to the eq and change some settings in order to maintain the balance.

When in network mode is the low my sub? Or should it be part of a three way door setup? Kinda confused what to do with the Low setting in network mode.

In network mode i.e. no xovers in the path, yes low is the sub. Actually even in std mode its the sub.

If good imaging and staging is your goal you may want to set the sub LPF between either 50-63hz on a 30/36db slope. If however, you just want a nice punchy sound with a bit of boom, you can try 80hz. I would'nt go any higher, if quality of sound matters. The HPF for the mid would be set at the same frequency at a 24db slope that is the max the hu gives.

cliff257

Thanks arun email me at rcdean257@yahoo.com if you could.

So again you guys are telling me that this unit will do everything i need it to do to go active? I really would like to have 32 bands of eq but since i dont compete i feel it might be redundent. Any thoughts?

Thanks again

arun1963

If you are not competing and yet want to set a decent stage and imaging the p-880 is a good all in 1 solution. I am running mine in active mode.

You may also want to consider starting off in passive mode with the xovers and then switch to active once you have settled in with the various functions and how they inter-relate.

Sent you the mail.

cliff257

Thanks I will use it as a starting point but can you give me some advise on the ta levels. Your chart show actual distance and the ta value. Can you explain?

I'm figuring out that the ta adjustment helps with imaging. Can you guys give me a couple of different senarios for different ta adjustments and what the differences do for the imaging?

Thanks

arun1963

Time Alignment:

In your car the 4 drivers (components) plus the sub are all at varying distances from you. So you would hear your nearest speaker first and the one furthest, last. For a true stereo effect, like in a 2ch home rig, you would need to be equidistance from both speakers so that you hear both speakers together. In a car environment this is not possible. Time alignment lets you correct this situation.

By setting the sub at actual distance and then delaying the other 4 drivers around the sub, you would first hear the sub followed by two mids together and lastly the two tweets together. Your brain locates the sound source based on what it hears last, in this case the tweets. This would also raise your sound stage.

On my sheet, the actual distance is the measured distance from my seating position to each driver. The TA values are what I have set at the hu.

To achieve accurate staging and a stable image the frequencies need to be balaced down the centre of your car. The stage would then spread across the top of your dash and sound core would be placed around the rear view mirror on your windshield. This is from an amature sq level. Folks like Mac who compete, would have a much greater depth to the stage. Hence the sound would focus up beyond the windscreen, somewhere over the hood.

To achieve this centering of frequencies you would use your TA and independent eq for left and right channel. You would equalise each frequency that you control and then level match them to get the right balance.

TA is most critical for frequencies upto 500hz. For frequencies between 500hz-1khz both TA and eq are equally important. For frequencies above 1khz the centering and focusing is largely based on eq. This is based on the way our ears and brain process the sound.

cliff257

recommend me a tuning cd if you could.

dirthog

cliff257 wrote: »

recommend me a tuning cd if you could.

Go to this forum and search. Most of them you can download with a link.

diymobileaudio.com